| Something is going down in Portsmouth… 22:54 - Sep 6 with 15649 views | SitfcB |
But it’s not yet on BBC or Sky News…?
Why? [Post edited 6 Sep 22:54]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 10:35 - Sep 8 with 1457 views | positivity |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 10:22 - Sep 8 by baxterbasics |
Yup.
All of which suggests we could turn every single boat back to France, and the issues the Reform/Restore/'remigration' crowd are most concerned about will barely change a jot. They will not be satisfied. |
and we could deport every immigrant, every muslim, every jew, every person of black and asian ethnicity and they still wouldn't be satisfied.
they would move onto people who weren't true believers or infected by foreign modes of thought or "woke" people. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:00 - Sep 8 with 1391 views | naa |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 10:18 - Sep 8 by balcombeblue |
I think the language is quite important on this issue, despite not being a Reform voter/supporter myself. They are far more aligned to right-wing populism IMO.
Some fascist traits include:
Elections: Not accepting election results. Reform's leadership has never pushed this narrative.
Violence: They have never advocated violence, stating many times it's a red line. Farage has been subjected to this himself and of course, Anne Widdecombe
Paramilitary wings: They don't have one.
Ethno-nationalism: Not much evidence here, although clearly they attract some racist voters. Is there any evidence of ethno-nationalism though?
Press Freedom: There may be more of a point here, Reform are very critical of certain media outlets and Farage in particular has boycotted the BBC at times. Having said that, media boycotts and avoiding scrutiny is not his sole preserve. Sadiq Khan being a good example given his lamentable performance in the GLA.
Law and Order: They are mostly aligned to standard right-wing thought.
Economy: They are strongly economically liberal and pro de-regulation, both are in contrast to fasicsm
Anti-Intellectualism: There are some fits to this, with their opposition to woke culture. |
I do agree to an extent that generally they are populist rather than Fascist, but I suspect that that is because they are trying to get into power and have to appear as reasonable as possible (in doing so, they have lost some of their more rabid voters to Restore). It wouldn't surprise me at all to see some Fascist traits come out should they get power.
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Regarding your reading of it I would offer:
Elections: I'm pretty sure Farage has alluded to voter fraud being possible before a vote, just like Trump did. So I don't agree with that point.
Ethno-nationalist: Farage is very clever with his wording but I would definitely say they are ethno-nationalist to some extent. Not least the suggestion about taxing childless people - i.e. we want more British babies.
Violence: Farage has never, as far as I can tell, denounced any violence from people he is aligned to, but does so when it is from people he isn't.
Press: They recently blocked media they didn't like from their conference. No further discussion required there.
Economy: Agree that Farage is essentially a libertarian when it comes to the economy and healthcare (i.e. sort yourself or suffer).
Anti-Intellectualism: And yes, they push an anti-science narrative constantly
So, I'd say that they are showing some worrying signs personally.
Let's also not forget that you and I are referring to Farage (he IS the leadership, let's be honest), but if you dig down to the candidates they are putting up you will see a lot more statements than lean toward Fascism. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:04 - Sep 8 with 1386 views | baxterbasics |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 10:34 - Sep 8 by redrickstuhaart |
Though notably a s a small parliamentary party they don't have the power yet to pursue the more overtly fascist stuff.And wouldn't show that hand until in power fully one imagines. |
I actually think that if Reform were to gain real power, the opposite would happen - our FPTP system is designed to force power seeking parties to the centre in order to win elections. This is why Farage and co have to constantly moderate or back pedal on some of their more extreme elements. They would have to keep doing so in order to retain power. Unless the centre ground of the electorate genuinely shifted that far to the right. Same thing applies if a fringe left party like the Greens were in that position. Appealing to the nutters helps solidify a core of support and generates headlines and online attention - but then you've got to actually win a majority. You adapt to the electorate or you lose.
Maybe that's just me being optimistic though. Maybe a Farage cabinet will quickly go about testing our democracy Trump style with constitutional and electoral reform designed to keep them in place. That's when our wider institutions - the Judiciary, the Lords, the Monarchy, the press - really need to show their worth and do their job. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:13 - Sep 8 with 1346 views | baxterbasics |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 10:18 - Sep 8 by balcombeblue |
I think the language is quite important on this issue, despite not being a Reform voter/supporter myself. They are far more aligned to right-wing populism IMO.
Some fascist traits include:
Elections: Not accepting election results. Reform's leadership has never pushed this narrative.
Violence: They have never advocated violence, stating many times it's a red line. Farage has been subjected to this himself and of course, Anne Widdecombe
Paramilitary wings: They don't have one.
Ethno-nationalism: Not much evidence here, although clearly they attract some racist voters. Is there any evidence of ethno-nationalism though?
