| Cut Walton some slack 14:02 - Nov 9 with 4445 views | GreenEye |
I think he's made some fine saves this season.
We know he's not great with his feet so a hospital pass instead of playing up the line wasn't smart. |  | | |  |
| Indeed on 08:59 - Nov 10 | Dubtractor |
| Indeed on 08:52 - Nov 10 by FrimleyBlue |
If he won hes deserving of it as hed have a won something he was nominated for. I havent said he wouldnt deserve to win it. If the judges felt his dive was better than those who stopped shots that was going in then thats for them to award and hed deserve to win it based on their chosen criteria for shortlisting.
If your response to a keepers poor save rate is to point out an award where a ball doesnt even have to be going in to be nominated, well...... |
Fine. You do you. |  |
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| Cut Walton some slack on 09:07 - Nov 10 | DJR |
The goalkeeping position was discussed on the KOA podcast yesterday.
Mark Heath, Stuart Watson and Ross Hall all thought it best to stick with Walton, not least because of the danger of chopping and changing goalkeeper becoming a feature, if Scherpen weren't to perfom.
They also played a clip from O'Neil which suggested Walton is doing better in training and that O'Neil is not minded to change.
At the end of the day, Walton has got better with his feet but will never be a Hladky, but I don't recall him ever being responsible in the same way for a goal as he was on Saturday.
More generally, it is probably possible with many goals any keeper concedes to argue they could have done better, and this is certainly something that will happen if people don't rate a keeper. [Post edited 10 Nov 9:13]
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| Indeed on 09:24 - Nov 10 | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| Indeed on 08:59 - Nov 10 by Dubtractor |
Fine. You do you. |
Ooh is this the one when Frimley Makin stops pretending to be different and a changed poster, goes all obsessively negative over a player, spams the board and makes it unbearable?
I've seen this episode before.
(The answer to my previous question was 39 negative posts as of last night about Walton. That's 39 in under two days. About a great servant for this club. Fck sake man). |  | | |
| Indeed on 09:53 - Nov 10 | FrimleyBlue |
| Indeed on 09:24 - Nov 10 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
Ooh is this the one when Frimley Makin stops pretending to be different and a changed poster, goes all obsessively negative over a player, spams the board and makes it unbearable?
I've seen this episode before.
(The answer to my previous question was 39 negative posts as of last night about Walton. That's 39 in under two days. About a great servant for this club. Fck sake man). |
No spamming of a forum. Im not starting threads directly about him. Simply using threads created by others to discuss him.
Ive simply replied to discussions about a keeper mentioned by the OPs of the threads. If you dont want to discuss him then people shouldnt make threads about him and if you dont want post replies then whats the forum for.
Counting posts is rather bizarre. If we were having a face to face chat it would be seamless conversation. As its a forum there will be posts of volume as im discussing things with people and more than one person so theres gonna be a lot of posts. |  |
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| Indeed on 10:23 - Nov 10 | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Indeed on 07:20 - Nov 10 by FrimleyBlue |
So is that your own bias no? The ball is curling away from goal. Literally the only reason i dont sgree that the ball is going in. |
May well be my own bias, but I don't really have an agenda here. I'm just saying what I see. I think Walton's mostly ok, but would love better. You, by the amount you post about it, seem to have it in for him. Which is why it looks like confirmation bias. It's up for save of the month, which ought to be enough to tell you it's a good save.
Regardless of the curl, it still looks to be heading for the post before Walton's touch, to me. The only reason you want to take it away from him is you want to stick the boot in even further. On one of your own players, although let's be honest, you have form for this.
There's enough mistakes for you to talk about (and by god you have), so trying to belittle his actual saves seems a little odd. |  |
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| Indeed on 11:02 - Nov 10 | FrimleyBlue |
| Indeed on 10:23 - Nov 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
May well be my own bias, but I don't really have an agenda here. I'm just saying what I see. I think Walton's mostly ok, but would love better. You, by the amount you post about it, seem to have it in for him. Which is why it looks like confirmation bias. It's up for save of the month, which ought to be enough to tell you it's a good save.
