| That Churchill statue.... 07:37 - Feb 3 with 1372 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
...how about we take it down and replace him with Captain Tom.  |  |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 07:42 - Feb 3 with 1355 views | bluelagos |
Did Maggie ever get her one? |  |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 07:47 - Feb 3 with 1339 views | Churchman |
| That Churchill statue.... on 07:42 - Feb 3 by bluelagos |
Did Maggie ever get her one? |
There is one in the HoC I believe. As for Churchill, there are plenty of statues I’d remove before his in Parliament Square and on Whitehall. |  | | |
| That Churchill statue.... on 08:10 - Feb 3 with 1272 views | solemio |
1. Churchill was the top anti-Nazi in the world.
2. Churchill left Attlee's welfare state reforms in place when he returned to power.
3. Churchill had the sense to give his Colonial Secretary freedom to negotiate independence for former members of the old British Empire.
In his younger days he was far less enlightened! |  | | |
| That Churchill statue.... on 08:24 - Feb 3 with 1241 views | Churchman |
| That Churchill statue.... on 08:10 - Feb 3 by solemio |
1. Churchill was the top anti-Nazi in the world.
2. Churchill left Attlee's welfare state reforms in place when he returned to power.
3. Churchill had the sense to give his Colonial Secretary freedom to negotiate independence for former members of the old British Empire.
In his younger days he was far less enlightened! |
Basically, he was an old Victorian.
He was a rubbish Chancellor, not in favour of votes for women, hated the Festival of Britain, useless at the Admiralty at the start of WW1 etc etc. But he was the right man in the right place at the right time in 1940.
He earned his place in history. | | | |
| That Churchill statue.... on 08:25 - Feb 3 with 1236 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That Churchill statue.... on 08:10 - Feb 3 by solemio |
1. Churchill was the top anti-Nazi in the world.
2. Churchill left Attlee's welfare state reforms in place when he returned to power.
3. Churchill had the sense to give his Colonial Secretary freedom to negotiate independence for former members of the old British Empire.
In his younger days he was far less enlightened! |
He was no Captain Tom! | |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 08:59 - Feb 3 with 1183 views | Guthrum |
| That Churchill statue.... on 08:24 - Feb 3 by Churchman |
Basically, he was an old Victorian.
He was a rubbish Chancellor, not in favour of votes for women, hated the Festival of Britain, useless at the Admiralty at the start of WW1 etc etc. But he was the right man in the right place at the right time in 1940.
He earned his place in history. |
I would say he was actually pretty effective at the Admiralty between 1911 and 1915, building up forces while trying to push disarmament, improving pay and conditions, being ready for action in 1914 and using the Naval Brigades to help in the defence of Antwerp (which disrupted German plans).
The Dardanelles campaign was actually a good idea and might well have taken the Turks out of the war, prevented the Bulgarians from joining the German side, opened supply lines to Russia and increased the threat to Austria-Hungary's southern flank. The initial naval assault came very close to success, being thwarted only by the actions of a single Turkish minelaying ship and a lack of determination on the part of a British admiral when the defences were virtually broken. The Gallipoli landings could also have been a success, were they better managed and controlled on the ground (e.g. reinforcing the unopposed beaches rather than the ones which faced fierce resistance) - but that, in itself, was not Churchill's fault. |  |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 09:04 - Feb 3 with 1176 views | factual_blue |
I genuinely expect the mail or the express to run with a headline in the next few days demanding a state funeral for Captain Tom. |  |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 09:14 - Feb 3 with 1150 views | TieDyedIn95 |
| That Churchill statue.... on 08:10 - Feb 3 by solemio |
1. Churchill was the top anti-Nazi in the world.
2. Churchill left Attlee's welfare state reforms in place when he returned to power.
3. Churchill had the sense to give his Colonial Secretary freedom to negotiate independence for former members of the old British Empire.
