| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? 07:12 - Aug 3 with 6947 views | NthQldITFC |
The Met Office is going to announce today that this July in England has seen less than half of the rainfall of the previous record driest July in the last 190 years.
Why aren't YOU talking about climate change?
It's the biggest issue we face. It's the biggest issue our children face.
Why aren't YOU talking about climate change?
Food prices are going to reflect this imminently, but that's only the beginning.
Why aren't YOU talking about climate change?
We can still make a difference, but we need to get talking.
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| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:02 - Aug 4 with 573 views | grow_our_own |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 15:26 - Aug 4 by Kropotkin123 |
This is why I don't talk about it, not because what you are saying is wrong, but to make one generalized point, which is true, makes you open to true caveats that I don't have the time or patience to keep coming back to.
I'm not saying we shouldn't do our part. I've even given a link to how people can turn their energy bills into green energy, said that transport is the next big thing for us to make massive dents into that 0.8%. There is much more aside.
But it remains true that we can't be doing this in isolation. We do need to point the finger at the US, even though they reduced over that time because they still vote in climate change deniers. They pull out of agreements. A lot of their progress is due to California setting standards that other states are obligated to follow. Eg, they put in car efficiency rules, car manufacturers want access to that market, so they make more efficient cars. States that don't care, have to buy those more efficient cars because the car manufacturers aren't making one efficient model and one inefficient model.
We do need to point the finger at China. China manufacturers for the world. It is our contribution in a different space.
It is not that we are small, so don't try. It is we are small, so we need to hold others to account. But I don't see how we can do that effectively, in a timeframe that is good for the planet and our species. |
"It is we are small, so we need to hold others to account." - but cannot hold others to account if we ourselves aren't plausibly heading for net zero in a reasonable time-frame.
"We do need to point the finger at China." - we have, and they are listening. Their emissions are falling. |  | | |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:13 - Aug 4 with 551 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:02 - Aug 4 by grow_our_own |
"It is we are small, so we need to hold others to account." - but cannot hold others to account if we ourselves aren't plausibly heading for net zero in a reasonable time-frame.
"We do need to point the finger at China." - we have, and they are listening. Their emissions are falling. |
Sorry that was an increase for 2024, it (China’s emissions) is projected to peak in 2030 though so one year doesn’t constitute a trend. Worth noting UK carbon emissions decreased 2pc vs China’s 0.5pc.
2060 is woefully inadequate with the climate disasters looming.
“There is no plausible path to limiting the global temperature rise to 1.5 °C without China” | | | |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:18 - Aug 4 with 529 views | Blueschev |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:13 - Aug 4 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Sorry that was an increase for 2024, it (China’s emissions) is projected to peak in 2030 though so one year doesn’t constitute a trend. Worth noting UK carbon emissions decreased 2pc vs China’s 0.5pc.
2060 is woefully inadequate with the climate disasters looming.
“There is no plausible path to limiting the global temperature rise to 1.5 °C without China” |
Would a fundamental change in consumer patterns in the West significantly reduce China's emissions? I honest have no idea as to how they're calculated. |  | | |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:45 - Aug 4 with 482 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:18 - Aug 4 by Blueschev |
Would a fundamental change in consumer patterns in the West significantly reduce China's emissions? I honest have no idea as to how they're calculated. |
Different sources give different estimates (China are obviously notoriously secretive) between 10 and 25pc of energy consumption. Worth noting the west isn’t even their largest export market, they have a wide spread of markets so have largely weathered US tariffs, it’s not unlikely further trade barriers will be brought in from the EU given the growing trade deficit. Western investment in China has generally been falling in recent years. | | | |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:45 - Aug 4 with 482 views | grow_our_own |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:13 - Aug 4 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Sorry that was an increase for 2024, it (China’s emissions) is projected to peak in 2030 though so one year doesn’t constitute a trend. Worth noting UK carbon emissions decreased 2pc vs China’s 0.5pc.
2060 is woefully inadequate with the climate disasters looming.
“There is no plausible path to limiting the global temperature rise to 1.5 °C without China” |
"China’s emissions) is projected to peak in 2030 " - again, I don't know where you're getting your info, but China's emissions peaked in March 2024: https://www.carbonbrief.org/an
Still below that this year so not a 2025 blip. It has more wind & solar than the rest of the world combined. | | | |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:52 - Aug 4 with 459 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:45 - Aug 4 by grow_our_own |
"China’s emissions) is projected to peak in 2030 " - again, I don't know where you're getting your info, but China's emissions peaked in March 2024: https://www.carbonbrief.org/an
Still below that this year so not a 2025 blip. It has more wind & solar than the rest of the world combined. |
2030 was the projection from the Chinese themselves, and it’s not universally agreed when they will hit that:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/
They also burn more coal than the rest of the world combined…. | | | |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:04 - Aug 4 with 427 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:02 - Aug 4 by grow_our_own |
"It is we are small, so we need to hold others to account." - but cannot hold others to account if we ourselves aren't plausibly heading for net zero in a reasonable time-frame.
"We do need to point the finger at China." - we have, and they are listening. Their emissions are falling. |
"but cannot hold others to account if we ourselves aren't plausibly heading for net zero in a reasonable time-frame."
Again, have not said we shouldn't and do not think we shouldn't head to net zero in a reasonable time-frame. Not sure how you can ready what I've said and come back with that.
"We have, and they are listening. Their emissions are falling."
