| However, far away 01:02 - Aug 22 with 1950 views | Mullet |
Only a club like Derby could play at place still known to most of us as Pride Park. Yet for all of their expensive falls just short of promotion “two midtable teams” and “two lucky goals” was the verdict of one home fan as we left the place. Leaving his hands unsnapped and intact at the offering of that midtable finish aside, there were 700 or so Ipswich fans pledging their allegiance until “[they] die” at full time. Defeat hung in the air, a humidity atop of the defiance yet again.
There was little change from Hurst. Bart and the same back four of Donacien, Nsiala, Chambers and Knudsen. Skuse and Chalobah sometimes the point and centre of diamond with Edwards and Ward at the edges, Nolan ahead in the shadow of Harrison. What looked in passages of play flat and 4-4-1-1 was also a 4-1-3-1-1 that defies convention in the written and visual sense.
Derby were all Frank Lampard. Evident experience and the questionable or untested ran through their lineup, and after 3 minutes or so, ours as well. A first shot from the creativity of Lawrence, off balance and off target, warned and reminded us of past times.
When Grant Ward finally tested Carson’s hands with a drop inside and shot at goal 39 minutes had passed slower than our midfield had been. Derby had seen defensive midfielder George Evans substituted, and his replacement Joe Ledley come into the game. At the start of the half it had looked like Nolan might not finish it, limping from a heavy knock before running it off. Those differences changed and dictated how the midfield was won or lost all night.
Ipswich had the better of the opening exchanges after roughly 10 minutes. Harrison ran down the youthful right back Bogle and put him on his ass. His head went right after his balance, and for a long time the potential was there for Ward or Knudsen to get past him. Sometimes they did, sometimes they found Nolan or Skuse to break forward. Rarely did any of them find a way to breakthrough.
Both teams liked to play out from the back, but the Ipswich old boy Keogh had space and cover to move the ball easily, as the impressive Chelsea defender Tomori did all the hard work. Often, he and Harrison tried to swap shirts but gave each other little.
Edwards was a spectator behind the rolling roadblock of Craigs. Forsyth and Bryson and pushing him out or inside of where the ball needed to go to really hurt the home side.
When our wingers did swap it was Ward who earnt a free kick and yellow out of the left back. However, both were soon back where they started as was the ball placed down where the foul occurred around the halfway line.
The Ipswich/Chelsea connections that traversed the lineups and fixture combined nicely when Trevoh slowly turned his L plates to his team mates, and was so busy looking at Bart, he slipped in his London colleague Mason Mount for an easy run and poor shot at goal in a dangerous area. It seemed at times neither side could finish, with Nugent of all people watching shots that might have been crosses fizz ahead of him like the game seemed to be doing as he is reaching his dotage.
Whilst Town struggled to get out of their half too often, or the ball to the feet of runners like Edwards. Some neat switch passes and interplay did set us away. When Derby were caught high, it was the slowest man on the field Keogh who was quick to haul Harrison down; before he could cross the Rubicon of halfway again and launch an assault on an isolated Carson. The booking was obvious, but so was the sense that our best chance to counter a pillow-punching Derby had gone too.
The ref had had an excellent 45 minutes, even if neither side had. Derby looked much worse than in previous encounters, but in no real danger. Town’s corners and cross field balls had improved tonight, but when the second ball did, we didn’t seem to believe in second chances. Chalobah’s first floater from outside the box was a very different proposition to one we’d see after the break.
You sensed that the phenomenal record Ipswich had in this fixture stretched back so far, and passed so many managers for either side, that in the crease of the annals where Arturo Lupoli sat, little stirred in the way of omens tonight. Those superstitious amongst us could find nothing in half time tealeaves to suggest how and why things might really change, stale was the game Mate.
It’s hard to know what Hurst read into the opening 45 minutes. But the teams weren’t out long when the yellow card was too. Skuse late to Ledley. The Welshman turned his back expertly to win the foul and shield the ball. The caution was all in the Town midfielder’s challenge and the awarding of the card an afterthought.
The number 8 who had been up and down a lot tonight in a good way, was soon replaced by Flynn Downes. Whether this was protection from a second-second yellow in sequential games, the effects of playing with ten men on Saturday or whether Hurst just reads the data from those little sports bras all game and lets the lingerie decide, who’s to say? But that was Cole’s final word and deed pretty much.
