| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it 12:48 - Nov 27 with 1175 views | unstableblue |
Very simple formula:
- get a group of quality players who are very good on the ball and can pass (including turning strikers into defenders)
- create a real team spirit and a motivated group through amazing man management
- give each player very very simple instructions of how they will support the whole system
Sound familiar
Interesting on the radio that some pundits saying it’s only the speed, fitness and nutrition that has changed… I don’t agree, on the third point above, the likes of Klopp and mourinho are creating passages and phases of play that would crucify older teams
Just my view |  |
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| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 12:57 - Nov 27 with 1128 views | BlueBadger |
It's almost as if that guff you talk about 'technical' football is a load of management speak for football hipsters. |  |
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| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 14:05 - Nov 27 with 1010 views | Keaneish |
I don’t agree with that either. The game is far more technical these days and systems far more fluid. It’s been 40 years since Clough won the European Cup and technology has made football far more accessible to learn - data science being an intrinsic part of decision making too. Football has become so accessible, it promotes a rich culture of sharing and learning, resulting in evolution. |  |
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| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 14:18 - Nov 27 with 982 views | Chrisd |
Clough always believed in the importance of rest and he never over trained players. It was incredible what he did at Forest and Derby too. You've got to admit, the way the modern game has changed so dramatically with all the money, no side is going to come up from the Championship and then the next season win the EPL title. Him and Peter Taylor were a brilliant combination - mavericks, but geniuses too. Their achievements shouldn't be underestimated even though it was achieved in a completely different footballing era. [Post edited 27 Nov 2021 15:36]
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| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 16:08 - Nov 27 with 829 views | billlm |
Obviously doesn't always work, |  | | |
| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 11:44 - Nov 28 with 634 views | unstableblue |
| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 14:05 - Nov 27 by Keaneish |
I don’t agree with that either. The game is far more technical these days and systems far more fluid. It’s been 40 years since Clough won the European Cup and technology has made football far more accessible to learn - data science being an intrinsic part of decision making too. Football has become so accessible, it promotes a rich culture of sharing and learning, resulting in evolution. |
Completely agree Keanish.
The game as you rightly say is far far more advanced, technical, more scientific, more analytical.
And that is not just fitness and nutrition. It’s how the game is played; how the opposition is analysed.
As I’ve been saying good players and motivation are a given now, the margins are made up in technical analysis and application.
Klopp Liverpool would destroy that Forest side.
Klopp’s opposition analysis is well known for being forensic.
It’s interesting listening to Gerard yesterday in that the distances between their players in defence, transition and attack has been their focus, and garnered results.
Cook is failing to get his technical drills and instructions into the players effectively, and results are hitting the players confidence, so their pedigree is not the deciding factor.
Cooks failings are technical and man management at present. The likes of Morsy are stating they have now understood and settled into the system. And that Rotherham was a blip. But we’ve left it very late to go on a run. | |
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| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 11:49 - Nov 28 with 618 views | unstableblue |
| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 14:18 - Nov 27 by Chrisd |
Clough always believed in the importance of rest and he never over trained players. It was incredible what he did at Forest and Derby too. You've got to admit, the way the modern game has changed so dramatically with all the money, no side is going to come up from the Championship and then the next season win the EPL title. Him and Peter Taylor were a brilliant combination - mavericks, but geniuses too. Their achievements shouldn't be underestimated even though it was achieved in a completely different footballing era. [Post edited 27 Nov 2021 15:36]
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I think it’s a more remarkable story than Ipswich in the UEFA cup years. Albeit is does seem that Forest had funds.
The pair are an argument as to whether Cooks set up was correct. Clough the motivator and man manager, Clough the tactician and player recruiter.
I don’t think it would happen again, clubs like Liverpool and Chelsea have gone onto another plane. Klopp is a motivator and man manager first and foremost, but behind that is a very well funded modern technical football set up. So the margins are going to be in their favour.
But as always it starts with the players turning up and wanting it more than the opposition. You lose to a palace or a Burnley even if you are an elite club. | |
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| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 13:10 - Nov 28 with 560 views | fabian_illness |
Watched it yesterday.
Great viewing.
One point I’d like to add, for all today’s analysis, fitness, scientific input etc,
I think the pitches play a big part.
Klopps Liverpool against Cloughs Forrest on a modern pitch, no contest.
Klopps Liverpool against Cloughs Forrest on a freezing cold February night on a cut up 70’s/80’s pitch with a ref from the era, my money would be on Forrest. |  | | |
| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 13:32 - Nov 28 with 525 views | Churchman |
| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 11:44 - Nov 28 by unstableblue |
Completely agree Keanish.
The game as you rightly say is far far more advanced, technical, more scientific, more analytical.
And that is not just fitness and nutrition. It’s how the game is played; how the opposition is analysed.
As I’ve been saying good players and motivation are a given now, the margins are made up in technical analysis and application.
Klopp Liverpool would destroy that Forest side.
Klopp’s opposition analysis is well known for being forensic.
It’s interesting listening to Gerard yesterday in that the distances between their players in defence, transition and attack has been their focus, and garnered results.
Cook is failing to get his technical drills and instructions into the players effectively, and results are hitting the players confidence, so their pedigree is not the deciding factor.
Cooks failings are technical and man management at present. The likes of Morsy are stating they have now understood and settled into the system. And that Rotherham was a blip. But we’ve left it very late to go on a run. |
I think it’s hard to compare eras given the difference in kit, rules, pitches and everything else.
Yes sports science plays it’s part, but no amount of science can put desire, heart and courage into a player. The game for me is still a very simple one. A good team always had a strong spine to it. Look at Clough’s teams and you will see that - Shilton in goal for starters.
It makes me laugh to think of what Kenny Burns would have made of today’s lightweights. Breakfast, dinner and tea I should think. I suspect if Suarez had tried those biting antics he’d have been looking for a new set of teeth while his broken leg healed.
I actually think that the great Liverpool teams, Man Utd side with Best, Law and Charlton, Clough’s Forest and Robson’s 81 Ipswich side would do rather well in modern day football. |  | | |
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| Anyone watched the Clough doc on Netflix, well worth it on 14:32 - Nov 28 with 474 views | Juggsy |
Add another ingredient - a competent Assistant Manager. Who is Paul Cooks Peter Taylor? |  | | |
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