Regardless of the curl, it still looks to be heading for the post before Walton's touch, to me. The only reason you want to take it away from him is you want to stick the boot in even further. On one of your own players, although let's be honest, you have form for this.
There's enough mistakes for you to talk about (and by god you have), so trying to belittle his actual saves seems a little odd. |
Your agenda is no different to mine however you are pushing to find positives and ignoring things Where as im defending my views based on facts and nothing more.
You agree to your own bias. So all we have here is someone who isnt afraid to speak up about players compared to someone who clings on to the past
Oh btw. Side note
My boy asked if youre doing another book? [Post edited 10 Nov 11:04]
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| Indeed on 11:23 - Nov 10 | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Indeed on 11:02 - Nov 10 by FrimleyBlue |
Your agenda is no different to mine however you are pushing to find positives and ignoring things Where as im defending my views based on facts and nothing more.
You agree to your own bias. So all we have here is someone who isnt afraid to speak up about players compared to someone who clings on to the past
Oh btw. Side note
My boy asked if youre doing another book? [Post edited 10 Nov 11:04]
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I don't really have an agenda other than the facts.
I certainly haven't made 40+ posts about the same subject!
The idea that your posts are based on facts and nothing more is delusion I'm afraid.
What have I ignored? In what way do I cling to the past? Can you povide any evidence of me ignoring things and/or clinging to the past?
Yep, I do plan to do another book. I've done a poem for every game this season as well (although haven't had time to do the Bournemouth one yet). Did you hear me flogging it on Radio Suffolk last night? It's on iPlayer, probably, of you want to listen to my dulcet tones! | |
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| Indeed on 11:32 - Nov 10 | FrimleyBlue |
| Indeed on 11:23 - Nov 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't really have an agenda other than the facts.
I certainly haven't made 40+ posts about the same subject!
The idea that your posts are based on facts and nothing more is delusion I'm afraid.
What have I ignored? In what way do I cling to the past? Can you povide any evidence of me ignoring things and/or clinging to the past?
Yep, I do plan to do another book. I've done a poem for every game this season as well (although haven't had time to do the Bournemouth one yet). Did you hear me flogging it on Radio Suffolk last night? It's on iPlayer, probably, of you want to listen to my dulcet tones! |
Im having discussions with people. Various posters. There will be a lot of posts. If it was in person it would be an easier chat. But its not i can only respond one at a time.
I didnt see your radio suffolk link so sorry. Will have a listen :) | |
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| Cut Walton some slack on 13:59 - Nov 10 | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Cut Walton some slack on 09:07 - Nov 10 by DJR |
The goalkeeping position was discussed on the KOA podcast yesterday.
Mark Heath, Stuart Watson and Ross Hall all thought it best to stick with Walton, not least because of the danger of chopping and changing goalkeeper becoming a feature, if Scherpen weren't to perfom.
They also played a clip from O'Neil which suggested Walton is doing better in training and that O'Neil is not minded to change.
At the end of the day, Walton has got better with his feet but will never be a Hladky, but I don't recall him ever being responsible in the same way for a goal as he was on Saturday.
More generally, it is probably possible with many goals any keeper concedes to argue they could have done better, and this is certainly something that will happen if people don't rate a keeper. [Post edited 10 Nov 9:13]
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You can’t drop someone on “form” and then keep their replacement in if they’re playing badly and costing the team points in multiple games in a row.
There will be a tipping point and if things don’t improve it will be soon enough.
The idea of keeping a your GK in when he’s costing your side goals weekly is ludicrous.
I suspect GON is already regretting some of his previous comments after the last 2 games. |  |
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| Indeed on 14:48 - Nov 10 | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Indeed on 11:32 - Nov 10 by FrimleyBlue |
Im having discussions with people. Various posters. There will be a lot of posts. If it was in person it would be an easier chat. But its not i can only respond one at a time.
