| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 15:09 - Oct 11 with 2768 views | StokieBlue |
I'm not entirely sure you're unbiased given you posted earlier today that someones house could disappear down a hole due to fracking.
I'm not a fracking supporter, sure it would make things cheap but for the long-term it's not the way we want to go.
But in the interests of balance, in order to even feel an earthquake it would need to be 316 times bigger than the maximum allowed quake before they need to stop drilling.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 15:19 - Oct 11 with 2757 views | brazil1982 |
I know one of the Advisors to the Govt. on Fracking - see article below by him
"Fracking itself does not cause earthquakes, but fluid injection into pre-existing fault zones can cause localised slippage that can result in minor tremors, like a truck driving along the street. About 2.5m fracking operations have been carried out worldwide since its first use in the 1940s; hardly any have caused tremors, and many people in the UK have lived for decades with minor but persistent coalmining induced seismic activity. This is not a hazard."
https://www.theguardian.com/local-government-network/2013/aug/15/fracking-debate |  | | |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 19:42 - Oct 11 with 2687 views | No9 |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 15:09 - Oct 11 by StokieBlue |
I'm not entirely sure you're unbiased given you posted earlier today that someones house could disappear down a hole due to fracking.
I'm not a fracking supporter, sure it would make things cheap but for the long-term it's not the way we want to go.
But in the interests of balance, in order to even feel an earthquake it would need to be 316 times bigger than the maximum allowed quake before they need to stop drilling.
SB |
I'm not unbiased, making the comment about a house dissaperaing down the rabbit hole is more along the lines that, relative to relaxing the earthquake rules on fracking recently the government removed the need for planning applications for fracking and with directional drilling the underground bang could be miles from where the rig is.
I don't believe any of that is a good idea.
The government clains it has plans for climate change but everything they have done suggest that is lies.
This could create worthless properties for many with no compensation - is that right? | | | |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 19:45 - Oct 11 with 2680 views | WD19 |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 19:42 - Oct 11 by No9 |
I'm not unbiased, making the comment about a house dissaperaing down the rabbit hole is more along the lines that, relative to relaxing the earthquake rules on fracking recently the government removed the need for planning applications for fracking and with directional drilling the underground bang could be miles from where the rig is.
I don't believe any of that is a good idea.
The government clains it has plans for climate change but everything they have done suggest that is lies.
This could create worthless properties for many with no compensation - is that right? |
No, fracking will have no impact on peoples property values.
Tree huggers making out that fracking is the end of the world will, however, impact the property values near fracking sites.
So seems to me the nimbies need to silence the huggers. |  | | |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 19:47 - Oct 11 with 2679 views | No9 |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 15:19 - Oct 11 by brazil1982 |
I know one of the Advisors to the Govt. on Fracking - see article below by him
"Fracking itself does not cause earthquakes, but fluid injection into pre-existing fault zones can cause localised slippage that can result in minor tremors, like a truck driving along the street. About 2.5m fracking operations have been carried out worldwide since its first use in the 1940s; hardly any have caused tremors, and many people in the UK have lived for decades with minor but persistent coalmining induced seismic activity. This is not a hazard."
https://www.theguardian.com/local-government-network/2013/aug/15/fracking-debate |
Some fracking operations have created severe environmental problems + there is the question of what do you do with what comes out of the hole ? Nothing I have read either from government of explorers provides any answers.
Ask you friend to find out how many holes they may have to drill to get a commercial flow. And how many well pads they require to drill all the holes | | | |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 20:38 - Oct 11 with 2653 views | Ryorry |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 19:45 - Oct 11 by WD19 |
No, fracking will have no impact on peoples property values.
Tree huggers making out that fracking is the end of the world will, however, impact the property values near fracking sites.
So seems to me the nimbies need to silence the huggers. |
What utter rubbish.
Quite apart from anything else, a survey of all the major property insurers in this area (North Yorkshire) prior to planning consent being granted at Kirby Misperton a couple of years ago, revealed that none of them will cover damage to homes which is caused by fracking. Any claims arising would have to be made against the fracking companies themselves - I leave it to your imagination how that would go.