Possession seemed to be mostly with Derby, but Town’s backline seemed more than resilient tonight. It was still hard to pinpoint a shot or pass from the Rams, that really cracked too many chinks of light on where the break would come. That was until again a ball to the back post proved our undoing.
A player from each side jumped, the ball went behind, the linesman flagged for a goalkick. The referee with an inferior view, but superior position gave a corner. Town’s travelling hundreds sounded like thousands in their disapproval. Toto headed the set piece away bravely, but it was the second ball that slapped us in the face and left us with a sense of shame, injustice and regret. Ledley’s thunderous finishing shot towards goal, might have been deflected, but it was not to be stopped. 1-0. Sh1t.
Town’s second substitution would have a similar effect. Predictably Harrison who had ran and jumped all game across the defence and goal he was attacking whilst never getting near enough to testing either, was off. Jackson was on.
Nolan who had sat back a little by now, moved up with the wingers and let Derby know that there was pace and potential in the attack if nothing else. At the other end, one of the many former Blues in the opposition squad would decide the game. Many times did we see Tom Lawrence press the equivalent of the real life sprint button on Fifa, and then win a free kick or the right to shoot. He did all of those here. A soft free kick on the angle from 20 yards.
Bart knew as we all did what might be coming. The quiff bounced, the ball did too, off the wall, off Bart’s hand into the corner for 2-0. Sh1t and fiddlesticks. The air rushed out of us quicker than the wall could, and Town were deflated. You could feel (and in the case of someone nearby, smell) it.
It was again hard to see where a Town goal might come from. Was it Edwards on the right, Ward on the left, Chalobah from deep or Jackson in the middle, maybe Nolan getting on the end of it from a run into the box? None of those things happened in synchronicity. Town screwed crosses low and high in front of crowds but never picked out the decisive runner or rider of challenges to finish.
Swapping Edwards for Roberts a few minutes from time merely swapped Ward’s wing to run down again. The sub on the left, and the right side of fans wanting to see Blue shirts run at defenders with the ball.
Before that former Bee Jozefzoon flew onto the field and offered a real contrast in spending, depth and expectations. He gave Knudsen and company a torrid time, but never found later sub Marriott or anyone else to add a third.
Neither side really found a shot or favourable touch to put the keepers in trouble. And as the final whistle came so did the sense that another win here, or a first for Hurst would have to wait. It was the anniversary of Peterborough 7-1 Ipswich the other day. It sits right in the middle of the unbeaten run that was just halted. Such is the scope of such meaningless records over progress. However, the immediate showings from the new Boss leave a darkness on the edge of winless Town. Still yet to overshadow the positivity that poured at full time.
The subs remain the same, the approach, the lack of finishing, the gameplan overall does too. But the defence looks stronger, the challenge of the movement off the ball and clinical nature of the opposition greater, and yet we dealt with it. Somewhere amongst those variables and individual improvements of players like Ward and Donacien you sense that three points will come at once, but not on nights like this.
Odin gave his eye in Norse mythology to have greater insight, greater power and greater knowledge of the chaos that lay ahead in his story. It’s hard to believe being one-eyed in the real world helps us right now. Better Derby teams have lost to all kinds of Ipswich teams before, what matters is remembering how we refined that winning way.
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| However, far away on 08:03 - Aug 22 with 1725 views | Steve_M |
Despite conceding two fairly poor goals again, I'm more comfortable with the defensive resilience of this side that I was as well. I don't think we'll concede many or be totally outplayed very often.
The concerns are at the other end of the pitch, I couldn't understand why some fans were getting so excited about Rotherham when we rarely looked like scoring against a very poor side. It was the same yesterday against a better one: one shot from Ward and a mis-timed header from Chambers at 0-0 was about it.
It was notable that some players struggled with decision making, Edwards did early on, trying to beat players who have a bit more nous than defenders in League 1, and Harrison did throughout.
We've also faded fairly badly in every match bar the Villa one, that should come with fitness but it will have been noted by opposition managers in the short-term. At least Jackson and Roberts dragged that back to some extent yesterday.
