| EU change and Ukraine 08:17 - Jul 3 with 953 views | Churchman |
There is an interesting article in the Telegraph on Ukraine possibly joining the EU.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-germany-secretly-fears-losing-144737147.html
The key points are:
Scholz wants the voting system to be reconfigured to ensure power blocs of EU nations cannot be formed in order to secure extra funding from their rich Western allies. Emmanuel Macron has spoken about a need to change the voting system in order to stop his country’s ambitions from being thwarted by smaller EU members.
It won’t happen because I doubt Ukraine will ever join the EU and this is just a Telegraph view. Two things strike me though. If France and Germany do change the rules to keep more control, how much tension will that create within the EU? Smaller countries by definition will have even less say.
Secondly, if there is any truth in this, had the U.K. stayed in the EU, it’s natural allies, the northern countries, along with the eastern states I think could have leveraged real change within the EU. An opportunity lost? |  | | |  |
| EU change and Ukraine on 10:24 - Jul 3 with 846 views | meekreech |
Even more proof that the eurozone was always designed for the Germans and the French to control Europe.
Napoleon and Hitler have finally got the empire they fought wars for but have done it in a peaceful way.
We, as a nation, did the right thing in leaving. If they continue with this path of increasing French and German control it will ultimately lead to more leavers or violent reaction by the poorer nations.
It has already been demonstrated that countries cannot rely on fair treatment when they threaten the economical stability of the leading nations.
Greece and Italy were made to suffer financially and also by having euro technocrats foisted on them as leaders displacing democratic leaders.
Democracy is no longer available in the eurozone countries other than when the results of the elections are what Germany and france require. |  |
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| EU change and Ukraine on 12:31 - Jul 3 with 799 views | BlueBadger |
| EU change and Ukraine on 10:24 - Jul 3 by meekreech |
Even more proof that the eurozone was always designed for the Germans and the French to control Europe.
Napoleon and Hitler have finally got the empire they fought wars for but have done it in a peaceful way.
We, as a nation, did the right thing in leaving. If they continue with this path of increasing French and German control it will ultimately lead to more leavers or violent reaction by the poorer nations.
It has already been demonstrated that countries cannot rely on fair treatment when they threaten the economical stability of the leading nations.
Greece and Italy were made to suffer financially and also by having euro technocrats foisted on them as leaders displacing democratic leaders.
Democracy is no longer available in the eurozone countries other than when the results of the elections are what Germany and france require. |
What is about economic stagnation, open xenophobia, making life needlessly difficult for business and outright lies that like best about Brexit? [Post edited 3 Jul 2022 12:32]
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| EU change and Ukraine on 12:45 - Jul 3 with 754 views | WeWereZombies |
| EU change and Ukraine on 10:24 - Jul 3 by meekreech |
Even more proof that the eurozone was always designed for the Germans and the French to control Europe.
Napoleon and Hitler have finally got the empire they fought wars for but have done it in a peaceful way.
We, as a nation, did the right thing in leaving. If they continue with this path of increasing French and German control it will ultimately lead to more leavers or violent reaction by the poorer nations.
It has already been demonstrated that countries cannot rely on fair treatment when they threaten the economical stability of the leading nations.
Greece and Italy were made to suffer financially and also by having euro technocrats foisted on them as leaders displacing democratic leaders.
Democracy is no longer available in the eurozone countries other than when the results of the elections are what Germany and france require. |
If we extend your argument to say that the United Kingdom could not exercise democracy within the European Union because Germany and France were too powerful then how, exactly, do we improve our democratic ambit by going it alone against Russia, China and the United States? |  |
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| EU change and Ukraine on 12:46 - Jul 3 with 754 views | MattinLondon |
| EU change and Ukraine on 10:24 - Jul 3 by meekreech |
Even more proof that the eurozone was always designed for the Germans and the French to control Europe.
Napoleon and Hitler have finally got the empire they fought wars for but have done it in a peaceful way.
We, as a nation, did the right thing in leaving. If they continue with this path of increasing French and German control it will ultimately lead to more leavers or violent reaction by the poorer nations.
It has already been demonstrated that countries cannot rely on fair treatment when they threaten the economical stability of the leading nations.
Greece and Italy were made to suffer financially and also by having euro technocrats foisted on them as leaders displacing democratic leaders.
Democracy is no longer available in the eurozone countries other than when the results of the elections are what Germany and france require. |
I don’t think Britain can criticise other countries for empire building.
Your post is just an extension of the argument that the EU will fail soon - it’s not. There are many aspects of the EU that are open to criticism but it is a strong democratic organisation built on the consent of independent sovereign nations. Obviously big nations will try and dominate but that is nothing new - the UK, when in, was perfectly capable of trying to get its own way on a few occasions. |  | | |
| EU change and Ukraine on 06:36 - Jul 4 with 579 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Depends what, if anything is left of Ukraine - but I’d be surprised if it doesn’t get in pretty quickly IF there is anything left.
Lots of restructuring to do and money-making opportunities
It’s nothing new - there was a lot of angst about Spain and Ireland benefitting hugely at France and Germany’s expense 40 years ago. Expanding a trading bloc by 20 countries to be 4x the size might warrant a bit of tweaking from a vision rooted in 1945 | |
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| EU change and Ukraine on 06:57 - Jul 4 with 553 views | Freddies_Ears |
Massive opportunity lost. A decade ago, UK had a real opening to be the lead of the non-Euro EU countries, many of which were utterly friendly towards us and worked with us to achieve mutual benefits. We ignored that opportunity and shot ourselves in both feet instead. | | | |
| EU change and Ukraine on 08:11 - Jul 4 with 491 views | Churchman |
| EU change and Ukraine on 12:46 - Jul 3 by MattinLondon |
I don’t think Britain can criticise other countries for empire building.
Your post is just an extension of the argument that the EU will fail soon - it’s not. There are many aspects of the EU that are open to criticism but it is a strong democratic organisation built on the consent of independent sovereign nations. Obviously big nations will try and dominate but that is nothing new - the UK, when in, was perfectly capable of trying to get its own way on a few occasions. |
I think we are entitled to a view, just as China is entitled to a view on Johnson’s limitless ineptitude.
One of the points of the OP was that if France and Germany change the voting rules to protect their interests, does that not undermine the very democracy you mention and remove elements of consent? How would this work in practice, if there is truly a desire for power to be concentrated in the hands of the most economically and politically powerful?
In terms of consent, surely that becomes irrelevant if the major decisions are in the hands of France and Germany?
I ask speculative questions because it’s inevitable that as the EU expands, tensions between different countries wants are bound to emerge and I don’t see the superstate, as envisaged by some, as the answer. | | | |
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