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Authoritarian Labour Party 13:49 - Nov 14 with 2700 viewsDJR

The following is just one example of the increasing authoritarianism and illiberalism in the Labour Party, with, for example, short-lists being fixed to exclude anyone remotely left wing.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/14/jeremy-corbyn-will-never-stand-

The Party used to be a broad church, but these days Clement Atlee wouldn't stand a chance of being selected.

I have been a member since 1987 but in the last three years have cut down my subscription to the bare minimum. And every time something authoritarian like this happens, I do wonder whether I should just end my membership because they are not the Party I first joined.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 13:49]
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Authoritarian Labour Party on 13:55 - Nov 14 with 2001 viewsGlasgowBlue

It's Attlee. And surely pro Monarchy Attlee who was one of the founding fathers of NATO and the man who established the UK's nuclear deterrent (which he secretly developed and kept away from the cabinet via Gen 75) committee, would be very much at home n the Labour party of 2022.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 13:58]

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 13:58 - Nov 14 with 2000 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

GB says he might vote for them if that helps.

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 13:59 - Nov 14 with 1998 viewsKeno

Authoritarian Labour Party on 13:55 - Nov 14 by GlasgowBlue

It's Attlee. And surely pro Monarchy Attlee who was one of the founding fathers of NATO and the man who established the UK's nuclear deterrent (which he secretly developed and kept away from the cabinet via Gen 75) committee, would be very much at home n the Labour party of 2022.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 13:58]


I know very little of Clement Attlee other than he seemed to a very hard working politician devoted to his principles (oh for some like that nowadays!!)

there is also Winston Churchill's quote - "An empty car arrived at the Palace and Mr Attlee got out"

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:00 - Nov 14 with 1994 viewsDarth_Koont

Just add it to the list.

Is anyone else concerned by this? by Darth_Koont 26 Jul 2022 15:31
We’ve just had the Forde Report corroborating one of the worst political scandals in modern times, certainly the most detailed and widespread. And yet our media couldn’t be less interested – bar the fact that many of them immediately copied the Labour spokesman who spun it as a problem with Corbynism that is now over.

But the key findings of the report remain:

– An unelected bureaucracy in one of the two parties that can effectively form a national government worked against their elected leader and the democratic mandate from members of the party.

– These senior staff, whose job and purpose is to support the leader and members the party represents, secretly and as Forde points out wrongfully diverted over 100K of electoral funds to the seats of anti-Corbyn MPs. It wasn’t their money nor had they the election nor democratic brief to do so. They allege it was to protect seats but these weren’t the seats at most risk. This is also in the 2017 election where a hung parliament was on a knife edge and May barely squeaked in with the support of the DUP. So beyond the utter moral failure and democratic abuse here, these efforts may have had repercussions for the whole country and its future. I’m not saying it definitely did or would have but this is why democratic abuse like this can’t be ignored.

– Antisemitism was being weaponised by the Labour right. And, as Forde also points out, the premise for the big debate in the media and beyond (including the Panorama hatchet job) was wrong and “evidence” that Corbyn had got involved a) unbidden by the HQ staff themselves and b) to block investigations and expulsions was entirely misleading. Forde didn’t use the words “attempts to frame Corbyn that overall succeeded” but he’s a lawyer and much more careful. But I’ll certainly put that out there as a question that those involved need to answer.

– The Labour HQ staff were leaking information and briefing “friendly” journalists at every step. So, in the fight against Corbynism (a fight against social democracy and change if we’re being honest), the unelected staff decided early on to take sides against the leader and the wishes of the members. In this way, they mirrored the PLP and prominently vocal MPs who also decided to act against the party’s own internal democracy.

– The culture within the Labour Party is toxic, not just with the unprofessional and undemocratic behaviour of far too many senior staff but also with sexism and racism. Forde received many, many complaints during the evidence gathering and submission phase (plus a few legal warnings from those who knew that the Labour leaks document was true and damning). Forde, coming through loud and clear despite his lawyerly and careful language, is evidently disgusted by a lot of these internal messages and communications. And he points to an organisation that is deeply flawed and toxic.

As I say, most of these issues have been relatively common knowledge and certainly discussed but were dismissed by factional MPs and their media lackeys as allegations. Yet the Forde report absolutely corroborates them and shows that the accepted narrative of the Corbyn years was just that – a narrative people accepted.

Now, that it’s out and independently corroborated where is the media response? How can we trust a media that painted a picture that it either knew was false or that it didn’t bother to investigate?

That’s serious and worrying enough. But what do we also say about a democratic party (the opposition and only alternative, as people are always keen to remind me) that’s been hijacked by genuine rightwingers who will monster and sabotage anyone elected by members to push the case for more equality, justice and a better life for the most vulnerable and ignored in society. What gives these people the right but also the conviction that they’re there to serve other unelected interests??!

