| Something is going down in Portsmouth… 22:54 - Sep 6 with 7216 views | SitfcB |
But it’s not yet on BBC or Sky News…?
Why? [Post edited 6 Sep 22:54]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:52 - Sep 7 with 765 views | Blueschev |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:36 - Sep 7 by eireblue |
NGO’s have been complaining about the increasing violence the French police have been using.
So there is independent evidence that tactics have changed. |
"Yeah because NGO's would never give incorrect figures so the UK's investment continues/increases..." |  | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:10 - Sep 7 with 710 views | BlueBoots |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:18 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
Yeah because the french police would never give incorrect figures so the UK's investment continues/increases.... |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:26 - Sep 7 with 668 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 14:48 - Sep 7 by noggin |
"how I worded it, is not quite accurate"
It was way off, but you know that. |
It was all going so well wasn't it. A healthy debate from both sides of the argument.
However your lot you can't help yourself can you...you had to go and insinuate racism didn't you. |  | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:26 - Sep 7 with 665 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:18 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
Yeah because the french police would never give incorrect figures so the UK's investment continues/increases.... |
There was some bloke interviewed on R5 Live earlier who was having none of the official figures either. He was adamant the figures were going up, didn’t believe they were coming down and didn’t trust any information coming from the government or police or any of the authorities. There’s no problem questioning figures and checking methodologies for inconsistencies, etc., but this is just conspiracy type thinking without any basis in fact. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:41 - Sep 7 with 622 views | LeoMuff |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:00 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
If you can bring value to the UK by working in care homes, hospitals and going into people's homes to provide care, and arrive in the country by following the legitmate process then you should be welcomed.
If you arrive on a boat via a beach in France then you dont fall into the above group of immigrants as these people can arrive via airports or ports and show the correct paperwork. |
Care workers and health care aren’t skilled workers, why do you presume they have arrived at an airport and not a boat ?
If you come from a war torn country such as Afghanistan, Iran or Eritrea you aren’t coming via an airport with the correct paperwork, doesn’t mean you don’t want to earn and contribute. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:50 - Sep 7 with 580 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 14:30 - Sep 7 by eireblue |
Criminal gangs don’t say to their potential customers, yeah Uk is closing down its benefits.
You think someone that has spent months travelling from Eritrea is going to be checking the .gov site to work out whether they get butter on their bread.
“pull factor” is just a term for U.K. politicians to get people to dislike immigrants.
Do Migrants Know the Welfare and Benefit Levels?
Generally, no. Extensive empirical studies—including reports by the UK Home Office and the Mixed Migration Centre (MMC)—reveal that:
Information is limited or inaccurate:
Most people on the move have little to no precise knowledge of a destination country's welfare rates, housing policies, or legal work bans before arriving.
Perceptions vs. Reality:
Decisions are often driven by broad, subjective impressions of a country (e.g., "it is a safe and fair place") rather than an objective comparison of state stipends.
The "Welfare Magnet" Myth:
A massive study by the Immigration Policy Lab (IPL) tracking over 200,000 immigrants found no evidence that people choose destinations based on marginal shifts or increases in welfare benefits.
It is dog whistle politics, politicians are basically using the old trope, they are coming over here to steal from you. |
My word, for someone so clearly able to construct an argument, you're miles off on this one in my opinion.
Checking websites beforehand, come on. They dont need the exact numbers, word travels, smugglers know, other migrants whove made it know, thats enough to know that UK treats you better than sitting in France. Dont need to read the benefits handbook for that.
Nobodys issaying they compare a 2% increase. I'm saying the baseline offer, safe, housed, fed while you wait, vs not, thats not marginal.
The way you state pull factor is just a dog whistle, nothing to see here, comes across like you'd have zero issue with the borders being even more open than they already are. Which is madness to me. I'm not saying dont welcome anyone, genuine cases can come and stay, but pretending the offer we put on the table has literally no bearing on where people choose to go is just not a serious position. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:07 - Sep 7 with 528 views | eireblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:50 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
My word, for someone so clearly able to construct an argument, you're miles off on this one in my opinion.
Checking websites beforehand, come on. They dont need the exact numbers, word travels, smugglers know, other migrants whove made it know, thats enough to know that UK treats you better than sitting in France. Dont need to read the benefits handbook for that.
