| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. 02:13 - Sep 22 with 7514 views | Ryorry |
1. Police thought there was no indication any crime had even been committed, till a doctor at the hospital informed them that he'd gone into the ward & discovered her standing over a baby in distress for whom the alarm had been been turned off, but she was doing nothing to help them.
Now turns out that he'd emailed colleagues at the same time saying it was her who called his attention to the baby in distress, and that the alarm was still working. Has admitted he's changed his mind re his original statement to police.
2. Key evidence for the prosecution (because the only extant scientific evidence) was totally flawed.
a) Info re baby O's blood sugar level for April 9th, which showed it to be normal - thus proving insulin couldn't have been administered that day by Letby or anyone else - was not presented to the trial, but it was presented for April 8th, 10th, 11th & 12th.
b) Consultant pulmonologist said it would have been impossible to kill babies via the air injection method cited at the trial. There was actually handwritten timeline evidence by one of the doctors at the hospital that it was his injection catching part of one baby's liver which had already been damaged during birth, which was likely to be the significant factor in their death.
3. One of the parents whose baby died said it was entirely due to faecal infection (there was faecal matter coming out of the taps on the ward on a regular basis), but similar to several other babies' deaths at the hospital when Letby was not present, this was not recorded - because although the infant contracted the infection at the Countess of Chester Hospital, they were bluelighted away to a bigger hospital in Manchester to be treated, but sadly died anyway, so the deaths were recorded there & not included in stats for the CoC.
4. The jurors and court were told that all the babies who died were well and stable, so the only cause of death could have been deliberate harm. A senior nurse working on the ward at the time said this was manifestly untrue - the babies were all 'category 3' - the highest level of prematurity/illness/vulnerability - which the CoC Hosp was totally unequipped to deal with, particularly in extraordinary levels of understaffing.
A newspaper which most on here understandably shun, said it set out to prove Letby guilty in this docu, but actually ended up finding the complete opposite,
https://www.channel5.com/show/
[Post edited 22 Sep 3:27]
|  |
| |  |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 15:45 - Sep 22 with 858 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 15:26 - Sep 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Astonishing take that you can read people's minds on this and "get" their motivations. Her skin colour never even occured to me and I don't think she's particularly pretty either.
As others have, the fact that there are several incidents of white women criminals who didn't get these doubts blows your theory out of the water.
I don't really see anyone in this thread wanting her to be innocent, but rather wanting the truth.
Astonishing, too, that you have so much faith in the justice system that obviously never gets anything wrong ever! |
It is hard to tell, these days, whether this groundswell of opinion is informed and justified or algorithm driven conspiracy nonsense. I lean towards the latter but have done insufficient research to have an informed opinion beyond looking at the appeal judgment and a bit of googling. Worryingly most of the opinions I see are from people with no greater insight who have not even looked at the actual judgment..
But I do think it would not be the same story of it were an immigrant nurse... |  |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 15:47 - Sep 22 with 849 views | Zx1988 |
From what I've read and heard, I'm more and more inclined to worry about the safety of the conviction.
To me, the criminal standard of proof underpins things here - with the new evidence and expert commentary, can we still be sure, beyond all reasonable doubt, that Letby was responsible for the deaths? | |
| Not a prophet, or a stone-age man; just a mortal with potential of a superman. | | Poll: | Worst Ginger? |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 17:19 - Sep 22 with 748 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 15:45 - Sep 22 by redrickstuhaart |
It is hard to tell, these days, whether this groundswell of opinion is informed and justified or algorithm driven conspiracy nonsense. I lean towards the latter but have done insufficient research to have an informed opinion beyond looking at the appeal judgment and a bit of googling. Worryingly most of the opinions I see are from people with no greater insight who have not even looked at the actual judgment..
But I do think it would not be the same story of it were an immigrant nurse... |
I'm sure it wouldn't, but that doesn't make anyone's concerns less valid.
I haven't looked at "groundswell of opinion" outside of this thread, and I don't see any evidence here that it's algorithm driven conspiracy nonsense. Indeed, Ryorry's quoting directly from a documentary.
If there are problems, inconsistencies, evidence taken out of context etc., then it's quite right that the conviction should be examined, surely? I think it's weirder to stick your fingers in your ears and want to sweep it all under the carpet. |  |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 17:32 - Sep 22 with 722 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 17:19 - Sep 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm sure it wouldn't, but that doesn't make anyone's concerns less valid.