For anyone who says this is over now so no use lamenting the past, think again. The Labour Right has total control of the party now – the internal and the political organisation. It’s amended the rules and taken power from the membership to avoid a repeat of someone from the left getting elected. It’s carried on the same purge that Forde describes when staff went around “trot hunting” (instead of dealing with antisemitism cases by the way) and where a “trot” was described as “anyone left of Gordon Brown”. It’s stood by and clapped along to the most dishonest leadership campaign in UK history where Starmer has misrepresented his values and views (as pledges FFS) to then backtrack on the whole programme and the social democratic platform he himself was committed to before and after the 2019 election if you believe his frequent speeches and statements.

If Boris and his government was a democratic scandal and a sign of dysfunctional party politics (it certainly was) then this saga is the same.

So why can I only see a lack of concern in the limited coverage and almost non-existent responses? Do people really think this doesn’t matter?








And for the hard of thinking this is not an endorsement of the Tories. They’re definitely worse. But it’s a sign of our our whole democracy going down the pan due to the unseriousness and inadequacy of the current major parties and the political pundits who support the charade. About the only thing any of these people are serious about is getting or staying close to power, influence and money.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 14:01]

Pronouns: He/Him

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:03 - Nov 14 with 1947 viewsGlasgowBlue

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:00 - Nov 14 by Darth_Koont

Just add it to the list.

Is anyone else concerned by this? by Darth_Koont 26 Jul 2022 15:31
We’ve just had the Forde Report corroborating one of the worst political scandals in modern times, certainly the most detailed and widespread. And yet our media couldn’t be less interested – bar the fact that many of them immediately copied the Labour spokesman who spun it as a problem with Corbynism that is now over.

But the key findings of the report remain:

– An unelected bureaucracy in one of the two parties that can effectively form a national government worked against their elected leader and the democratic mandate from members of the party.

– These senior staff, whose job and purpose is to support the leader and members the party represents, secretly and as Forde points out wrongfully diverted over 100K of electoral funds to the seats of anti-Corbyn MPs. It wasn’t their money nor had they the election nor democratic brief to do so. They allege it was to protect seats but these weren’t the seats at most risk. This is also in the 2017 election where a hung parliament was on a knife edge and May barely squeaked in with the support of the DUP. So beyond the utter moral failure and democratic abuse here, these efforts may have had repercussions for the whole country and its future. I’m not saying it definitely did or would have but this is why democratic abuse like this can’t be ignored.

– Antisemitism was being weaponised by the Labour right. And, as Forde also points out, the premise for the big debate in the media and beyond (including the Panorama hatchet job) was wrong and “evidence” that Corbyn had got involved a) unbidden by the HQ staff themselves and b) to block investigations and expulsions was entirely misleading. Forde didn’t use the words “attempts to frame Corbyn that overall succeeded” but he’s a lawyer and much more careful. But I’ll certainly put that out there as a question that those involved need to answer.

– The Labour HQ staff were leaking information and briefing “friendly” journalists at every step. So, in the fight against Corbynism (a fight against social democracy and change if we’re being honest), the unelected staff decided early on to take sides against the leader and the wishes of the members. In this way, they mirrored the PLP and prominently vocal MPs who also decided to act against the party’s own internal democracy.

– The culture within the Labour Party is toxic, not just with the unprofessional and undemocratic behaviour of far too many senior staff but also with sexism and racism. Forde received many, many complaints during the evidence gathering and submission phase (plus a few legal warnings from those who knew that the Labour leaks document was true and damning). Forde, coming through loud and clear despite his lawyerly and careful language, is evidently disgusted by a lot of these internal messages and communications. And he points to an organisation that is deeply flawed and toxic.

As I say, most of these issues have been relatively common knowledge and certainly discussed but were dismissed by factional MPs and their media lackeys as allegations. Yet the Forde report absolutely corroborates them and shows that the accepted narrative of the Corbyn years was just that – a narrative people accepted.

Now, that it’s out and independently corroborated where is the media response? How can we trust a media that painted a picture that it either knew was false or that it didn’t bother to investigate?

That’s serious and worrying enough. But what do we also say about a democratic party (the opposition and only alternative, as people are always keen to remind me) that’s been hijacked by genuine rightwingers who will monster and sabotage anyone elected by members to push the case for more equality, justice and a better life for the most vulnerable and ignored in society. What gives these people the right but also the conviction that they’re there to serve other unelected interests??!

For anyone who says this is over now so no use lamenting the past, think again. The Labour Right has total control of the party now – the internal and the political organisation. It’s amended the rules and taken power from the membership to avoid a repeat of someone from the left getting elected. It’s carried on the same purge that Forde describes when staff went around “trot hunting” (instead of dealing with antisemitism cases by the way) and where a “trot” was described as “anyone left of Gordon Brown”. It’s stood by and clapped along to the most dishonest leadership campaign in UK history where Starmer has misrepresented his values and views (as pledges FFS) to then backtrack on the whole programme and the social democratic platform he himself was committed to before and after the 2019 election if you believe his frequent speeches and statements.