I didnt see your radio suffolk link so sorry. Will have a listen :) |
We're all having discussions with various people. That's what a forum is! No-one's been quite so prolific in telling us what they think of Walton though.
Can you povide any evidence of me ignoring things and/or clinging to the past? | |
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| Cut Walton some slack on 15:49 - Nov 10 | itfcjoe |
I think the PL asks so much of goalkeepers that there is no environment in world football bar latter stages of Champions League which you can use as a testing ground - finding the right one is a punt or prohibitively expensive to the point where as a newly promoted side even if you can afford one of that quality then you can’t attract them because of your status
It was only 2 weeks ago that James Trafford (England GK, £40m signing this summer) just passes the ball under no pressure to Kluivert who gives Evanilson an open goal - Bournemouth's press is intense and they force mistakes nearly every week
It's a bad mistake from Walton, but once he hasn't cleared it first time....I see people in here saying he could have passed it to Diop or Pala.....they just weren't on, once he's taken his touch his only real option was to just try and poke it anywhere away from goal and not lose it, neither ideal scenarios!
I think Walton has been broadly fine for us so far, a massive deal is made out of a FK that got past him last week (that I think he should have saved) coupled up with this as massive evidence that he is costing us goals every week and in no way PL standard, it's way OTT
Clear the defence feel comfortable with Walton behind them in goal, and whatever stats people want to look at there is no way that Scherpen passes any eye test at the moment, he was a rabbit in headlights with the ball and just didn't save a lot of shots due to bad positioning or slow reactions.
Walton is the best we've got, if we can upgrade in January then brilliant, if not I suspect he'll be fine and we'll be fine - but finidng a top GK to replace him isn't going to be easy - as we've found out over the last 3 years |  |
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| Cut Walton some slack on 16:15 - Nov 10 | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Cut Walton some slack on 15:49 - Nov 10 by itfcjoe |
I think the PL asks so much of goalkeepers that there is no environment in world football bar latter stages of Champions League which you can use as a testing ground - finding the right one is a punt or prohibitively expensive to the point where as a newly promoted side even if you can afford one of that quality then you can’t attract them because of your status
It was only 2 weeks ago that James Trafford (England GK, £40m signing this summer) just passes the ball under no pressure to Kluivert who gives Evanilson an open goal - Bournemouth's press is intense and they force mistakes nearly every week
It's a bad mistake from Walton, but once he hasn't cleared it first time....I see people in here saying he could have passed it to Diop or Pala.....they just weren't on, once he's taken his touch his only real option was to just try and poke it anywhere away from goal and not lose it, neither ideal scenarios!
I think Walton has been broadly fine for us so far, a massive deal is made out of a FK that got past him last week (that I think he should have saved) coupled up with this as massive evidence that he is costing us goals every week and in no way PL standard, it's way OTT
Clear the defence feel comfortable with Walton behind them in goal, and whatever stats people want to look at there is no way that Scherpen passes any eye test at the moment, he was a rabbit in headlights with the ball and just didn't save a lot of shots due to bad positioning or slow reactions.
Walton is the best we've got, if we can upgrade in January then brilliant, if not I suspect he'll be fine and we'll be fine - but finidng a top GK to replace him isn't going to be easy - as we've found out over the last 3 years |
I largely agree with your takes Joe, but I think you are off here.
If Scherpen doesn't pass the eye test in terms of not saving shots due to bad positioning or slow reactions it's laughable that Walton does.
Last week was not the first goal he got a hand to that still hit the back of the net when it wasn't in the corner.
His positioning is poor he does not make it harder for attacker for multiple goals conceded including Hulls first last week and at Man City. They just tap into a half empty goal. He's fine when the ball is at height to parry away but he is poor in other areas.