Press Freedom: There may be more of a point here, Reform are very critical of certain media outlets and Farage in particular has boycotted the BBC at times. Having said that, media boycotts and avoiding scrutiny is not his sole preserve. Sadiq Khan being a good example given his lamentable performance in the GLA.
Law and Order: They are mostly aligned to standard right-wing thought.
Economy: They are strongly economically liberal and pro de-regulation, both are in contrast to fasicsm
Anti-Intellectualism: There are some fits to this, with their opposition to woke culture. |
On Ethno-nationalism - This is what really separates Rupert Lowe's Restore from Reform for me. They have taken that one and run with it where Reform seem more relaxed, officially at least, about the colour of a persons skin and their ancestry.
The economy is a tricky one for Farage. He may personally be an all-out Thatcherite free marketeer. But this isn't how Reform are selling themselves to the working class vote they are chasing. This will be a big tension in their ranks if they manage to attain any actual power. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:18 - Sep 8 with 1328 views | balcombeblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 10:30 - Sep 8 by positivity |
interesting, wouldn't agree with all that, but what i said is that "reform definitely have fascist elements within their ranks and amongst their supporters"
not that the party or its supporters was overwhelmingly fascist [Post edited 8 Sep 10:31]
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I agree with your statement for sure. |  | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:21 - Sep 8 with 1315 views | balcombeblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 10:29 - Sep 8 by redrickstuhaart |
Elections. Farage is a trump supporter. Also seeks to evade electoral regulations.
Violence. Cold hard rage. The women at the conference.
Paramilitary wings? Not yet. But again a trump fan looking to recreate his approach. And we have masked men in the streets fighting his cause.
Press freedom. He certainly avoids scrutiny and makes fatuous objections to it.
Law and order? Perhaps. Though they want the navy to dangerously turn dinghies around in the middle of the channel.
Economy. Absolute deregulation. Politicisation of courts etc. [Post edited 8 Sep 10:36]
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The violence bit reminds me of that brilliant punch from John Prescott in 2001!
Never been a Labour fan, but his reaction was absolutely the correct one. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:28 - Sep 8 with 1298 views | balcombeblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:00 - Sep 8 by naa |
I do agree to an extent that generally they are populist rather than Fascist, but I suspect that that is because they are trying to get into power and have to appear as reasonable as possible (in doing so, they have lost some of their more rabid voters to Restore). It wouldn't surprise me at all to see some Fascist traits come out should they get power.
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Regarding your reading of it I would offer:
Elections: I'm pretty sure Farage has alluded to voter fraud being possible before a vote, just like Trump did. So I don't agree with that point.
Ethno-nationalist: Farage is very clever with his wording but I would definitely say they are ethno-nationalist to some extent. Not least the suggestion about taxing childless people - i.e. we want more British babies.
Violence: Farage has never, as far as I can tell, denounced any violence from people he is aligned to, but does so when it is from people he isn't.
Press: They recently blocked media they didn't like from their conference. No further discussion required there.
Economy: Agree that Farage is essentially a libertarian when it comes to the economy and healthcare (i.e. sort yourself or suffer).
Anti-Intellectualism: And yes, they push an anti-science narrative constantly
So, I'd say that they are showing some worrying signs personally.
Let's also not forget that you and I are referring to Farage (he IS the leadership, let's be honest), but if you dig down to the candidates they are putting up you will see a lot more statements than lean toward Fascism. |
I do agree that it's all a bit of a mixed bag, but I think it is way short of fascist. Particularly with their core leadership of Farage, Tice, Jenrick and Yusuf. They are pretty hard line though I ge that.
Fortunately, there are limited extreme elements in the party. That couple with the checks and balances in our system and the fact they won't win gives me confidence. We have never had an issue with significant extremist votes on the left or right in the UK.
I am not making this argument to trivialise their behaviour. It's more that I think political arguments for the mainstream party I have historically supported are damaged by trying to paint people as something they are not. Both Labour and the Conservatives have been blighted by this in the past/present | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:29 - Sep 8 with 1300 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:21 - Sep 8 by balcombeblue |
The violence bit reminds me of that brilliant punch from John Prescott in 2001!
Never been a Labour fan, but his reaction was absolutely the correct one. |
Not really comparable. What was niges comment on burning hotels? He quite purposely stoked that and fed misinformation. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:31 - Sep 8 with 1288 views | balcombeblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:29 - Sep 8 by redrickstuhaart |
Not really comparable. What was niges comment on burning hotels? He quite purposely stoked that and fed misinformation. |
I wasn't making a comparison, just reminded and amused.