If Boris and his government was a democratic scandal and a sign of dysfunctional party politics (it certainly was) then this saga is the same.

So why can I only see a lack of concern in the limited coverage and almost non-existent responses? Do people really think this doesn’t matter?








And for the hard of thinking this is not an endorsement of the Tories. They’re definitely worse. But it’s a sign of our our whole democracy going down the pan due to the unseriousness and inadequacy of the current major parties and the political pundits who support the charade. About the only thing any of these people are serious about is getting or staying close to power, influence and money.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 14:01]


THE FORDE REPORT
THE FORDE REPORT
THE FORDE REPORT
THE FORDE REPORT

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They are everything.... on 14:09 - Nov 14 with 1922 viewsBloots

....the Conservative party should be.

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:09 - Nov 14 with 1936 viewsDJR

Authoritarian Labour Party on 13:55 - Nov 14 by GlasgowBlue

It's Attlee. And surely pro Monarchy Attlee who was one of the founding fathers of NATO and the man who established the UK's nuclear deterrent (which he secretly developed and kept away from the cabinet via Gen 75) committee, would be very much at home n the Labour party of 2022.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 13:58]


It doesn't matter how pro-monarchy or pro-NATO he was, if he still had any of the left-wing views he had then, he would be weeded-out and not get anywhere the short list.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 14:14]
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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:14 - Nov 14 with 1907 viewsGuthrum

Authoritarian Labour Party on 13:59 - Nov 14 by Keno

I know very little of Clement Attlee other than he seemed to a very hard working politician devoted to his principles (oh for some like that nowadays!!)

there is also Winston Churchill's quote - "An empty car arrived at the Palace and Mr Attlee got out"


My mother remembers seeing Attlee on Felixstowe seafront in his old age.

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:15 - Nov 14 with 1904 viewsDJR

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:14 - Nov 14 by Guthrum

My mother remembers seeing Attlee on Felixstowe seafront in his old age.


Do you know if he lived in the area?
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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:15 - Nov 14 with 1909 viewsGuthrum

Much like the Conservatives, they are an assembly of factions fighting over possession of a party name.

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:16 - Nov 14 with 1902 viewsDarth_Koont

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:03 - Nov 14 by GlasgowBlue

THE FORDE REPORT
THE FORDE REPORT
THE FORDE REPORT
THE FORDE REPORT


Yes, among other things.

But it amuses me just how much you can’t handle the truth now it’s had a chance to catch up with your smeary lies and misrepresentations.

It’s made a fool of you. And you’re somehow still supporting the people who put actual antisemitism complaints to the side while they “hunted trots”. You’re not even remotely concerned about it which speaks volumes about your real priorities.

Pronouns: He/Him

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:16 - Nov 14 with 1899 viewsGuthrum

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:15 - Nov 14 by DJR

Do you know if he lived in the area?


I don't, but had the impression that he might have done, or at least stayed there frequently.

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:18 - Nov 14 with 1886 viewsjeera

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:16 - Nov 14 by Guthrum

I don't, but had the impression that he might have done, or at least stayed there frequently.


Like some sort of metaphorical self-flagellation?

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:19 - Nov 14 with 1880 viewsGeoffSentence

I was going to suggest maybe The Respect Party as an alternative, but I see they no longer exist following an internal rift.

This is why we are not a socialist or social democratic country these days and remain at the mercy of the loony right, because the left can't get their sht together and rally round something good enough, just to get a foot in the door. Or in the 80's a Foot in the door.

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:22 - Nov 14 with 1857 viewsGlasgowBlue

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:09 - Nov 14 by DJR

It doesn't matter how pro-monarchy or pro-NATO he was, if he still had any of the left-wing views he had then, he would be weeded-out and not get anywhere the short list.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 14:14]


Left wing?

Pro monarchy, pro NATO, pro nuclear, opposed strikes, introduced austerity and wage freezes, imprisoned Ghandi, went into coalition with the Tories, baked Greece’s royalist government against Communist-led resistance, etc etc.

Attlee has more in common with Starmer that he does Corbyn.

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:30 - Nov 14 with 1853 viewsjeera

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:19 - Nov 14 by GeoffSentence

I was going to suggest maybe The Respect Party as an alternative, but I see they no longer exist following an internal rift.

This is why we are not a socialist or social democratic country these days and remain at the mercy of the loony right, because the left can't get their sht together and rally round something good enough, just to get a foot in the door. Or in the 80's a Foot in the door.


Socialist has become a dirty word anyway. Mostly by people who don't know what it means.