He may have improved with his feet since L1 but it's far from a strength.
I didn't like what we saw from Scherpen either but if we play CW for the next 28 games, I think we will get relegated. Of course, there is a greater conversation to had about the defense as well.
Trafford was that money for a reason, he has saved 82% of his shots and prevented 4.40 goals. We were never going to get that this season but we needed to find an upgrade in the market on Walton, something in my opinion with the funds available that should have been achievable in multiple attempts. Surprised we went with someone the profile of Scherpen physically. | |
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| Cut Walton some slack on 16:21 - Nov 10 | itfcjoe |
| Cut Walton some slack on 16:15 - Nov 10 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I largely agree with your takes Joe, but I think you are off here.
If Scherpen doesn't pass the eye test in terms of not saving shots due to bad positioning or slow reactions it's laughable that Walton does.
Last week was not the first goal he got a hand to that still hit the back of the net when it wasn't in the corner.
His positioning is poor he does not make it harder for attacker for multiple goals conceded including Hulls first last week and at Man City. They just tap into a half empty goal. He's fine when the ball is at height to parry away but he is poor in other areas.
He may have improved with his feet since L1 but it's far from a strength.
I didn't like what we saw from Scherpen either but if we play CW for the next 28 games, I think we will get relegated. Of course, there is a greater conversation to had about the defense as well.
Trafford was that money for a reason, he has saved 82% of his shots and prevented 4.40 goals. We were never going to get that this season but we needed to find an upgrade in the market on Walton, something in my opinion with the funds available that should have been achievable in multiple attempts. Surprised we went with someone the profile of Scherpen physically. |
Scherpen's eye test is the whole package, he can't play out from the back at all and is worse with his feet than Walton, plus put everyone on edge defensively which was hurting us.
Think you are being unduly harsh on his shot stopping, Goals Prevented is a very noisy stat and not always the best - I don't think Walton is the long term answer for us in the PL, but think fans and rest of the team are more comfortable with him there than they were Scherpen and he's just getting better by his absence - but I'd suggest people go back and watch his games (away from goals/saves)
All 3 promoted clubs are struggling with keepers, was the same last year too - bar sudnerland who looked to have hit jackpot with Roefs, who has now been poor this season! It's bloody tough, but think he'll prove to be a good enough holder of the position over the season if we can't get a proper upgrade in January (which is unlikely) | |
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| Cut Walton some slack on 16:30 - Nov 10 | DJR |
I mentioned O'Neil's comments on Walton in an earlier post, and these are them in full: the second paragraph seeming to be the key one given he picks the team. 
"Quizzed on his thoughts on the goalkeeping situation following Walton’s error today and supporters’ frustrations, O’Neil said: “Definitely nothing knee-jerk. Unless I bump into a fan, I’m not going to hear any of that noise anyway.
“Just watch them work every day. Walts has been better than Kjell for the last few weeks, which is why he’s got the shirt at the moment.
“If Kjell can show me he’s better than Walts or if Palms [Alex Palmer] can show me he’s better than both of them, then me and Reg [Rene Gilmartin], the goalkeeper coach, who has a big say in this stuff, he works with them every moment of every day, we’ll choose the one who’s best in goal at that moment.
“Walts is a good goalkeeper. He’s been here a long time, he’s steady. Today isn’t a mistake that Walts makes very often.
“We try to pass the ball, of course we do, it’s the Premier League, we’re not going to boot the ball to the top all the time.
“But once we’d tried to pass the ball and it’s come back from Dara [O’Shea] to Walts, Walts knows that we should go to the top line at that moment and we should be safe.
“We talk about it a lot with the players. We choose where we lose the ball, so if we get in a situation that is uncomfortable at any moment, we lose the ball as far away from our goal as possible.
“But that’s really easy to say, it’s really easy to sometimes do in training. Sometimes something can happen in a game that just throws you for a second and Evanilson is very good at pressing like that.