I haven't looked at "groundswell of opinion" outside of this thread, and I don't see any evidence here that it's algorithm driven conspiracy nonsense. Indeed, Ryorry's quoting directly from a documentary.
If there are problems, inconsistencies, evidence taken out of context etc., then it's quite right that the conviction should be examined, surely? I think it's weirder to stick your fingers in your ears and want to sweep it all under the carpet. |
Who were the loudest public voices on this? Nadine Dorries and Peter Hitchens...
Why do these people think they can see something clearly that those with more information and professional skills do not? | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 17:50 - Sep 22 with 696 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 17:32 - Sep 22 by redrickstuhaart |
Who were the loudest public voices on this? Nadine Dorries and Peter Hitchens...
Why do these people think they can see something clearly that those with more information and professional skills do not? |
They don’t. They are reporting what professionals are saying.
I’ll flip it around as to why you think the court process is better than what is in front of the CCRC? |  | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 18:01 - Sep 22 with 679 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 11:54 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
It's extraordinary to be able to this through the prism of prejudice/race. In my view, that's the true prejudice.
For once I don't really know what to say! |
If she wasn’t a privately educated rich white woman, there absolutely wouldn’t be half a dozen documentaries and Netflix shows examining whether a baby killer actually wasn’t evil at all.
It’s as if they just don’t think she’s capable despite the evidence and the whole process of a trial.
Doesn’t make me racist to say there’s huge subconscious bias at play here. No need for anyone to get offended by my belief. |  |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 18:14 - Sep 22 with 657 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 17:50 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
They don’t. They are reporting what professionals are saying.
I’ll flip it around as to why you think the court process is better than what is in front of the CCRC? |
That's not true. They are pursuing a line taken by one disgruntled expert which snowballed and which the appeal court actively dealt with.
Your question is bizarre. We don't know what the ccrc will say yet. We just have what mostly Ill informed people reckon. | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 19:16 - Sep 22 with 621 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 18:14 - Sep 22 by redrickstuhaart |
That's not true. They are pursuing a line taken by one disgruntled expert which snowballed and which the appeal court actively dealt with.
Your question is bizarre. We don't know what the ccrc will say yet. We just have what mostly Ill informed people reckon. |
I don’t you’ve read around this case, you’ve said as much.
You haven’t answered my question, trusting the courts…. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 19:39 - Sep 22 with 607 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 19:16 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
I don’t you’ve read around this case, you’ve said as much.
You haven’t answered my question, trusting the courts…. |
Your question was about whether the court process was better than the information before the CCRC.
Nothing to do with "trusting the courts". Your question makes no sense because:
1- you are comparing a process with an unspecified body of information.
2- We do not know whether the CCRC will take any particular view
3- Even if it does, it returns it to the Courts
Don't accuse me of not answering a question which makes no sense, by changing it after the event. Really not a proper way to discuss anything. | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 19:59 - Sep 22 with 577 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 18:01 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
If she wasn’t a privately educated rich white woman, there absolutely wouldn’t be half a dozen documentaries and Netflix shows examining whether a baby killer actually wasn’t evil at all.
It’s as if they just don’t think she’s capable despite the evidence and the whole process of a trial.
Doesn’t make me racist to say there’s huge subconscious bias at play here. No need for anyone to get offended by my belief. |
Where's your evidence that she was privately educated and rich? | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:01 - Sep 22 with 571 views | Kievthegreat |
If there are questions to ask and things to be re-examined, there is a process in place and underway.
What I find bizarre is the strength of feeling and just how ardent some people are in this thread. In all likelihood, not a single person in this thread has any expertise or qualification to speak on the evidence. Reading Private Eye and watching a couple of documentaries, does not an expert make. However some of the proselytising is OTT. [Post edited 22 Sep 20:02]
|  | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:04 - Sep 22 with 557 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:01 - Sep 22 by Kievthegreat |
If there are questions to ask and things to be re-examined, there is a process in place and underway.
What I find bizarre is the strength of feeling and just how ardent some people are in this thread. In all likelihood, not a single person in this thread has any expertise or qualification to speak on the evidence. Reading Private Eye and watching a couple of documentaries, does not an expert make. However some of the proselytising is OTT. [Post edited 22 Sep 20:02]
|
This. Absolutely this.
Social media, algorithms and echo chambers have a lot to answer for. | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:06 - Sep 22 with 554 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:01 - Sep 22 by Kievthegreat |
If there are questions to ask and things to be re-examined, there is a process in place and underway.