I had a brief encounter with someone a few days ago who was on one about workers being expected to do extra work for no extra pay, (he's a postman), and how the services should be nationalised and the like.

I said he's a bit of a socialist and he looked angry. "I'm not a socialist!

Yes, I believe in those things but I'm not a bloody socialist."
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 14:33]

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:32 - Nov 14 with 1836 viewsGeoffSentence

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:30 - Nov 14 by jeera

Socialist has become a dirty word anyway. Mostly by people who don't know what it means.

I had a brief encounter with someone a few days ago who was on one about workers being expected to do extra work for no extra pay, (he's a postman), and how the services should be nationalised and the like.

I said he's a bit of a socialist and he looked angry. "I'm not a socialist!

Yes, I believe in those things but I'm not a bloody socialist."
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 14:33]


I wonder where that repulsion comes from. My best guess would be, our print media indoctrinating people in that manner.

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:39 - Nov 14 with 1795 viewsDJR

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:22 - Nov 14 by GlasgowBlue

Left wing?

Pro monarchy, pro NATO, pro nuclear, opposed strikes, introduced austerity and wage freezes, imprisoned Ghandi, went into coalition with the Tories, baked Greece’s royalist government against Communist-led resistance, etc etc.

Attlee has more in common with Starmer that he does Corbyn.


Are you living in a dream world? Large-scale nationalisation (coal, electricity, steel, transport, gas), for example, just wouldn't be tolerated in the Party today.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 14:42]
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Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:45 - Nov 14 with 1759 viewsGlasgowBlue

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:39 - Nov 14 by DJR

Are you living in a dream world? Large-scale nationalisation (coal, electricity, steel, transport, gas), for example, just wouldn't be tolerated in the Party today.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 14:42]


He was centre left. he'd fit in with today's Labour party in the same way that Ed Miliband does. Big difference between the centre left and the hard left.

The hard left aren't fans of Clem.

https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/was-patriotic-reformer-clement-attlee-on-the-
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 14:48]

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 15:01 - Nov 14 with 1718 viewsDJR

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:45 - Nov 14 by GlasgowBlue

He was centre left. he'd fit in with today's Labour party in the same way that Ed Miliband does. Big difference between the centre left and the hard left.

The hard left aren't fans of Clem.

https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/was-patriotic-reformer-clement-attlee-on-the-
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 14:48]


The term hard left didn't come into use until the 1980s, so trying to attach labels to him from a different era, or attaching a link to the socialist worker websites, is not particularly helpful. He led a socialist government with socialist policies, and many of those socialist policies these days wouldn't get you anywhere near a short list. The thing is these days the centre ground has moved so far to the right that the term "hard left" probably now includes anyone who like me would prefer a bit more European social democracy.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 15:04]
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Authoritarian Labour Party on 15:08 - Nov 14 with 1693 viewsWeWereZombies

Authoritarian Labour Party on 15:01 - Nov 14 by DJR

The term hard left didn't come into use until the 1980s, so trying to attach labels to him from a different era, or attaching a link to the socialist worker websites, is not particularly helpful. He led a socialist government with socialist policies, and many of those socialist policies these days wouldn't get you anywhere near a short list. The thing is these days the centre ground has moved so far to the right that the term "hard left" probably now includes anyone who like me would prefer a bit more European social democracy.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 15:04]


Although back in 1917 the terms Menshevik and Bolshevik were bandied around a fair bit...

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 15:33 - Nov 14 with 1656 viewsBlueBadger

Authoritarian Labour Party on 14:19 - Nov 14 by GeoffSentence

I was going to suggest maybe The Respect Party as an alternative, but I see they no longer exist following an internal rift.

This is why we are not a socialist or social democratic country these days and remain at the mercy of the loony right, because the left can't get their sht together and rally round something good enough, just to get a foot in the door. Or in the 80's a Foot in the door.


George Galloway's Respect?

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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Authoritarian Labour Party on 15:35 - Nov 14 with 1651 viewsBlueBadger

This is the Labour equivalent of being upset because Boris isn't in charge.

Or the politics equivalent of wanting Lambert back on the coaching staff.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 15:44]

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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Authoritarian Labour Party on 15:42 - Nov 14 with 1621 viewsGeoffSentence

Authoritarian Labour Party on 15:33 - Nov 14 by BlueBadger

George Galloway's Respect?


That's the one. Though I was surprised that it was actually set up by George Monbiot.

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Authoritarian Labour Party on 15:43 - Nov 14 with 1618 viewsjeera

Authoritarian Labour Party on 15:35 - Nov 14 by BlueBadger

This is the Labour equivalent of being upset because Boris isn't in charge.

Or the politics equivalent of wanting Lambert back on the coaching staff.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2022 15:44]


Selected, not elected for PM!

I should think he's probably a decent local MP regardless of any other perceived misgivings.

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