“Walts has made a slight mistake there. Maybe I’ve made a slight mistake in not being clear enough with him on, ‘when it comes back to you mate, this needs to go to the top!’." [Post edited 10 Nov 16:38]
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| Cut Walton some slack on 16:31 - Nov 10 | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Cut Walton some slack on 16:21 - Nov 10 by itfcjoe |
Scherpen's eye test is the whole package, he can't play out from the back at all and is worse with his feet than Walton, plus put everyone on edge defensively which was hurting us.
Think you are being unduly harsh on his shot stopping, Goals Prevented is a very noisy stat and not always the best - I don't think Walton is the long term answer for us in the PL, but think fans and rest of the team are more comfortable with him there than they were Scherpen and he's just getting better by his absence - but I'd suggest people go back and watch his games (away from goals/saves)
All 3 promoted clubs are struggling with keepers, was the same last year too - bar sudnerland who looked to have hit jackpot with Roefs, who has now been poor this season! It's bloody tough, but think he'll prove to be a good enough holder of the position over the season if we can't get a proper upgrade in January (which is unlikely) |
He looked suspect with his feet no doubt but it's interesting to me we have come to full conclusions on the entire package with such limited minutes of football. I think the best evidence of shot stopping when have seen from any keeper this year is actually the game in which we conceded 5.
What is clear that the recruitment direction needs evaluation. I had concerns about ball playing ability and athleticism with his physical profile. Seems recruitment is relying too much on data rather than traditional scouting. Not that I have sat and watched and entire season of USG but some people are paid to do so.
I think Liverpool was likely the game that buried Scherpen in terms of goals conceded, the goals he conceded at Palace were no way worse than what CW conceded at Hull, City and on obviously the first on Sunday.
I do standby I don't think we will survive a season of Walton but I hope you are right. [Post edited 10 Nov 16:35]
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| Cut Walton some slack on 16:37 - Nov 10 | FrimleyBlue |
| Cut Walton some slack on 16:21 - Nov 10 by itfcjoe |
Scherpen's eye test is the whole package, he can't play out from the back at all and is worse with his feet than Walton, plus put everyone on edge defensively which was hurting us.
Think you are being unduly harsh on his shot stopping, Goals Prevented is a very noisy stat and not always the best - I don't think Walton is the long term answer for us in the PL, but think fans and rest of the team are more comfortable with him there than they were Scherpen and he's just getting better by his absence - but I'd suggest people go back and watch his games (away from goals/saves)
All 3 promoted clubs are struggling with keepers, was the same last year too - bar sudnerland who looked to have hit jackpot with Roefs, who has now been poor this season! It's bloody tough, but think he'll prove to be a good enough holder of the position over the season if we can't get a proper upgrade in January (which is unlikely) |
I'd suggest people go back and watch his games (away from goals/saves)
How about we see how he does with a better more organised defence in front of him. If the defence felt on edge, think who the keeper felt with Diop running halfway up the pitch leaving greaves and scherpen to defend whilst oshea struggled back from halfway himself.
PLUS we didn't buy him for his short passing, his long pass distribution was his strength last season, waltons been allowed to go longer more than scherpen was. Odd really.
Also in what world was palacios pass not on
[Post edited 10 Nov 16:43]
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| Indeed on 17:21 - Nov 10 | billlm |
| Indeed on 15:52 - Nov 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No probably about it - the feature is called 'My Town Top 10', and I'm also talking to Brenner about my book. It would be a bit weird to be talking about someone else!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/p
26:56 |
Cool,
Il listen in a bit, |  | | |
| Cut Walton some slack on 07:12 - Nov 11 | Dubtractor |
| Cut Walton some slack on 16:21 - Nov 10 by itfcjoe |
Scherpen's eye test is the whole package, he can't play out from the back at all and is worse with his feet than Walton, plus put everyone on edge defensively which was hurting us.