Not every response need to be a provocative straw man....... | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:21 - Sep 8 with 1123 views | DJR |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:00 - Sep 8 by naa |
I do agree to an extent that generally they are populist rather than Fascist, but I suspect that that is because they are trying to get into power and have to appear as reasonable as possible (in doing so, they have lost some of their more rabid voters to Restore). It wouldn't surprise me at all to see some Fascist traits come out should they get power.
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Regarding your reading of it I would offer:
Elections: I'm pretty sure Farage has alluded to voter fraud being possible before a vote, just like Trump did. So I don't agree with that point.
Ethno-nationalist: Farage is very clever with his wording but I would definitely say they are ethno-nationalist to some extent. Not least the suggestion about taxing childless people - i.e. we want more British babies.
Violence: Farage has never, as far as I can tell, denounced any violence from people he is aligned to, but does so when it is from people he isn't.
Press: They recently blocked media they didn't like from their conference. No further discussion required there.
Economy: Agree that Farage is essentially a libertarian when it comes to the economy and healthcare (i.e. sort yourself or suffer).
Anti-Intellectualism: And yes, they push an anti-science narrative constantly
So, I'd say that they are showing some worrying signs personally.
Let's also not forget that you and I are referring to Farage (he IS the leadership, let's be honest), but if you dig down to the candidates they are putting up you will see a lot more statements than lean toward Fascism. |
I am surprised that no one has picked up on the parallels with the three most-well known fascists in that Farage leads, and has total control over, a movement that wouldn't really exist without him and won't really survive if he stands down. 
In that sense, he is unlike, say, Trump because the Republican Party will carry on without him.
But I agree that the danger is just how authoritarian or fascist-like Reform might become in power if it managed to take the UK out of various international treaties, including the ECHR. [Post edited 8 Sep 16:29]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:40 - Sep 8 with 1047 views | balcombeblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:21 - Sep 8 by DJR |
I am surprised that no one has picked up on the parallels with the three most-well known fascists in that Farage leads, and has total control over, a movement that wouldn't really exist without him and won't really survive if he stands down.
In that sense, he is unlike, say, Trump because the Republican Party will carry on without him.
But I agree that the danger is just how authoritarian or fascist-like Reform might become in power if it managed to take the UK out of various international treaties, including the ECHR. [Post edited 8 Sep 16:29]
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I don't always see things through unbiased goggles (who does?), but I think Polanski shares a lot of those traits. Although he acts like a grown up child, he's in favour of authoritarianism. His policies, to the extent one can make them out, are equally as extreme and would lead to significant political unrest. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:14 - Sep 8 with 1001 views | DJR |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:40 - Sep 8 by balcombeblue |
I don't always see things through unbiased goggles (who does?), but I think Polanski shares a lot of those traits. Although he acts like a grown up child, he's in favour of authoritarianism. His policies, to the extent one can make them out, are equally as extreme and would lead to significant political unrest. |
Whatever one thinks of Polanski, I suppose the difference from Reform/Farage is that the Greens are never likely to form a government, the party existed before and will exist after Polanski, and the policy of the Greens is determined by its members.
Indeed, I read an article a few months ago which said that Polanski would like to be able to tone down some of its member-driven policies in order to make the party more credible and more palatable to the electorate. [Post edited 8 Sep 17:29]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:20 - Sep 8 with 977 views | Blueschev |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:40 - Sep 8 by balcombeblue |
I don't always see things through unbiased goggles (who does?), but I think Polanski shares a lot of those traits. Although he acts like a grown up child, he's in favour of authoritarianism. His policies, to the extent one can make them out, are equally as extreme and would lead to significant political unrest. |
I'm not a fan of Polanski especially, but that is a ridiculous comparison. The Green Party has internal democratic structures, with policy decided by its membership. Reform has no such structures. In fact, it's a stretch to call it a political party. It's a top down organisation led almost entirely by one man. Were Farage to leave, as with UKIP and the Brexit Party, Reform would soon drift in to insignificance. |  | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:24 - Sep 8 with 962 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:20 - Sep 8 by Blueschev |
I'm not a fan of Polanski especially, but that is a ridiculous comparison. The Green Party has internal democratic structures, with policy decided by its membership. Reform has no such structures. In fact, it's a stretch to call it a political party. It's a top down organisation led almost entirely by one man. Were Farage to leave, as with UKIP and the Brexit Party, Reform would soon drift in to insignificance. |
Indeed.
Add the fact that Polanski's more extreme views are largely about being kind to people and not wrecking the planet. Neither of which are very fascist... | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:28 - Sep 8 with 944 views | balcombeblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:14 - Sep 8 by DJR |
Whatever one thinks of Polanski, I suppose the difference from Reform/Farage is that the Greens are never likely to form a government, the party existed before and will exist after Polanski, and the policy of the Greens is determined by its members.