Nobodys issaying they compare a 2% increase. I'm saying the baseline offer, safe, housed, fed while you wait, vs not, thats not marginal.
The way you state pull factor is just a dog whistle, nothing to see here, comes across like you'd have zero issue with the borders being even more open than they already are. Which is madness to me. I'm not saying dont welcome anyone, genuine cases can come and stay, but pretending the offer we put on the table has literally no bearing on where people choose to go is just not a serious position. |
Why is your opinion more informed than a survey done on 200,000 immigrants? |  | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:11 - Sep 7 with 515 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:07 - Sep 7 by eireblue |
Why is your opinion more informed than a survey done on 200,000 immigrants? |
Go on then, link me the study, I want to read it properly. | | | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:50 - Sep 7 with 412 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:52 - Sep 7 by Blueschev |
"Yeah because NGO's would never give incorrect figures so the UK's investment continues/increases..." |
Why would an NGO benefit from increased spending of a government department? | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:52 - Sep 7 with 405 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:26 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
It was all going so well wasn't it. A healthy debate from both sides of the argument.
However your lot you can't help yourself can you...you had to go and insinuate racism didn't you. |
Not having that.
You were called on a blatant untruth, peddled by racists and reformers. You then accepted "it wasn't quite accurate" when it was utter boll ox. Not an honest position, and not unreasonable to call you out on it. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:53 - Sep 7 with 393 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:11 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Go on then, link me the study, I want to read it properly. |
Hooray!!!! Someone actually prepared to look at evidence?! | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:39 - Sep 7 with 332 views | noggin |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:26 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
It was all going so well wasn't it. A healthy debate from both sides of the argument.
However your lot you can't help yourself can you...you had to go and insinuate racism didn't you. |
That is bang out of order. I pulled you up for lying and never 'insinuated' anything else. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:39 - Sep 7 with 327 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:52 - Sep 7 by redrickstuhaart |
Not having that.
You were called on a blatant untruth, peddled by racists and reformers. You then accepted "it wasn't quite accurate" when it was utter boll ox. Not an honest position, and not unreasonable to call you out on it. |
Don't have 'it' then.
I accepted my wording could have caused confusion. I accepted that. Let's not get too excited about it. I corrected it within my response. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:41 - Sep 7 with 320 views | noggin |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:39 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Don't have 'it' then.
I accepted my wording could have caused confusion. I accepted that. Let's not get too excited about it. I corrected it within my response. |
Where did I insinuate that you are racist though? | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:42 - Sep 7 with 308 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:39 - Sep 7 by noggin |
That is bang out of order. I pulled you up for lying and never 'insinuated' anything else. |
Oh stop with the faux outrage.
You said 'I knew that...' - no I didn't. I never originally read my post how you did. I read it back and could see how it could have been interpreted. [Post edited 7 Sep 18:46]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:43 - Sep 7 with 303 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:53 - Sep 7 by redrickstuhaart |
Hooray!!!! Someone actually prepared to look at evidence?! |
I am. Still haven't been pointed into he right direction though. I'm keen to see this study. Genuinely. Can you help? | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:46 - Sep 7 with 289 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 17:53 - Sep 7 by redrickstuhaart |
Hooray!!!! Someone actually prepared to look at evidence?! |
*deleted as duplicate [Post edited 7 Sep 18:47]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:51 - Sep 7 with 264 views | noggin |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:42 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Oh stop with the faux outrage.
You said 'I knew that...' - no I didn't. I never originally read my post how you did. I read it back and could see how it could have been interpreted. [Post edited 7 Sep 18:46]
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You stated, quite clearly, that "most" asylum seekers pass through Germany and France, to get to England. I called out your lie. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:55 - Sep 7 with 243 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:41 - Sep 7 by noggin |
Where did I insinuate that you are racist though? |
This isn't my first rodeo on here. The 'final boss' move by many on here is to get into a position to call someone with a differing view a racist or a fascist. That's the celebrated by the usual crew. One of the best approaches that the most skilled posters often use is by stating those they don't agree with them make things up or don't listen or understand 'facts or data'. I can see that you are jumping on this angle for me.
Please don't insult my intelligence by making out this isn't your 'play'. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:56 - Sep 7 with 236 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 16:50 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
My word, for someone so clearly able to construct an argument, you're miles off on this one in my opinion.