Think you are being unduly harsh on his shot stopping, Goals Prevented is a very noisy stat and not always the best - I don't think Walton is the long term answer for us in the PL, but think fans and rest of the team are more comfortable with him there than they were Scherpen and he's just getting better by his absence - but I'd suggest people go back and watch his games (away from goals/saves)
All 3 promoted clubs are struggling with keepers, was the same last year too - bar sudnerland who looked to have hit jackpot with Roefs, who has now been poor this season! It's bloody tough, but think he'll prove to be a good enough holder of the position over the season if we can't get a proper upgrade in January (which is unlikely) |
Personally feel that Walton isn't good enough, but I 100% agree with your views on Sherpen.
He looked so far from the level in every game he played. Shotstopping, getting down for low down shots, kicking, really indecisive in coming out, bad decisions when he did come out.
I live in hope that its about nerves from him, and once more confident we'll see more what made us buy him, but even then that lack of composure is a huge issue. As you mentioned there is no hiding place in this league, and a keeper needs a rock solid temperament. [Post edited 11 Nov 7:12]
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| Cut Walton some slack on 09:29 - Nov 11 | itfcjoe |
| Cut Walton some slack on 16:31 - Nov 10 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
He looked suspect with his feet no doubt but it's interesting to me we have come to full conclusions on the entire package with such limited minutes of football. I think the best evidence of shot stopping when have seen from any keeper this year is actually the game in which we conceded 5.
What is clear that the recruitment direction needs evaluation. I had concerns about ball playing ability and athleticism with his physical profile. Seems recruitment is relying too much on data rather than traditional scouting. Not that I have sat and watched and entire season of USG but some people are paid to do so.
I think Liverpool was likely the game that buried Scherpen in terms of goals conceded, the goals he conceded at Palace were no way worse than what CW conceded at Hull, City and on obviously the first on Sunday.
I do standby I don't think we will survive a season of Walton but I hope you are right. [Post edited 10 Nov 16:35]
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I don't think it is necessarily about the type of goals conceded which buried Scherpen, it was just the whole package - he looked like the game was too fast for him in general, he couldn't pass out from the back and his long kicking was barely staying on the pitch - he was just booming it out into the lower tiers time and time again.
I don't think there is anyway you can put him back in the team currently from what I've seen, his main hope for this season is if something happens to Walton and he gets another opportunity and he is more settled and able to take it.
Hard to know what happened in pre season, because think there was a desire for Walton and Scherpen to battle it out, but Walton was injured for the majority of it, the Scherpen signing dragged out a bit until end of July; and then he wasn't deemed ready to make his pre season debut and missed 2 or 3 games which was far from ideal.
Ultimately we are where we are, it's not ideal but Walton's performances have been a long way ahead of Scherpen's this season; that's not to right Scherpen off forever, and hopefully he's able to turn it round at some point for us....but £8m for a PL keeper is nothing, so it's not a massive investment and can be a longer term one | |
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| Cut Walton some slack on 10:59 - Nov 11 | LankHenners |
| Cut Walton some slack on 09:29 - Nov 11 by itfcjoe |
I don't think it is necessarily about the type of goals conceded which buried Scherpen, it was just the whole package - he looked like the game was too fast for him in general, he couldn't pass out from the back and his long kicking was barely staying on the pitch - he was just booming it out into the lower tiers time and time again.
I don't think there is anyway you can put him back in the team currently from what I've seen, his main hope for this season is if something happens to Walton and he gets another opportunity and he is more settled and able to take it.
Hard to know what happened in pre season, because think there was a desire for Walton and Scherpen to battle it out, but Walton was injured for the majority of it, the Scherpen signing dragged out a bit until end of July; and then he wasn't deemed ready to make his pre season debut and missed 2 or 3 games which was far from ideal.