I'll take people who think fracking is a good idea seriously when they buy a house within a 3-mile radius of a fracking site, and go and live there with their families.
Oh, and by the way to whoever above mentioned it - if you think fracking in the UK will mean cheaper gas prices in the UK, you're being very naive. The gas would simply be sold abroad for higher prices, and/or used to manufacture more plastic.
And don't get me started on the ridiculous amounts of water required for just one wellhead - a serious problem even in the USA where they have the great rivers to draw on - partiularly given this summer's drought. Nor the hundreds of HGVs jamming up narrow country lanes totally unsuitable for them. Nor the traffic plans not adhered to, breaches of regs unreported by the industry. And that's before any consideration of climate change. To be pro-fracking, you have to either be an ostrich with a very long neck who doesn't care about his grandkids, or to have vested interests in it. |  |
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 20:48 - Oct 11 with 2643 views | StokieBlue |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 20:38 - Oct 11 by Ryorry |
What utter rubbish.
Quite apart from anything else, a survey of all the major property insurers in this area (North Yorkshire) prior to planning consent being granted at Kirby Misperton a couple of years ago, revealed that none of them will cover damage to homes which is caused by fracking. Any claims arising would have to be made against the fracking companies themselves - I leave it to your imagination how that would go.
I'll take people who think fracking is a good idea seriously when they buy a house within a 3-mile radius of a fracking site, and go and live there with their families.
Oh, and by the way to whoever above mentioned it - if you think fracking in the UK will mean cheaper gas prices in the UK, you're being very naive. The gas would simply be sold abroad for higher prices, and/or used to manufacture more plastic.
And don't get me started on the ridiculous amounts of water required for just one wellhead - a serious problem even in the USA where they have the great rivers to draw on - partiularly given this summer's drought. Nor the hundreds of HGVs jamming up narrow country lanes totally unsuitable for them. Nor the traffic plans not adhered to, breaches of regs unreported by the industry. And that's before any consideration of climate change. To be pro-fracking, you have to either be an ostrich with a very long neck who doesn't care about his grandkids, or to have vested interests in it. |
Forgive me but you're not exactly impartial in this debate and a lot of your points are very nimibish.
Living near a coal power station is far worse for your health than fracking will ever be. Do we want more coal power stations or do we want less?
I totally understand your viewpoint, you can't deny it's a not in my backyard opinion though. No evidence will ever sway you.
So it comes down to hard decisions. Coal or fracked gas. One is far better for the overall population than the other. Both are worse that renewables.
A decision must be made though.
SB
Edit: HGB on small roads is a really bad argument. Locals don't have exclusive use of those taxpayer paid for roads. [Post edited 11 Oct 2018 20:50]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 22:20 - Oct 11 with 2611 views | Ryorry |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 20:48 - Oct 11 by StokieBlue |
Forgive me but you're not exactly impartial in this debate and a lot of your points are very nimibish.
Living near a coal power station is far worse for your health than fracking will ever be. Do we want more coal power stations or do we want less?
I totally understand your viewpoint, you can't deny it's a not in my backyard opinion though. No evidence will ever sway you.
So it comes down to hard decisions. Coal or fracked gas. One is far better for the overall population than the other. Both are worse that renewables.
A decision must be made though.
SB
Edit: HGB on small roads is a really bad argument. Locals don't have exclusive use of those taxpayer paid for roads. [Post edited 11 Oct 2018 20:50]
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I am 100% impartial* and not at all nimby-ish.
*(Edit - or rather I should say that I started out researching as a completely undecided neutral - but here's the thing - the more the vast majority of people learn about fracking, the more opposed to it they become. I don't know a single person who became more convinced of its benefits after studying the pros and cons).
I don't live anywhere near any proposed site/s - not within a 25 mile radius as the crow flies anyway.
I have studied all the evidence, unlike you.
My concern is exclusively for the health and welfare of those people and animals that would be affected - which does not include me in any sense, as my 6 score years + 10 are nearly up, and I don't have kids - and for the future of the planet and generations to come - including your kids, grand-kids etc.
But hey, you carry on sticking your head in the sand, no problem.
