| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops 08:17 - Feb 5 with 1510 views | Swansea_Blue |
This is a case very well made, and I hope she succeeds in her quest to remove the automatic right of the CoE to send bishops to the Lords.
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 14:22 - Feb 5 with 1380 views | DJR |
It's difficult to see anything ever happening, given talk of reform of the House of Lords has been going on for more than a century.
The Bishops in the Lords are a link with the monarch's role as Defender of the Faith.
Start to tinker with that, and it calls into question the Church of England's establishment, and maybe even the role of the monarchy itself.
Given this, I think those in the Establishment will fight all they can to preserve the status quo, and even if Labour go down the route of reform, I wouldn't be surprised if they retain some role for the Bishops. |  | | |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 16:33 - Feb 5 with 1302 views | factual_blue |
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: we should just hand the UK over to Denmark and have Sandi as our provincial governor. |  |
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 17:25 - Feb 5 with 1264 views | HARRY10 |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 14:22 - Feb 5 by DJR |
It's difficult to see anything ever happening, given talk of reform of the House of Lords has been going on for more than a century.
The Bishops in the Lords are a link with the monarch's role as Defender of the Faith.
Start to tinker with that, and it calls into question the Church of England's establishment, and maybe even the role of the monarchy itself.
Given this, I think those in the Establishment will fight all they can to preserve the status quo, and even if Labour go down the route of reform, I wouldn't be surprised if they retain some role for the Bishops. |
Labour got rid of most of the hereditary peers last time, and there have been various bills and proposals since to continue that reform, which have been blocked by Tories.
The guff about this so called 'establishment' is that, guff. As it is never defined, merely held up as something oppressive and controlling, as with Eastasia, the jews or wokism.
Torsvig us rather disengenuous when she talks of 'them being in Parliament, as they are not in the deciding part, only the advisory part. And there are other countries, allbeit the Vatican City and the Isle of Man.
But tinkering at the edges is as much a danger as is doing othing Much as with PR where the idea is to remove whole layers of democract to make things 'fair'
Removing Bishops and hereditary peers should be part of a longer term reform, not a solution in itsekf. |  | | |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 17:33 - Feb 5 with 1252 views | Mullet |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 16:33 - Feb 5 by factual_blue |
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: we should just hand the UK over to Denmark and have Sandi as our provincial governor. |
Longing for your youth under Danelaw again eh? |  |
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 17:49 - Feb 5 with 1206 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 16:33 - Feb 5 by factual_blue |
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: we should just hand the UK over to Denmark and have Sandi as our provincial governor. |
Ha! She talks a lot more sense than most. We’d presumably get cheaper deals on bacon too.
I wonder how far Labour would be able to go: contrasting views on that in the thread so far. Their proposals so far (albeit not fully fleshed out) seem pretty radical. Got to win an election first though of course! | |
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 17:54 - Feb 5 with 1188 views | chicoazul |
Having a state religion is a good thing and all our laws and culture are based on Christianity. I have no doubt this campaign will eventually succeed and our country will be irrevocably changed once again. It won’t be long before we are officially secular and probably atheist. Hilarious to conflate is wirhIran of course but there you go, many people will lap that up. |  |
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:06 - Feb 5 with 1162 views | Mullet |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 17:54 - Feb 5 by chicoazul |
Having a state religion is a good thing and all our laws and culture are based on Christianity. I have no doubt this campaign will eventually succeed and our country will be irrevocably changed once again. It won’t be long before we are officially secular and probably atheist. Hilarious to conflate is wirhIran of course but there you go, many people will lap that up. |
That's the same mistake Rory Stewart was making. Conflating it with Iran or just pointing out it's a fact?
A bit like the capital punishment arguments when people list the USA alongside China, Uganda etc.
We should be secular, multicultural and democratic. Too many things which have held this country back post-empire have been cloaked under jingoism and nostalgia. Removing the mechanisms which allow that and making society more equitable should always be the aim over fear of change. Because, too many hide behind it and don't recognise the changes taking place when they're actually negative, not theoretically so. | |
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:06 - Feb 5 with 1158 views | HARRY10 |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 17:49 - Feb 5 by Swansea_Blue |
Ha! She talks a lot more sense than most. We’d presumably get cheaper deals on bacon too.
I wonder how far Labour would be able to go: contrasting views on that in the thread so far. Their proposals so far (albeit not fully fleshed out) seem pretty radical. Got to win an election first though of course! |
What proposals are those ?
My thought would be to start by removng te Bishops and hereditary peers. Change the allowance system, remove the ability to simple turn up at 9am, sign in and then fck off having trousered £300. And no other perks, ie using it as a club to entertain guests at subsidised cost.
While removing the two groups (above) would be more symbolic than anything, there still needs to be some form of explaing to the great unwashed what the Lords do. As most seem to regard a second chamber as unnecessary and filled with the 'enemies of the people' and out of touch relics.
Much as many see the EU through the Beano language of the sun, utterly clueless about what it does, other than come up with absurd rules that go against the Britiush way if life'..... banning hedgehog flavoured crisps, allowing foreign vehicles to drive on the right in the UK and making the singing of the EU anthem compulsory in schools.