Ultimately we are where we are, it's not ideal but Walton's performances have been a long way ahead of Scherpen's this season; that's not to right Scherpen off forever, and hopefully he's able to turn it round at some point for us....but £8m for a PL keeper is nothing, so it's not a massive investment and can be a longer term one |
Think it's very generous to say Walton's performances have been a 'long way ahead' of Scherpen's to be honest. If the plan all along was to have Walton as anything more than a back-up if the first choice got injured then I seriously question our thinking in that department.
Not basing this on anything def info but seems to me we were happy to eschew a ball-playing ability in the GK to some degree to have a solid one that saves shots and commands his area, given our box was likely to be put under a lot of pressure this season (KVO an exception maybe but obviously a development purchase). Clearly Scherpen looked shaky on all fronts for whatever reason and O'Neil felt he had to act quickly to get him out of the firing line, but it's put us in this position where we're playing a painfully sub-par GK who's costing us points and we can't put anyone else in instead.
Do think it's a very hard position to recruit for for a number of reasons, and furthermore quite hard to look good in as you'll be very busy and your mistakes are put under a microscope, plus in our case half our drip fanbase are desperate to make Muric comparisons and as such will get on a new GK's back very quickly and unnecessarily. Does sort of feel like unless you want to blow a hole in your budget you need to have a case of good timing when someone like Caoimhin Kelleher becomes available - able at this level but at too big a club to play every week. |  |
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| Cut Walton some slack on 11:51 - Nov 11 | Smoresy |
| Cut Walton some slack on 16:30 - Nov 10 by DJR |
I mentioned O'Neil's comments on Walton in an earlier post, and these are them in full: the second paragraph seeming to be the key one given he picks the team.
"Quizzed on his thoughts on the goalkeeping situation following Walton’s error today and supporters’ frustrations, O’Neil said: “Definitely nothing knee-jerk. Unless I bump into a fan, I’m not going to hear any of that noise anyway.
“Just watch them work every day. Walts has been better than Kjell for the last few weeks, which is why he’s got the shirt at the moment.
“If Kjell can show me he’s better than Walts or if Palms [Alex Palmer] can show me he’s better than both of them, then me and Reg [Rene Gilmartin], the goalkeeper coach, who has a big say in this stuff, he works with them every moment of every day, we’ll choose the one who’s best in goal at that moment.
“Walts is a good goalkeeper. He’s been here a long time, he’s steady. Today isn’t a mistake that Walts makes very often.
“We try to pass the ball, of course we do, it’s the Premier League, we’re not going to boot the ball to the top all the time.
“But once we’d tried to pass the ball and it’s come back from Dara [O’Shea] to Walts, Walts knows that we should go to the top line at that moment and we should be safe.
“We talk about it a lot with the players. We choose where we lose the ball, so if we get in a situation that is uncomfortable at any moment, we lose the ball as far away from our goal as possible.
“But that’s really easy to say, it’s really easy to sometimes do in training. Sometimes something can happen in a game that just throws you for a second and Evanilson is very good at pressing like that.
“Walts has made a slight mistake there. Maybe I’ve made a slight mistake in not being clear enough with him on, ‘when it comes back to you mate, this needs to go to the top!’." [Post edited 10 Nov 16:38]
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It is key and I agree with others that we shouldn't make a change simply because Walton isn't performing as well as we'd hope. He's hardly performing at a standard whereby it's impossible to imagine worse, and I have no faith in Scherpen transforming himself for the cameras if he's below Walton in training ("rabbit in headlights" as mentioned above).
Not quite the grinning occasion for me (😅) because I fear for the situation we've found ourselves in again. I see a good Championship player in the most exposed position on the pitch, to whom the least help may be offered by PL quality elsewhere. We could be protecting our goal far better in front of him of course but it remains a uniquely vulnerable hole to fill, moreso than any other IMO. If a genie had offered me the chance to guarantee PL quality in just one position over the summer then I would have chosen sticksman.