[Post edited 11 Oct 2018 22:52]
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 22:30 - Oct 11 with 2599 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 20:38 - Oct 11 by Ryorry |
What utter rubbish.
Quite apart from anything else, a survey of all the major property insurers in this area (North Yorkshire) prior to planning consent being granted at Kirby Misperton a couple of years ago, revealed that none of them will cover damage to homes which is caused by fracking. Any claims arising would have to be made against the fracking companies themselves - I leave it to your imagination how that would go.
I'll take people who think fracking is a good idea seriously when they buy a house within a 3-mile radius of a fracking site, and go and live there with their families.
Oh, and by the way to whoever above mentioned it - if you think fracking in the UK will mean cheaper gas prices in the UK, you're being very naive. The gas would simply be sold abroad for higher prices, and/or used to manufacture more plastic.
And don't get me started on the ridiculous amounts of water required for just one wellhead - a serious problem even in the USA where they have the great rivers to draw on - partiularly given this summer's drought. Nor the hundreds of HGVs jamming up narrow country lanes totally unsuitable for them. Nor the traffic plans not adhered to, breaches of regs unreported by the industry. And that's before any consideration of climate change. To be pro-fracking, you have to either be an ostrich with a very long neck who doesn't care about his grandkids, or to have vested interests in it. |
100% agree, you had my uppie before I even got half way through!  |  | | |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 22:39 - Oct 11 with 2587 views | tcblue |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 20:48 - Oct 11 by StokieBlue |
Forgive me but you're not exactly impartial in this debate and a lot of your points are very nimibish.
Living near a coal power station is far worse for your health than fracking will ever be. Do we want more coal power stations or do we want less?
I totally understand your viewpoint, you can't deny it's a not in my backyard opinion though. No evidence will ever sway you.
So it comes down to hard decisions. Coal or fracked gas. One is far better for the overall population than the other. Both are worse that renewables.
A decision must be made though.
SB
Edit: HGB on small roads is a really bad argument. Locals don't have exclusive use of those taxpayer paid for roads. [Post edited 11 Oct 2018 20:50]
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It doesn't need to come down to a binary choice of coal and fracking. That's bonkers.
There's clearly financial interests at play. I think Dominic Grieve and Andrea Loathsome have deep ties to fossil fuels and investors at least.
The whole thing makes me sick. Why can't green renewable energy companies get better at kickbacks | | | |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 23:20 - Oct 11 with 2551 views | StokieBlue |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 22:39 - Oct 11 by tcblue |
It doesn't need to come down to a binary choice of coal and fracking. That's bonkers.
There's clearly financial interests at play. I think Dominic Grieve and Andrea Loathsome have deep ties to fossil fuels and investors at least.
The whole thing makes me sick. Why can't green renewable energy companies get better at kickbacks |
Did you read the post?
I didn't say it was a binary choice and in fact said renewables are the better option.
Between coal and fracking though fracked gas is the better option for the majority.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 23:24 - Oct 11 with 2550 views | StokieBlue |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 22:20 - Oct 11 by Ryorry |
I am 100% impartial* and not at all nimby-ish.
*(Edit - or rather I should say that I started out researching as a completely undecided neutral - but here's the thing - the more the vast majority of people learn about fracking, the more opposed to it they become. I don't know a single person who became more convinced of its benefits after studying the pros and cons).
I don't live anywhere near any proposed site/s - not within a 25 mile radius as the crow flies anyway.
I have studied all the evidence, unlike you.
My concern is exclusively for the health and welfare of those people and animals that would be affected - which does not include me in any sense, as my 6 score years + 10 are nearly up, and I don't have kids - and for the future of the planet and generations to come - including your kids, grand-kids etc.
But hey, you carry on sticking your head in the sand, no problem.
[Post edited 11 Oct 2018 22:52]
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You've studied the evidence you want to study.
Coal and other fossil fuels are worse for the environment than fracked gas. You are looking are the micro issues when you need to look at the macro issues that affect the majority.
Renewables are better. Nuclear (4th Gen) would be better but as it stands methane burning is better than coal burning for the climate as a whole.
Please explain how not using other fossil fuels rather than fracked gas is better for my kids and grandkids.