Indeed, I read an article a few months ago which said that Polanski would like to be able to tone down some of its member-driven policies in order to make the party more credible and more palatable to the electorate. [Post edited 8 Sep 17:29]
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I genuinely wonder if Farage thinks the same? Hence the split from Restore.
We need to see more of Polanski though, mostly entertaining | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:32 - Sep 8 with 930 views | Blueschev |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:28 - Sep 8 by balcombeblue |
I genuinely wonder if Farage thinks the same? Hence the split from Restore.
We need to see more of Polanski though, mostly entertaining |
You wonder if Farage thinks the same about what? He runs the Party. So called members get no say. The only people that have his ear are his dubious donors. This really is false equivalence at its worst. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:38 - Sep 8 with 915 views | DJR |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:28 - Sep 8 by balcombeblue |
I genuinely wonder if Farage thinks the same? Hence the split from Restore.
We need to see more of Polanski though, mostly entertaining |
I think Farage's problem is that he is torn between appealing to Tory voters and appealing to Restore voters.
Interestingly, Danny Thommo, when lecturing/threatening Zia Yusuf yesterday, made it clear that Farage needs to up his game if he is to gain the support of the "working class" movement that Thommo is trying to foster.
Perhaps the irony is that the Mail has reported that Thommo was privately educated. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:43 - Sep 8 with 891 views | balcombeblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:32 - Sep 8 by Blueschev |
You wonder if Farage thinks the same about what? He runs the Party. So called members get no say. The only people that have his ear are his dubious donors. This really is false equivalence at its worst. |
I was making reference to whether he would appeal more to moderate voters. DJR picked up on it. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:47 - Sep 9 with 746 views | soupytwist |
And in today's episode of people with very real concerns taking to the streets to protect our women and children, we have news that the presence of a coach and a number of young Asian men in a Portsmouth hotel leads to a protest.
https://www.theguardian.com/sp [Post edited 9 Sep 16:00]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:48 - Sep 9 with 667 views | Dubtractor |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:38 - Sep 8 by DJR |
I think Farage's problem is that he is torn between appealing to Tory voters and appealing to Restore voters.
Interestingly, Danny Thommo, when lecturing/threatening Zia Yusuf yesterday, made it clear that Farage needs to up his game if he is to gain the support of the "working class" movement that Thommo is trying to foster.
Perhaps the irony is that the Mail has reported that Thommo was privately educated. |
Daniel Thomas is not happy with the Daily Mail.
Edit: the bluesky account is obviously limited from sharing, but in a nutshell Daniel and his goons are protesting outside the Daily mail offices. I suspect that any sympathetic coverage, and it is mental that there has been any in the first place, will quickly disappear. [Post edited 9 Sep 17:51]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:42 - Sep 9 with 592 views | DJR |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:48 - Sep 9 by Dubtractor |
Daniel Thomas is not happy with the Daily Mail.
Edit: the bluesky account is obviously limited from sharing, but in a nutshell Daniel and his goons are protesting outside the Daily mail offices. I suspect that any sympathetic coverage, and it is mental that there has been any in the first place, will quickly disappear. [Post edited 9 Sep 17:51]
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The Mail is a strange one. In the main, it foments fear and loathing in relation to immigration but occasionally (as in the case of its article on Thomas) it slightly backtracks. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:55 - Sep 9 with 572 views | Plums |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:47 - Sep 9 by soupytwist |
And in today's episode of people with very real concerns taking to the streets to protect our women and children, we have news that the presence of a coach and a number of young Asian men in a Portsmouth hotel leads to a protest.
https://www.theguardian.com/sp [Post edited 9 Sep 16:00]
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It's definitely not a race or colour thing...
"Stop the Bats" [Post edited 9 Sep 19:45]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:10 - Sep 9 with 536 views | Dubtractor |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:42 - Sep 9 by DJR |
The Mail is a strange one. In the main, it foments fear and loathing in relation to immigration but occasionally (as in the case of its article on Thomas) it slightly backtracks. |
You do have to wonder how Thomas has so far evaded arrest, given he is very clearly the organiser and ring leader of 3 events now, two of which i think I'm right involved law breaking. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:11 - Sep 9 with 532 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:10 - Sep 9 by Dubtractor |
You do have to wonder how Thomas has so far evaded arrest, given he is very clearly the organiser and ring leader of 3 events now, two of which i think I'm right involved law breaking. |
Not sure there is an offence of organising a protest where individuals then misbehave. You would need more. I imagine they are all over whatever comms he is using by now though.
I think he is up for something else currently anyway though. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 20:49 - Sep 9 with 470 views | DBaldy |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:55 - Sep 9 by Plums |
It's definitely not a race or colour thing...
"Stop the Bats" [Post edited 9 Sep 19:45]
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Stop the bats? Classic.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. | | | |
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