Unless voters understand how the Lords work, you will always be subject to the lies of the Mail, express, telegraph etc | | | |
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:09 - Feb 5 with 1151 views | DJR |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 17:54 - Feb 5 by chicoazul |
Having a state religion is a good thing and all our laws and culture are based on Christianity. I have no doubt this campaign will eventually succeed and our country will be irrevocably changed once again. It won’t be long before we are officially secular and probably atheist. Hilarious to conflate is wirhIran of course but there you go, many people will lap that up. |
Leaving aside the state religion question, I think the decline of Christianity is a shame but it is happening because many people these days don't believe.
I am inclined to think that any replacement for the Lords, if it were to happen, would end up with a religious element, but maybe composed of more than one faith. After all, at present, even Christians who are not CofE don't get a look in. | | | |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:17 - Feb 5 with 1136 views | factual_blue |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 17:33 - Feb 5 by Mullet |
Longing for your youth under Danelaw again eh? |
We Vikings thoroughly enjoyed setting about the dullards from Halesuworde. | |
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:25 - Feb 5 with 1108 views | chicoazul |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:06 - Feb 5 by Mullet |
That's the same mistake Rory Stewart was making. Conflating it with Iran or just pointing out it's a fact?
A bit like the capital punishment arguments when people list the USA alongside China, Uganda etc.
We should be secular, multicultural and democratic. Too many things which have held this country back post-empire have been cloaked under jingoism and nostalgia. Removing the mechanisms which allow that and making society more equitable should always be the aim over fear of change. Because, too many hide behind it and don't recognise the changes taking place when they're actually negative, not theoretically so. |
Democracy/universal suffrage is something I am less and less convinced about I’m afraid. Democracy is gamed and bought and corrupt all the time. Freedom, justice, the rule of law and the presumption of innocence are more important.
I have no doubt you’ll get your way in the end, but I strongly suspect it won’t be anything like what you hope for or expect. | |
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:29 - Feb 5 with 1095 views | HARRY10 |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:09 - Feb 5 by DJR |
Leaving aside the state religion question, I think the decline of Christianity is a shame but it is happening because many people these days don't believe.
I am inclined to think that any replacement for the Lords, if it were to happen, would end up with a religious element, but maybe composed of more than one faith. After all, at present, even Christians who are not CofE don't get a look in. |
"would end up with a religious element,"
The idea that a supposed belief in fairy tales has any part of law making is absurd.
The pageantry should go as well, as it underpins the notion that, those it venerates, have a greater call on the law making process, and perpetuates the illusion that there are 'betters' and the rest should be grateful of their cap doffing status.
And that those who have ended this nonsense aee somehow lesser people as they do not have a King (or queen as was)
Of course those that benefit from such an arrangement will always try to maintain their privilige. This does not mean the rest of us should accept it.
'off with their heads' says I | | | |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:29 - Feb 5 with 1096 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 17:54 - Feb 5 by chicoazul |
Having a state religion is a good thing and all our laws and culture are based on Christianity. I have no doubt this campaign will eventually succeed and our country will be irrevocably changed once again. It won’t be long before we are officially secular and probably atheist. Hilarious to conflate is wirhIran of course but there you go, many people will lap that up. |
We’re well on the way or arguably secular already aren’t we? Less than 50% declaring themselves as Christian in the last census (and you can be sure a chunk of those aren’t practicing) and nearly 40% of no religion.
The comparison with Iran is factual I believe. We’re obviously not as extreme, but then nobody is claiming we are. I don’t think there’s an issue here to seek less involvement of one specific brand of religion is our legislature. Or even a fully secular society isn’t a particular threat to our values. Religious fundamentalism seems a much bigger issue than atheist fundamentalism. | |
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:34 - Feb 5 with 1087 views | chicoazul |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:29 - Feb 5 by HARRY10 |
"would end up with a religious element,"
The idea that a supposed belief in fairy tales has any part of law making is absurd.
The pageantry should go as well, as it underpins the notion that, those it venerates, have a greater call on the law making process, and perpetuates the illusion that there are 'betters' and the rest should be grateful of their cap doffing status.
And that those who have ended this nonsense aee somehow lesser people as they do not have a King (or queen as was)
Of course those that benefit from such an arrangement will always try to maintain their privilige. This does not mean the rest of us should accept it.
'off with their heads' says I |
Spoken like a true Stalinist. | |
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| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:35 - Feb 5 with 1085 views | chicoazul |
| Sandi Toksvig bashing the bishops on 18:29 - Feb 5 by Swansea_Blue |
We’re well on the way or arguably secular already aren’t we? Less than 50% declaring themselves as Christian in the last census (and you can be sure a chunk of those aren’t practicing) and nearly 40% of no religion.
The comparison with Iran is factual I believe. We’re obviously not as extreme, but then nobody is claiming we are. I don’t think there’s an issue here to seek less involvement of one specific brand of religion is our legislature. Or even a fully secular society isn’t a particular threat to our values. Religious fundamentalism seems a much bigger issue than atheist fundamentalism. |
I see more than one person doesn’t understand what to conflate means, or why she is doing it. | |
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