You're essentially saying the alleged (and possibly correct, which is a problem I agree) local issues are more important than the global climate.
SB [Post edited 11 Oct 2018 23:26]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 23:41 - Oct 11 with 2539 views | Ryorry |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 23:24 - Oct 11 by StokieBlue |
You've studied the evidence you want to study.
Coal and other fossil fuels are worse for the environment than fracked gas. You are looking are the micro issues when you need to look at the macro issues that affect the majority.
Renewables are better. Nuclear (4th Gen) would be better but as it stands methane burning is better than coal burning for the climate as a whole.
Please explain how not using other fossil fuels rather than fracked gas is better for my kids and grandkids.
You're essentially saying the alleged (and possibly correct, which is a problem I agree) local issues are more important than the global climate.
SB [Post edited 11 Oct 2018 23:26]
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I've studied *all* the evidence to a reasonable depth (I don't have great technical expertise, partly because the fracking companies don't give everything away). I belong to a group called "The Evidence Gatherers" which does not take either side, just looks at the actual facts.
As someone else pointed out above, it's ridiculous for you to make direct comparisons between fracked gas & other fossil fuels. I also pointed out that the UK itself is very unlikely to gain any fuel per se from fracking operations in this country, unless Third Energy, Cuadrilla etc suddenly start operating in an altruistic manner, which would certainly be a first.
I agree with you about nuclear power as it happens (despite having opposed it for the previous 6 decades or so of my life) - because at least it's comparatively stringently monitored and safe.
Generally, you're just creating a completely false, pointless debate, as highlighted by your last* (*Edit - now penultimate, because of your own edit) - para.
I'm going to bed, night night. [Post edited 11 Oct 2018 23:43]
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 07:41 - Oct 12 with 2471 views | StokieBlue |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 23:41 - Oct 11 by Ryorry |
I've studied *all* the evidence to a reasonable depth (I don't have great technical expertise, partly because the fracking companies don't give everything away). I belong to a group called "The Evidence Gatherers" which does not take either side, just looks at the actual facts.
As someone else pointed out above, it's ridiculous for you to make direct comparisons between fracked gas & other fossil fuels. I also pointed out that the UK itself is very unlikely to gain any fuel per se from fracking operations in this country, unless Third Energy, Cuadrilla etc suddenly start operating in an altruistic manner, which would certainly be a first.
I agree with you about nuclear power as it happens (despite having opposed it for the previous 6 decades or so of my life) - because at least it's comparatively stringently monitored and safe.
Generally, you're just creating a completely false, pointless debate, as highlighted by your last* (*Edit - now penultimate, because of your own edit) - para.
I'm going to bed, night night. [Post edited 11 Oct 2018 23:43]
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Why is it ridiculous to compare one fossil fuel to another?
Wherever the fuel is burnt it's better for the global climate.
I don't see how is a false or pointless debate unless you've decided there is no debate to be had.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:17 - Oct 12 with 2448 views | brazil1982 |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 23:41 - Oct 11 by Ryorry |
I've studied *all* the evidence to a reasonable depth (I don't have great technical expertise, partly because the fracking companies don't give everything away). I belong to a group called "The Evidence Gatherers" which does not take either side, just looks at the actual facts.
As someone else pointed out above, it's ridiculous for you to make direct comparisons between fracked gas & other fossil fuels. I also pointed out that the UK itself is very unlikely to gain any fuel per se from fracking operations in this country, unless Third Energy, Cuadrilla etc suddenly start operating in an altruistic manner, which would certainly be a first.
I agree with you about nuclear power as it happens (despite having opposed it for the previous 6 decades or so of my life) - because at least it's comparatively stringently monitored and safe.
Generally, you're just creating a completely false, pointless debate, as highlighted by your last* (*Edit - now penultimate, because of your own edit) - para.
I'm going to bed, night night. [Post edited 11 Oct 2018 23:43]
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You have studied all the evidence? Really?
I doubt that very much. | | | |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:19 - Oct 12 with 2444 views | brazil1982 |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 19:47 - Oct 11 by No9 |
Some fracking operations have created severe environmental problems + there is the question of what do you do with what comes out of the hole ? Nothing I have read either from government of explorers provides any answers.