What I find bizarre is the strength of feeling and just how ardent some people are in this thread. In all likelihood, not a single person in this thread has any expertise or qualification to speak on the evidence. Reading Private Eye and watching a couple of documentaries, does not an expert make. However some of the proselytising is OTT. [Post edited 22 Sep 20:02]
|
I feel like the people saying she's guilty seem the most certain. Those expressing doubts just seem to be doing that, and wanting the anomalies looked at. I don't think I've seen anyone saying she's defintely innocent. | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:10 - Sep 22 with 543 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:04 - Sep 22 by redrickstuhaart |
This. Absolutely this.
Social media, algorithms and echo chambers have a lot to answer for. |
As I said above, "I haven't looked at "groundswell of opinion" outside of this thread, and I don't see any evidence here that it's algorithm driven conspiracy nonsense. Indeed, Ryorry's quoting directly from a documentary." But you've completely ignored this and have carried on with your "algorithms and echo chambers" narrative.
What exactly is your problem with re-examining the evidence? | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:11 - Sep 22 with 536 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:06 - Sep 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I feel like the people saying she's guilty seem the most certain. Those expressing doubts just seem to be doing that, and wanting the anomalies looked at. I don't think I've seen anyone saying she's defintely innocent. |
People saying she's guilty do, of course, have a reasonable basis for that; namely a lengthy trial and a detailed appeal judgment. Its the reasonable starting point. | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:14 - Sep 22 with 523 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:10 - Sep 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
As I said above, "I haven't looked at "groundswell of opinion" outside of this thread, and I don't see any evidence here that it's algorithm driven conspiracy nonsense. Indeed, Ryorry's quoting directly from a documentary." But you've completely ignored this and have carried on with your "algorithms and echo chambers" narrative.
What exactly is your problem with re-examining the evidence? |
Absolutely nothing wrong with re examining evidence if there is a sound reason. My comments literally agreed with the post under reply talking about that process.
This issue has been building for a very very long time in social media echo chambers and conspiracy groups. Regardless of what you may or may not have seen. Not every answer is directed at you!
The comment remains well founded. And was a response to someone making the point that he was surprised by the absolute certainty shown by people who clearly dont have the insight, information, skills or knowledge to reasonably be that confident. I believe that has a lot to do with social media and echo chambers. [Post edited 22 Sep 20:19]
| |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:20 - Sep 22 with 506 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 18:01 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
If she wasn’t a privately educated rich white woman, there absolutely wouldn’t be half a dozen documentaries and Netflix shows examining whether a baby killer actually wasn’t evil at all.
It’s as if they just don’t think she’s capable despite the evidence and the whole process of a trial.
Doesn’t make me racist to say there’s huge subconscious bias at play here. No need for anyone to get offended by my belief. |
I’m not offended, your beliefs are perfectly reasonable to hold. I just think your views are totally wrong and laced in a weird prejudice. The assertion you make on people who thinks there is a miscarriage of justice is implicit.
My view is that this is the worst face of discrimination. Hence my reaction. | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:22 - Sep 22 with 498 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:20 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
I’m not offended, your beliefs are perfectly reasonable to hold. I just think your views are totally wrong and laced in a weird prejudice. The assertion you make on people who thinks there is a miscarriage of justice is implicit.
My view is that this is the worst face of discrimination. Hence my reaction. |
Not even coherent tbh. | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:24 - Sep 22 with 493 views | vapour_trail |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:01 - Sep 22 by Kievthegreat |
If there are questions to ask and things to be re-examined, there is a process in place and underway.
What I find bizarre is the strength of feeling and just how ardent some people are in this thread. In all likelihood, not a single person in this thread has any expertise or qualification to speak on the evidence. Reading Private Eye and watching a couple of documentaries, does not an expert make. However some of the proselytising is OTT. [Post edited 22 Sep 20:02]
|
It’s off the scale how committed some people seem to be to the rejection of the process on this. And it’s not coming from the folk that like to offer intellectual scrutiny generally.
Maybe there’ll be proved correct, it wouldn’t be the first time there’s been a miscarriage of justice, but I do find the religious like attachment to this very bewildering. |  |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:32 - Sep 22 with 471 views | Ryorry |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 18:01 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
If she wasn’t a privately educated rich white woman, there absolutely wouldn’t be half a dozen documentaries and Netflix shows examining whether a baby killer actually wasn’t evil at all.
It’s as if they just don’t think she’s capable despite the evidence and the whole process of a trial.