Goals though, we don't look like scoring many of them - who could have predicted this when we lost three good Championship forwards in the Summer - and without them Hurst won't get the time to implement what he wants to do properly. |  |
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| However, far away on 08:08 - Aug 22 with 1684 views | cbower |
On the positive side, Donacien looked much better than the Rotherham game. I had hoped I was a little hasty about him and so it would seem. Toto will be fine even if he sometimes has your heart in your mouth. Nolan does not look out of his depth by any means and fashioned himself a couple of shots which is encouraging (albeit poorly struck). Got to feel for the boy Harrison though. He worked very hard. Won countless flick headers but there is no one there to benefit. His touch is not quite good enough at times. This system will only work if our wide players (including full backs) really bomb on and at least one of the central midfielders joins Harrison much more frequently, preferably getting beyond him at times. Yes, it is nice to see us passing it more but not once after 1-0 did I feel we looked remotely like getting back into it. Most worrying has to be the lack of reaction fro Hurst to the second goal. Did he genuinely believe an isolated Jackson would prove any more effective than Harrison had been? Surely that was the time to change the system and see if Jackson could pick up some of Harrison's flicks? Roberts did ok though and got a few decentish balls into the box. Bart has barely made a save of note in the two league games we have lost. Not sure what that says! |  |
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| However, far away on 08:39 - Aug 22 with 1608 views | urbanblue |
| However, far away on 08:03 - Aug 22 by Steve_M |
Despite conceding two fairly poor goals again, I'm more comfortable with the defensive resilience of this side that I was as well. I don't think we'll concede many or be totally outplayed very often.
The concerns are at the other end of the pitch, I couldn't understand why some fans were getting so excited about Rotherham when we rarely looked like scoring against a very poor side. It was the same yesterday against a better one: one shot from Ward and a mis-timed header from Chambers at 0-0 was about it.
It was notable that some players struggled with decision making, Edwards did early on, trying to beat players who have a bit more nous than defenders in League 1, and Harrison did throughout.
We've also faded fairly badly in every match bar the Villa one, that should come with fitness but it will have been noted by opposition managers in the short-term. At least Jackson and Roberts dragged that back to some extent yesterday.
Goals though, we don't look like scoring many of them - who could have predicted this when we lost three good Championship forwards in the Summer - and without them Hurst won't get the time to implement what he wants to do properly. |
These are all problems that will have been noted and worked on by Hurst and the management team I have no doubt. If we are all commenting on the problems there can be no doubt they will be looking to improve these aspects as well. In the situation of building a new team and squad there will be things that will work, players that will perform, and others that won't work out quite as well initially. It will be a gradual process.
To expect everything to click immediately is just not going to happen. It will take a bit of time but I have faith that where we are lacking will be addressed. |  | | |
| However, far away on 08:42 - Aug 22 with 1594 views | Steve_M |
| However, far away on 08:08 - Aug 22 by cbower |
On the positive side, Donacien looked much better than the Rotherham game. I had hoped I was a little hasty about him and so it would seem. Toto will be fine even if he sometimes has your heart in your mouth. Nolan does not look out of his depth by any means and fashioned himself a couple of shots which is encouraging (albeit poorly struck). Got to feel for the boy Harrison though. He worked very hard. Won countless flick headers but there is no one there to benefit. His touch is not quite good enough at times. This system will only work if our wide players (including full backs) really bomb on and at least one of the central midfielders joins Harrison much more frequently, preferably getting beyond him at times. Yes, it is nice to see us passing it more but not once after 1-0 did I feel we looked remotely like getting back into it. Most worrying has to be the lack of reaction fro Hurst to the second goal. Did he genuinely believe an isolated Jackson would prove any more effective than Harrison had been? Surely that was the time to change the system and see if Jackson could pick up some of Harrison's flicks? Roberts did ok though and got a few decentish balls into the box. Bart has barely made a save of note in the two league games we have lost. Not sure what that says! |
Nsiala has a bad habit of diving into tackles where he doesn't need to, the Rotherham winner came from one (even if he looked to have won the ball) and he should have been booked for a late one yesterday. Not sure it was a foul that Lawrence scored from though, looked like TL ran into him intentionally.