Ask you friend to find out how many holes they may have to drill to get a commercial flow. And how many well pads they require to drill all the holes |
My first post was in response to "relax rules on earthquakes".
There are no "rules" currently governing earthquakes as such. Fracking does not cause earthquakes. It will no doubt lead to other environmental challenges, particularly the use and disposal of water, but that's a another area. | | | |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:41 - Oct 12 with 2427 views | StokieBlue |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:37 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
I don't think Ryorry's nimby-ish at all - she's consistently said it's a stupid direction to go in for the UK (wherever it occurs). Unless she's the Queen and owns half of the UK  |
Twas my mistake, I thought she was directly affected by the wells.
Either way though, the comparison on what fossil fuel is the least worst is valid.
It would be rather excellent if she was her Maj and posted on here :).
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:44 - Oct 12 with 2427 views | Ryorry |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:17 - Oct 12 by brazil1982 |
You have studied all the evidence? Really?
I doubt that very much. |
OK, silly comment I grant you - what I meant was evidence re every aspect of fracking.
Swansea - thanks - but you of all people should know better than to omit the "Ma'am" when addressing me! ;) | |
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:48 - Oct 12 with 2418 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:41 - Oct 12 by StokieBlue |
Twas my mistake, I thought she was directly affected by the wells.
Either way though, the comparison on what fossil fuel is the least worst is valid.
It would be rather excellent if she was her Maj and posted on here :).
SB |
Yep that's valid. That's why we switched most of our power stations from coal to natural gas isn't it. I've no problem with that as long as it's only a short-term option, but I suspect it wouldn't be and would hamper support of renewables. |  |
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:55 - Oct 12 with 2406 views | StokieBlue |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:48 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Yep that's valid. That's why we switched most of our power stations from coal to natural gas isn't it. I've no problem with that as long as it's only a short-term option, but I suspect it wouldn't be and would hamper support of renewables. |
The drive for renewables could be made much more efficient if house builders were forced by law to install solar panels on every new build or redeveloped property.
Drop in the ocean for them but a big difference when scaled up to all building work.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 10:00 - Oct 12 with 2405 views | No9 |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 20:48 - Oct 11 by StokieBlue |
Forgive me but you're not exactly impartial in this debate and a lot of your points are very nimibish.
Living near a coal power station is far worse for your health than fracking will ever be. Do we want more coal power stations or do we want less?
I totally understand your viewpoint, you can't deny it's a not in my backyard opinion though. No evidence will ever sway you.
So it comes down to hard decisions. Coal or fracked gas. One is far better for the overall population than the other. Both are worse that renewables.
A decision must be made though.
SB
Edit: HGB on small roads is a really bad argument. Locals don't have exclusive use of those taxpayer paid for roads. [Post edited 11 Oct 2018 20:50]
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You may well be wide of the mark when it comes to fracking - V - coal.
A coal fired PS can be fitted with all sorts of devices including mole sieves to clean up the emissions.
You would need to do a load of testing on fracked wells to find out what is down hole
A plant to clean up the gas is pretty expensive and takes a up a lot of room I attache here a photo of the Bacton gas terminal
http://www.northnorfolknews.co.uk/news/temporary-contractors-site-to-be-set-up-a
That is what you need to clean up the gas to enable it to be put into the mains.
If you have ever been past Bacton you may have smelt bad eggs? That is the smell of H2s a gas which kills pretty quickly - N2s is generated when you pump water into the well so you would need to eliminate that or kill people
Burning gas straight out of the hole which is what is done in remote areas puts much worse stuff into teh atmosphere than coal ever could.
It si not as easy as people make out
That is why Browne with an E has the taxpayer underwriting it | | | |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 10:10 - Oct 12 with 2397 views | No9 |
| Fracking- relax rues on earthquakes, is this wise? on 09:17 - Oct 12 by brazil1982 |
You have studied all the evidence? Really?
I doubt that very much. |
To be candid you have not studied it either.
There are people in the UK with experience of fracking
Have you spoken to any of them to understand what and how? | | | |
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