Doesn’t make me racist to say there’s huge subconscious bias at play here. No need for anyone to get offended by my belief. |
Your vilification and judgement of someone for their appearance, background, situation they were born into and the school their parents sent them to is seriously worrying. I hope you don’t get called for jury service anytime soon.
I had and still have no idea as to reality of her background btw. | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:50 - Sep 22 with 443 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:20 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
I’m not offended, your beliefs are perfectly reasonable to hold. I just think your views are totally wrong and laced in a weird prejudice. The assertion you make on people who thinks there is a miscarriage of justice is implicit.
My view is that this is the worst face of discrimination. Hence my reaction. |
I just don’t understand the obsession with some that she must be innocent. Why must she be? Why are there so many documentaries.
This is literally the 4th thread I remember the OP making about this specific case and every time defending Letby. I just find it weird when she’s a convicted baby killer. | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:54 - Sep 22 with 433 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:32 - Sep 22 by Ryorry |
Your vilification and judgement of someone for their appearance, background, situation they were born into and the school their parents sent them to is seriously worrying. I hope you don’t get called for jury service anytime soon.
I had and still have no idea as to reality of her background btw. |
Nice of you to get personal because you disagree with my view.
Funny you should mention jury service though. Because if you get your wish and she gets a retrial due to the media obsession, and you were called up, she’d be getting not guilty from you without you needing to hear a word. Because obviously you’ve seen documentaries so now more than the jurors. In fact would you even listen as a juror to a new trial? As you already know everything about the case. Would be a waste of your time wouldn’t it | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:57 - Sep 22 with 422 views | Ryorry |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:01 - Sep 22 by Kievthegreat |
If there are questions to ask and things to be re-examined, there is a process in place and underway.
What I find bizarre is the strength of feeling and just how ardent some people are in this thread. In all likelihood, not a single person in this thread has any expertise or qualification to speak on the evidence. Reading Private Eye and watching a couple of documentaries, does not an expert make. However some of the proselytising is OTT. [Post edited 22 Sep 20:02]
|
Some of us care about justice. Not as if there haven’t been gross miscarriages of it in the UK before, the proof of which came about because people fought for it; consequently innocent people were freed. Isn’t that what you would want for yourself and your family?
None of us calling for a review of the case for appeal have said we know whether Letby is innocent or guilty, we don’t, we are just concerned that the mountain of evidence that was *not* presented at trial, was rejected by the appeals court on technicalities, from huge numbers of independent medical, legal and police experts, is being ignored.
It’s thoroughly insulting to say we’re just idly going by documentaries, Private Eye etc info. All of those contain valid, verified info and facts from well respected people and sources. I personally have never used social media platforms as a basis for reading, information or opinion on this case.
Btw, for whoever it was that rather bizarrely referenced 3 politicians as the driving force behind the groundswell for appeal, here’s the reality. A few of the loudest voices on this thread seem to have done little or no real research.
https://jollycontrarian.com/in | |
| |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 21:00 - Sep 22 with 416 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:57 - Sep 22 by Ryorry |
Some of us care about justice. Not as if there haven’t been gross miscarriages of it in the UK before, the proof of which came about because people fought for it; consequently innocent people were freed. Isn’t that what you would want for yourself and your family?
None of us calling for a review of the case for appeal have said we know whether Letby is innocent or guilty, we don’t, we are just concerned that the mountain of evidence that was *not* presented at trial, was rejected by the appeals court on technicalities, from huge numbers of independent medical, legal and police experts, is being ignored.
It’s thoroughly insulting to say we’re just idly going by documentaries, Private Eye etc info. All of those contain valid, verified info and facts from well respected people and sources. I personally have never used social media platforms as a basis for reading, information or opinion on this case.
Btw, for whoever it was that rather bizarrely referenced 3 politicians as the driving force behind the groundswell for appeal, here’s the reality. A few of the loudest voices on this thread seem to have done little or no real research.
https://jollycontrarian.com/in |
Appeal courts don't ignore things on technicalities. If there is a substantive point they will deal with it. What "technicality" caused something to be ignored by the CofA? This is the mindset that people are finding difficult to understand. Assertions of failings, based on very little.
The focus on one expert's view (regardless of being backed by others in the media) is one small part of a much bigger picture, and was taken into account....
The link is to a site with an agenda, presumably. Nothing changes the fact that when a cause is taken up by Nadine Dorries, there is reason for great caution! [Post edited 22 Sep 21:02]
| |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