Yes, definitely a lack of players in the final third to be much of a threat. I'm less concerned about last night over all than I am about Rotherham but there are a couple of clear trends even this early in the season. | |
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| However, far away on 09:15 - Aug 22 with 1523 views | Mullet |
| However, far away on 08:03 - Aug 22 by Steve_M |
Despite conceding two fairly poor goals again, I'm more comfortable with the defensive resilience of this side that I was as well. I don't think we'll concede many or be totally outplayed very often.
The concerns are at the other end of the pitch, I couldn't understand why some fans were getting so excited about Rotherham when we rarely looked like scoring against a very poor side. It was the same yesterday against a better one: one shot from Ward and a mis-timed header from Chambers at 0-0 was about it.
It was notable that some players struggled with decision making, Edwards did early on, trying to beat players who have a bit more nous than defenders in League 1, and Harrison did throughout.
We've also faded fairly badly in every match bar the Villa one, that should come with fitness but it will have been noted by opposition managers in the short-term. At least Jackson and Roberts dragged that back to some extent yesterday.
Goals though, we don't look like scoring many of them - who could have predicted this when we lost three good Championship forwards in the Summer - and without them Hurst won't get the time to implement what he wants to do properly. |
I don't think we can blame the officials again, the ref was decent and we were naïve yet again too often. The corner was a baffling decision to overrule the lino so he must have been sure. The freekick, well, we've seen Lawrence do that so many times I'm baffled Hurst hadn't drilled the defenders to expect that.
Although, the linesman at the other end did ignore a clear foul right in front of him in the second half. They just don't give decisions these days, and we are back to not working refs frustratingly.
But the backline is the one area of the team we can be happy with. It's just the lack of effect up top means we are defending far more than we need to. Especially once the wingers get worked out.
The strikers and the subs are most concerning. Waghorn didn't even come off the bench. Our subs didn't change the game or even effect it again. Bar Edun in the first match, do we see Hurst altering games and matching teams to get results? | |
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| However, far away on 09:21 - Aug 22 with 1497 views | Mullet |
| However, far away on 08:08 - Aug 22 by cbower |
On the positive side, Donacien looked much better than the Rotherham game. I had hoped I was a little hasty about him and so it would seem. Toto will be fine even if he sometimes has your heart in your mouth. Nolan does not look out of his depth by any means and fashioned himself a couple of shots which is encouraging (albeit poorly struck). Got to feel for the boy Harrison though. He worked very hard. Won countless flick headers but there is no one there to benefit. His touch is not quite good enough at times. This system will only work if our wide players (including full backs) really bomb on and at least one of the central midfielders joins Harrison much more frequently, preferably getting beyond him at times. Yes, it is nice to see us passing it more but not once after 1-0 did I feel we looked remotely like getting back into it. Most worrying has to be the lack of reaction fro Hurst to the second goal. Did he genuinely believe an isolated Jackson would prove any more effective than Harrison had been? Surely that was the time to change the system and see if Jackson could pick up some of Harrison's flicks? Roberts did ok though and got a few decentish balls into the box. Bart has barely made a save of note in the two league games we have lost. Not sure what that says! |
I feared Donacien was going to get the Knudsen boo-boy treatment after the first two games. He looks a player who might seize the opportunity now, but we don't get him forward enough. Knudsen has taken to overlapping in this system as he did the previous one. But again we don't have runners in the box, it can't just be a case of waiting for Huws to come back and it all clicking.
Nolan looks to blend into the background too much when we are chasing the game. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but when he does spring a run he needs to find a shot that counts. He, like the team aren't forcing anywhere near the saves needed.
Bart is being more exposed, it's a bit like when we had injuries and little up top under Mick but we have brought the players in, in this instance and the strikers don't look up to it - it's hard to fathom why and it's hard to see what Hurst changes to make that work. | |
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| However, far away on 09:26 - Aug 22 with 1483 views | Mullet |
| However, far away on 08:39 - Aug 22 by urbanblue |
These are all problems that will have been noted and worked on by Hurst and the management team I have no doubt. If we are all commenting on the problems there can be no doubt they will be looking to improve these aspects as well. In the situation of building a new team and squad there will be things that will work, players that will perform, and others that won't work out quite as well initially. It will be a gradual process.