Checking websites beforehand, come on. They dont need the exact numbers, word travels, smugglers know, other migrants whove made it know, thats enough to know that UK treats you better than sitting in France. Dont need to read the benefits handbook for that.
Nobodys issaying they compare a 2% increase. I'm saying the baseline offer, safe, housed, fed while you wait, vs not, thats not marginal.
The way you state pull factor is just a dog whistle, nothing to see here, comes across like you'd have zero issue with the borders being even more open than they already are. Which is madness to me. I'm not saying dont welcome anyone, genuine cases can come and stay, but pretending the offer we put on the table has literally no bearing on where people choose to go is just not a serious position. |
"I'm saying the baseline offer, safe, housed, fed while you wait, vs not, thats not marginal."
Do I understand you correctly when I read that as you think we should not offer any of the following:
safety;
a roof over the head;
food?
Or are you suggesting that these people get something far in excess of that when they arrive here and are kept in a place until their case has been considered? |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:01 - Sep 7 with 221 views | noggin |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 18:55 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
This isn't my first rodeo on here. The 'final boss' move by many on here is to get into a position to call someone with a differing view a racist or a fascist. That's the celebrated by the usual crew. One of the best approaches that the most skilled posters often use is by stating those they don't agree with them make things up or don't listen or understand 'facts or data'. I can see that you are jumping on this angle for me.
Please don't insult my intelligence by making out this isn't your 'play'. |
Everyone can see what you're posting here. You're only kidding yourself. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:11 - Sep 7 with 190 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:01 - Sep 7 by noggin |
Everyone can see what you're posting here. You're only kidding yourself. |
If we are talking usual playbooks I would love to see how much Sitters has contributed to the discussion on this thread after lighting the blue touch paper and retiring. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:16 - Sep 7 with 171 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:01 - Sep 7 by noggin |
Everyone can see what you're posting here. You're only kidding yourself. |
Had I have typed 'many' rather than 'most' then I wonder if you would be taking this angle.
*Ps you're doing it again. 'everyone can see'. No, those who choose this tactic of screaming racist and fascist can. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:22 - Sep 7 with 151 views | TresBonne |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:40 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
To be very clear, I've never once heard or said Farage has actually put forward a workable answer to this. 'Stop the boats overnight' isn't a policy, it's a soundbite and everyone screaming it, I would hope knows full well it doesn't happen like that. To be doubly clear, I'm not NF fan, not remotely, so please don't lump me in with that.
I know full well this costs money and I know there's no overnight fix. Strip back the benefits, keep the holding conditions basic, not cruel, but not comfortable either and already you will have taken a chunk of the pull factor out of the system. Ensure nobody leaves that process and into the country unless they've got a confirmed job or a sponsor lined up. No job, no sponsor then sorry, there's no place for you here. Meanwhile anyone with genuine skills who can contribute, welcome them in and we must/should use them properly.
Bottom line and one that I can't unsee, you don't turn up to a party uninvited and expect to be fed by everyone else there, not unless you're bringing something to it. Music, food, whatever but you must contribute or you don't get to stay. I know it's a blunt way of putting it, but that's the principle in all this for me.
Is any of this outrageous, honestly? |
Well said. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:30 - Sep 7 with 135 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 19:22 - Sep 7 by TresBonne |
Well said. |
"Bottom line and one that I can't unsee, you don't turn up to a party uninvited and expect to be fed by everyone else there, not unless you're bringing something to it. Music, food, whatever but you must contribute or you don't get to stay. I know it's a blunt way of putting it, but that's the principle in all this for me.
Is any of this outrageous, honestly?"
Does this whole thing apply to everyone or just immigrants? Does this mean compulsory euthanasia for those people who can't or won't contribute usefully to society?
"The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members.” Mahatma Ghandi.
Of course, I can see the argument over how far that extends and the conundrum of what we do about the millions of displaced people who end up in places like Turkey and Germany. But let's not kid ourselves that the small percentage of those who end up in this country are somehow bankrupting the country or surreptitiously turning it into some Islamic state.
EDIT: Plus am I the only person who has attended plenty of parties without providing the food/music or anything like that? [Post edited 7 Sep 19:36]
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