Our emissions are falling, doesn't mean there aren't huge gaps that aren't being addressed
You're coming across as deliberately obtuse. I've said the situation is more complex than I've put on here. I've said it is a reason I don't like talking about it, but you want to knitpick comments. It is more complex than you are trying to make it out to be - listen or not listen. Falling or not falling.
They question was why I'm not talking about it, and you are now underlying why I don't want to, and why other won't want to. [Post edited 4 Aug 17:04]
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| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:06 - Aug 4 with 418 views | grow_our_own |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:52 - Aug 4 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
2030 was the projection from the Chinese themselves, and it’s not universally agreed when they will hit that:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/
They also burn more coal than the rest of the world combined…. |
Old info. Current empirical (not projected) info: they peaked in March 2024. [Post edited 4 Aug 17:07]
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| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:10 - Aug 4 with 411 views | naa |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 07:15 - Aug 3 by SitfcB |
No rain in summer, who knew? |
Hoping that's a joke not least because England is famous for its wet summers. Or was at least. | | | |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:14 - Aug 4 with 407 views | grow_our_own |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:04 - Aug 4 by Kropotkin123 |
"but cannot hold others to account if we ourselves aren't plausibly heading for net zero in a reasonable time-frame."
Again, have not said we shouldn't and do not think we shouldn't head to net zero in a reasonable time-frame. Not sure how you can ready what I've said and come back with that.
"We have, and they are listening. Their emissions are falling."
Our emissions are falling, doesn't mean there aren't huge gaps that aren't being addressed
You're coming across as deliberately obtuse. I've said the situation is more complex than I've put on here. I've said it is a reason I don't like talking about it, but you want to knitpick comments. It is more complex than you are trying to make it out to be - listen or not listen. Falling or not falling.
They question was why I'm not talking about it, and you are now underlying why I don't want to, and why other won't want to. [Post edited 4 Aug 17:04]
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You seem to be talking a lot for someone who's not talking about it. Especially about unnamed complexity and ad-hominum ("obtuse") attacks.
At the risk of failing to adhere to the time-honoured tradition of escalating an internet flame-war, I'll say this: If you think we should hold others to account while we ourselves are heading for net zero, then I'm pretty sure we agree about everything. | | | |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:17 - Aug 4 with 404 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 16:18 - Aug 4 by Blueschev |
Would a fundamental change in consumer patterns in the West significantly reduce China's emissions? I honest have no idea as to how they're calculated. |
Emissions are attributed at source, so yeah we (and all other countries) are outsourcing our emissions to them while complaining about their emissions. It’s a significant part of their overall emissions (10-33% depending on how calculated and year), but then most other countries have exports from various sectors too and will be making the emissions for consumers elsewhere. So god knows how you unravel all that.
Plus if we were to make all the cheap plastic tat we buy from them, we’d be creating the other related pollutants (e.g. plastics plant on Teeside in the news recently - https://www.theguardian.com/bu |  |
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| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:26 - Aug 4 with 395 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:06 - Aug 4 by grow_our_own |
Old info. Current empirical (not projected) info: they peaked in March 2024. [Post edited 4 Aug 17:07]
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Not sure how you can say that with such certainty given emissions rose 2pc this year.
Given they were a big buyer of Iranian oil there’s a good chance that could trend upwards, they are using more coal YoY as a result (as per expert projections). | | | |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:35 - Aug 4 with 370 views | grow_our_own |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:26 - Aug 4 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Not sure how you can say that with such certainty given emissions rose 2pc this year.
Given they were a big buyer of Iranian oil there’s a good chance that could trend upwards, they are using more coal YoY as a result (as per expert projections). |
Because despite that, they remain below March 2024. That's how peaks work.
"there’s a good chance that could trend upwards" - let's see. Massive Chinese renewables coming online.
Don't let "look at China" become the new "don't look up". Everyone needs to reduce, including us. Vote net zero. [Post edited 4 Aug 17:56]
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| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 19:29 - Aug 4 with 288 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Why aren't YOU talking about climate change? on 17:14 - Aug 4 by grow_our_own |
You seem to be talking a lot for someone who's not talking about it. Especially about unnamed complexity and ad-hominum ("obtuse") attacks.
At the risk of failing to adhere to the time-honoured tradition of escalating an internet flame-war, I'll say this: If you think we should hold others to account while we ourselves are heading for net zero, then I'm pretty sure we agree about everything. |
I'm talking about it because I giving my feelings about why I don't. I'll go back to not after this thread.
I immediately accepted the additional complexity that Lagos introduced. I've accepted the additional complexity you introduced, with caveats. This is evidence, even if unnamed
It's not ad-hominum because I did address your points. Ad-hominum is when you do it instead of addressing the points. Phrasing like "You seem to be talking a lot for someone who's not talking about it" supports my position.
I think that you a think about "flame-wars" gives your mindset on the interaction.
"I'll say this: If you think we should hold others to account while we ourselves are heading for net zero, then I'm pretty sure we agree about everything." Yes - I do believe this. But this is not the question I was answering. The original question was "Why aren't YOU talking about climate change?"
My third point is about a feeling of being overwhelmed. That while we think getting our transport emmissions to 0% is important (and it is), it is 0.24% of the world's emissions. Worth doing, but it makes the idea of talking about climate change overwhelming for me. The biggest gains can be made externally to us. I feel like we have very little way of countries being held to account - Be it Bolsonaro's deforestation drive when in power, or Trump withdrawing from the Paris Agreement. There was no system for punative measures (to my knowledge) for breaking those commitments. That is disheartening for me, and make me not want to talk about it. [Post edited 4 Aug 19:30]
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