To expect everything to click immediately is just not going to happen. It will take a bit of time but I have faith that where we are lacking will be addressed. |
We will start to need to evidence soon I'm afraid. We've got a derby coming and we're half way to 10 games after Saturday with a lot of chopping and changing but the same issues. We've had 4 very different oppositions and a League 2 team all pose problems we couldn't answer now.
Wednesday are in disarray at the minute, if we can't come away at least hurting them regardless of taking a point or more it has to be a legitimate concern that we are playing within ourselves.
I'm seeing a manager with a rigid way of doing business and players being expected to fit that not the other way around. Which is always fantastic if the system brings wins. | |
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| However, far away on 15:41 - Aug 22 with 1296 views | SitfcB |
It is still called Pride Park btw. Innit. |  |
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| However, far away on 15:43 - Aug 22 with 1285 views | Mullet |
| However, far away on 15:41 - Aug 22 by SitfcB |
It is still called Pride Park btw. Innit. |
Was the iPro buh, now it is "home of Frank Lampard's Derby" apparently. No Starbucks noticeable anymore either, which is a plus. | |
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| However, far away on 15:49 - Aug 22 with 1261 views | SitfcB |
| However, far away on 15:43 - Aug 22 by Mullet |
Was the iPro buh, now it is "home of Frank Lampard's Derby" apparently. No Starbucks noticeable anymore either, which is a plus. |
Yeah for a season or two!
Hope the Greggs is still there though. | |
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| However, far away on 15:50 - Aug 22 with 1255 views | PJH |
| However, far away on 15:43 - Aug 22 by Mullet |
Was the iPro buh, now it is "home of Frank Lampard's Derby" apparently. No Starbucks noticeable anymore either, which is a plus. |
We never lost at the iPro. |  | | |
| However, far away on 15:56 - Aug 22 with 1228 views | Mullet |
| However, far away on 15:50 - Aug 22 by PJH |
We never lost at the iPro. |
I'm assuming though, that our record at the Baseball ground would be wildly inferior because of this wonder run, and Derby being pretty good back in the day.
Sadly, I never went as far as I know, it was one of the predecessor grounds like Roker Park and Maine Rd. I just missed out on. | |
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| However, far away on 16:41 - Aug 22 with 1172 views | PJH |
| However, far away on 15:56 - Aug 22 by Mullet |
I'm assuming though, that our record at the Baseball ground would be wildly inferior because of this wonder run, and Derby being pretty good back in the day.
Sadly, I never went as far as I know, it was one of the predecessor grounds like Roker Park and Maine Rd. I just missed out on. |
Actually for all my years of supporting ITFC I never went to the Baseball Ground either, nor Maine Road nor Roker Park.
I did see us play Notts Forest at Notts County's ground in 1968 though. | | | |
| However, far away on 16:44 - Aug 22 with 1167 views | wkj |
| However, far away on 16:41 - Aug 22 by PJH |
Actually for all my years of supporting ITFC I never went to the Baseball Ground either, nor Maine Road nor Roker Park.
I did see us play Notts Forest at Notts County's ground in 1968 though. |
You didn't miss much about Maine Road. The coach crawl toward the grown was clearly through a really rough part of town, even for Manchester's standards. The ground feelt a bit like the Hawthornes if memory serves correct, and the angle to the pitch wasn't that great at all. |  |
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| However, far away on 18:04 - Aug 22 with 1117 views | Mullet |
| However, far away on 16:44 - Aug 22 by wkj |
You didn't miss much about Maine Road. The coach crawl toward the grown was clearly through a really rough part of town, even for Manchester's standards. The ground feelt a bit like the Hawthornes if memory serves correct, and the angle to the pitch wasn't that great at all. |
I used to live the other side of the main road from err Maine Rd. It has had a lot of money ploughed into the old site and attempts to gentrify it. Likewise over the road is being slowly inched up into studentville over the years.
It has always struggled because of the Gunchester stuff and being an immigrant community as well as the old stomping ground of a very young Morrissey. Fascinating area, great place to live, but if you're poor, foreign and young in any combination.... probably not so much.
Heard some horrible stories about the area from the 60's some of it football and non-football related. | |
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