In his younger days he was far less enlightened! |
As a Liberal? |  |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 09:15 - Feb 3 with 1146 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:04 - Feb 3 by factual_blue |
I genuinely expect the mail or the express to run with a headline in the next few days demanding a state funeral for Captain Tom. |
Feel sorry for his family...becoming public property ain't all that! | |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 09:16 - Feb 3 with 1144 views | footers |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:14 - Feb 3 by TieDyedIn95 |
As a Liberal? |
British Liberal =/= American liberal |  |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 09:30 - Feb 3 with 1111 views | factual_blue |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:15 - Feb 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Feel sorry for his family...becoming public property ain't all that! |
I had the misfortune to see the One Show last night: a half hour blubfest consisting largely of people who'd tweeted the show in what was apparently a competition to show how much they cared.
I would imagine that's only the tip of the twitberg. | |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 09:33 - Feb 3 with 1085 views | Radlett_blue |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:15 - Feb 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Feel sorry for his family...becoming public property ain't all that! |
Well, they did get a free holiday in Barbados out of it. |  |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 09:35 - Feb 3 with 1075 views | Beckets |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:30 - Feb 3 by factual_blue |
I had the misfortune to see the One Show last night: a half hour blubfest consisting largely of people who'd tweeted the show in what was apparently a competition to show how much they cared.
I would imagine that's only the tip of the twitberg. |
For some it conveniently distracts from the real issues...pandemic deaths, Ireland, food poverty, homelessness etc |  | | |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:37 - Feb 3 with 1072 views | factual_blue |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:35 - Feb 3 by Beckets |
For some it conveniently distracts from the real issues...pandemic deaths, Ireland, food poverty, homelessness etc |
I'm all for a bit of distraction from the real issues, but I'd be happier with thirty minutes footage of the surfing duck every evening.. | |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 09:43 - Feb 3 with 1049 views | footers |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:30 - Feb 3 by factual_blue |
I had the misfortune to see the One Show last night: a half hour blubfest consisting largely of people who'd tweeted the show in what was apparently a competition to show how much they cared.
I would imagine that's only the tip of the twitberg. |
Was the lovely Alex Jones on? | |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 09:51 - Feb 3 with 1027 views | factual_blue |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:43 - Feb 3 by footers |
Was the lovely Alex Jones on? |
Oh yes.
The programme should be half an hour of her playing in the Australian surf with the surfing duck. | |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 09:57 - Feb 3 with 1001 views | Guthrum |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:16 - Feb 3 by footers |
British Liberal =/= American liberal |
c.f. Joseph Chamberlain and the Imperial Liberals. | |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 10:55 - Feb 3 with 944 views | Churchman |
| That Churchill statue.... on 08:59 - Feb 3 by Guthrum |
I would say he was actually pretty effective at the Admiralty between 1911 and 1915, building up forces while trying to push disarmament, improving pay and conditions, being ready for action in 1914 and using the Naval Brigades to help in the defence of Antwerp (which disrupted German plans).
The Dardanelles campaign was actually a good idea and might well have taken the Turks out of the war, prevented the Bulgarians from joining the German side, opened supply lines to Russia and increased the threat to Austria-Hungary's southern flank. The initial naval assault came very close to success, being thwarted only by the actions of a single Turkish minelaying ship and a lack of determination on the part of a British admiral when the defences were virtually broken. The Gallipoli landings could also have been a success, were they better managed and controlled on the ground (e.g. reinforcing the unopposed beaches rather than the ones which faced fierce resistance) - but that, in itself, was not Churchill's fault. |
I’ll grant you he worked well for a period with Jackie Fisher, who was the driving force and architect of Britain’s WW1 navy and a very difficult man.
I take your point re the naval brigade in 1914, but I’m not sure about the Dardanelles campaign. On the one hand, it was a good idea on the face of it. On the other, it vastly underestimated the resilience of Turkey and what was needed for an amphibious operation. On the flip side, there were no templates for an action like that with modern weapons so my view may be the gift of hindsight. How much was Churchill and how much was others? Your grasp of it is far better than mine and need to read up much more on this subject.