Lastly, Kjell costing £8-10m doesn't tempt me to reconsider Walton's level or adjust his market value upwards. Or the fact that we've tried to upgrade multiple times before, yet Walton has persisted. It's just another wayward GK purchase, understanding that Kjell isn't even outperforming others where the lights are turned down lower (not to write him off forever, but he was signed to improve us instantly - we would have signed another had we known he wouldn't do that). Perhaps Joe is right and it's just impossibly difficult to recruit more reliably for this position with our present stature. | | | |
| Cut Walton some slack on 14:47 - Nov 11 | itfcjoe |
| Cut Walton some slack on 10:59 - Nov 11 by LankHenners |
Think it's very generous to say Walton's performances have been a 'long way ahead' of Scherpen's to be honest. If the plan all along was to have Walton as anything more than a back-up if the first choice got injured then I seriously question our thinking in that department.
Not basing this on anything def info but seems to me we were happy to eschew a ball-playing ability in the GK to some degree to have a solid one that saves shots and commands his area, given our box was likely to be put under a lot of pressure this season (KVO an exception maybe but obviously a development purchase). Clearly Scherpen looked shaky on all fronts for whatever reason and O'Neil felt he had to act quickly to get him out of the firing line, but it's put us in this position where we're playing a painfully sub-par GK who's costing us points and we can't put anyone else in instead.
Do think it's a very hard position to recruit for for a number of reasons, and furthermore quite hard to look good in as you'll be very busy and your mistakes are put under a microscope, plus in our case half our drip fanbase are desperate to make Muric comparisons and as such will get on a new GK's back very quickly and unnecessarily. Does sort of feel like unless you want to blow a hole in your budget you need to have a case of good timing when someone like Caoimhin Kelleher becomes available - able at this level but at too big a club to play every week. |
Maybe not a long way ahead, but I certainly generally feel comfortable with Walton in nest where just didn't at all with Scherpen there almost from his first action in a town shirt he looked a bag of nerves and didn't improve
Yep, you need a bit of luck when recruiting a keeper, or be able to get away with it somewhat - look at Leeds last year, dropped £16m on Lucas Perri and end up with Karl Darlow starting 25 games who started the season as a 35 year old keeper who'd started 50 PL games in his career and half a dozen times for Wales.
I think Walton is capable of putting that sort of season together, but probably needs a rejig on pitch to give him more protection - similar to how we changed after the Charlton game last season with regards to the midfield balance after 1 clean sheet in 10 | |
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| Cut Walton some slack on 16:00 - Nov 11 | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Cut Walton some slack on 09:29 - Nov 11 by itfcjoe |
I don't think it is necessarily about the type of goals conceded which buried Scherpen, it was just the whole package - he looked like the game was too fast for him in general, he couldn't pass out from the back and his long kicking was barely staying on the pitch - he was just booming it out into the lower tiers time and time again.
I don't think there is anyway you can put him back in the team currently from what I've seen, his main hope for this season is if something happens to Walton and he gets another opportunity and he is more settled and able to take it.
Hard to know what happened in pre season, because think there was a desire for Walton and Scherpen to battle it out, but Walton was injured for the majority of it, the Scherpen signing dragged out a bit until end of July; and then he wasn't deemed ready to make his pre season debut and missed 2 or 3 games which was far from ideal.
Ultimately we are where we are, it's not ideal but Walton's performances have been a long way ahead of Scherpen's this season; that's not to right Scherpen off forever, and hopefully he's able to turn it round at some point for us....but £8m for a PL keeper is nothing, so it's not a massive investment and can be a longer term one |
You're still giving Walton too much credit IMO. He literally has had mistakes in last two games that arguably cost us points. Man City he was hardly flawless either.
I am not necessarily saying we should but him back in, but a long way ahead? Not for me, Walton has been poor in multiple games. He has been at this club years and was never established a true number one throughout his tenure season on season, even in the Championship. That should tell us a fair bit. [Post edited 11 Nov 16:01]
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