For sure, his policy making decision in the use of obsolescent ships led to the ‘Live Bait Squadron’ disaster in the Broad Fourteens and the dreadful defeat at Coronel. He had a habit of just counting guns on ships and forgetting the other bits. He did that in WW2 too and suggests to me his grasp of naval affairs was very limited.
In fact whilst personally a brave man, his interference in WW2 in military matters was sometimes inspired, but often difficult. I am aware that in particular he used to drive Alan Brooke nuts with his ideas and it should not be forgotten that the Battle of Britain was nearly lost before it began, due to Churchill’s continual promises to the French for more squadrons to be thrown into the French campaign. Thank goodness for Dowding.
An interesting figure and as I said in the original post, worthy of his place in history for all his faults. | | | |
| That Churchill statue.... on 11:16 - Feb 3 with 916 views | Guthrum |
| That Churchill statue.... on 10:55 - Feb 3 by Churchman |
I’ll grant you he worked well for a period with Jackie Fisher, who was the driving force and architect of Britain’s WW1 navy and a very difficult man.
I take your point re the naval brigade in 1914, but I’m not sure about the Dardanelles campaign. On the one hand, it was a good idea on the face of it. On the other, it vastly underestimated the resilience of Turkey and what was needed for an amphibious operation. On the flip side, there were no templates for an action like that with modern weapons so my view may be the gift of hindsight. How much was Churchill and how much was others? Your grasp of it is far better than mine and need to read up much more on this subject.
For sure, his policy making decision in the use of obsolescent ships led to the ‘Live Bait Squadron’ disaster in the Broad Fourteens and the dreadful defeat at Coronel. He had a habit of just counting guns on ships and forgetting the other bits. He did that in WW2 too and suggests to me his grasp of naval affairs was very limited.
In fact whilst personally a brave man, his interference in WW2 in military matters was sometimes inspired, but often difficult. I am aware that in particular he used to drive Alan Brooke nuts with his ideas and it should not be forgotten that the Battle of Britain was nearly lost before it began, due to Churchill’s continual promises to the French for more squadrons to be thrown into the French campaign. Thank goodness for Dowding.
An interesting figure and as I said in the original post, worthy of his place in history for all his faults. |
Indeed, he was nearly kicked out in 1942 due to mismanagement. Presume you've read Brooke's memoirs? Poor bloke was tearing his hair out a lot of the time.
Personally, tend to put the failure of the Dardanelles down to operational failings. The naval attack was virtually through and the Turks about to run out of ammunition when they turned back. Then de Robeck refused to have a second try. The landings were viable, but reinforced in the wrong place, leading to a massacre. | |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 11:29 - Feb 3 with 900 views | snudge27 |
| That Churchill statue.... on 09:15 - Feb 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Feel sorry for his family...becoming public property ain't all that! |
I never heard them complaining when he was getting knighthoods, England caps, free trips to Barbados, book deals and the like...
One would perhaps be forgiven for thinking that they actually courted the limelight. |  |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 11:34 - Feb 3 with 888 views | factual_blue |
| That Churchill statue.... on 11:29 - Feb 3 by snudge27 |
I never heard them complaining when he was getting knighthoods, England caps, free trips to Barbados, book deals and the like...
One would perhaps be forgiven for thinking that they actually courted the limelight. |
When's the film coming out? | |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 13:06 - Feb 3 with 800 views | Radlett_blue |
| That Churchill statue.... on 11:16 - Feb 3 by Guthrum |
Indeed, he was nearly kicked out in 1942 due to mismanagement. Presume you've read Brooke's memoirs? Poor bloke was tearing his hair out a lot of the time.
Personally, tend to put the failure of the Dardanelles down to operational failings. The naval attack was virtually through and the Turks about to run out of ammunition when they turned back. Then de Robeck refused to have a second try. The landings were viable, but reinforced in the wrong place, leading to a massacre. |
Failure of large scale military operations are rarely down to one man.
Churchill's statue was down to his deserved status as a war hero, nothing more, nothing less. | |
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| That Churchill statue.... on 13:07 - Feb 3 with 792 views | ElderGrizzly |
Maybe they put one up in BA’s Concorde Lounge at Heathrow... |  | | |
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