| NHS Unison members accept pay deal 16:23 - Apr 14 with 1491 views | Mullet |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65275362?at_ptr_name=facebook_page&at_camp
Only 53% turnout. I notice this a lot. Seems Unions these days are merely insurance policies for far too many members. Regardless of the way disputes play out, there seems to be such apathy from members in many public service unions.
Wonder how much is media narrative, how much is people not engaging because they've not kept the unions informed of their new address/employer etc?
Could set a precedent given a similar deal has been rejected by teachers in the NEU. |  |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 16:51 - Apr 14 with 1421 views | BlueBadger |
Be interested to see how it pans out if the RCN reject it. Im honestly surprised that Unison got it through, tbh. I don't know anyone whos votedcto accept it.
www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nurses-strike-reject-government-pay-deal-b2319891.html%3famp [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 16:53]
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 16:53 - Apr 14 with 1412 views | Mullet |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 16:51 - Apr 14 by BlueBadger |
Be interested to see how it pans out if the RCN reject it. Im honestly surprised that Unison got it through, tbh. I don't know anyone whos votedcto accept it.
www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nurses-strike-reject-government-pay-deal-b2319891.html%3famp [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 16:53]
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Think this is what the government are counting on. Play unions off against each other and starve people out into accepting less and less.
Interesting anecdote about Gillian Keegan turning up for her meetings with Education chiefs wearing a sparkly Rolex and showing it off, came up in the annual conference last weekend. | |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 16:55 - Apr 14 with 1404 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 16:53 - Apr 14 by Mullet |
Think this is what the government are counting on. Play unions off against each other and starve people out into accepting less and less.
Interesting anecdote about Gillian Keegan turning up for her meetings with Education chiefs wearing a sparkly Rolex and showing it off, came up in the annual conference last weekend. |
Knock-off she got on holiday in Turkey. |  | | |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 16:59 - Apr 14 with 1382 views | BABLUE |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 16:55 - Apr 14 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Knock-off she got on holiday in Turkey. |
RCN voted 54-46 against the pay award |  | | |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 17:34 - Apr 14 with 1344 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 16:51 - Apr 14 by BlueBadger |
Be interested to see how it pans out if the RCN reject it. Im honestly surprised that Unison got it through, tbh. I don't know anyone whos votedcto accept it.
www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nurses-strike-reject-government-pay-deal-b2319891.html%3famp [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 16:53]
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Was about to post this when I saw it here.
First time in NHS history an all-out nurses strike.
Something wrong with your link too.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/nhs-nurses-reject-government-pay-offer-and
RCN had recommended accepting it too. [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 17:36]
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:29 - Apr 14 with 1294 views | BlueBadger |
Uppie for the correction.
Early noises are the government will totally be playing 'divide and rule'.
I am seriously considering changing my union as well, Unison have been piss-poor though this - not engaging with the other unions, half arsed local representation and a mealy-mouth response to the insulting offer. | |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:33 - Apr 14 with 1277 views | gtsb1966 |
Excuse my ignorance but do the people on strike get their wages topped up from a union fund? |  | | |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:38 - Apr 14 with 1260 views | Mullet |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:33 - Apr 14 by gtsb1966 |
Excuse my ignorance but do the people on strike get their wages topped up from a union fund? |
No idea in the case of Unison.
Most unions have a hardship fund, listening to some of the stats around teachers in financial difficulty, I dread to think what people on minimum/close to minimum wage are wrestling with.
Part of the government strategy is of course to make people lose as much money as possible if they don't accept terms. | |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:41 - Apr 14 with 1253 views | DJR |
Interesting to wonder if public sector pay would have been any higher had (New) Labour been in power these last 13 years, given the following (from 2012) I came across on the BBC website.
"Labour leader Ed Miliband has defended his party's decision to support the government's pay freeze for public sector workers.
He said it was "a hard choice", but when faced with either protecting jobs or giving pay rises, it was "absolutely right to prioritise employment".
Unions have criticised the move, accusing Labour of "emulating the Tories on many issues".
But Mr Miliband told the BBC his party had to show it was "fiscally credible".
The government announced in 2010 that public sector pay for those earning more than £21,000 would be frozen for two years.
Then last November Chancellor George Osborne said pay would rise by only 1% in the two years to 2015.
Shadow chancellor Ed Balls said on Saturday that "given the economy failing as it is... pay restraint is going to have to continue".
Corbyn did promise to reverse the position, but it's perhaps difficult to imagine a Starmer government being much different to the Tories on this.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-manifesto-corbyn-public-se
I suppose the only hope on this is for a Labour government to lead to greater growth, thus enabling public sector pay to rise, because there is no evidence (apart from the windfall tax) of Labour being willing to increase taxes or borrowing.
I say this with a bit a bit of sadness, having been a public sector worker in the relatively good times. The position couldn't be different for my daughter, planning to go into teaching but unlikely to see her wages increase by much more than inflation (if lucky) over the years. [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 18:50]
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:47 - Apr 14 with 1224 views | gtsb1966 |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:38 - Apr 14 by Mullet |
No idea in the case of Unison.
Most unions have a hardship fund, listening to some of the stats around teachers in financial difficulty, I dread to think what people on minimum/close to minimum wage are wrestling with.
Part of the government strategy is of course to make people lose as much money as possible if they don't accept terms. |
The reason I asked was because if they don't I can understand why people at the lower end of the pay scale would want it to end. The problem with strikes, been there done that, is that you have to suffer short term pain for long term gain. Unfortunately today many people can't suffer that short term pain. I know you know that so please don't think I'm being patronising. | | | |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:54 - Apr 14 with 1194 views | Mullet |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:41 - Apr 14 by DJR |
Interesting to wonder if public sector pay would have been any higher had (New) Labour been in power these last 13 years, given the following (from 2012) I came across on the BBC website.
"Labour leader Ed Miliband has defended his party's decision to support the government's pay freeze for public sector workers.
He said it was "a hard choice", but when faced with either protecting jobs or giving pay rises, it was "absolutely right to prioritise employment".
Unions have criticised the move, accusing Labour of "emulating the Tories on many issues".
But Mr Miliband told the BBC his party had to show it was "fiscally credible".
The government announced in 2010 that public sector pay for those earning more than £21,000 would be frozen for two years.
Then last November Chancellor George Osborne said pay would rise by only 1% in the two years to 2015.
Shadow chancellor Ed Balls said on Saturday that "given the economy failing as it is... pay restraint is going to have to continue".
Corbyn did promise to reverse the position, but it's perhaps difficult to imagine a Starmer government being much different to the Tories on this.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-manifesto-corbyn-public-se
I suppose the only hope on this is for a Labour government to lead to greater growth, thus enabling public sector pay to rise, because there is no evidence (apart from the windfall tax) of Labour being willing to increase taxes or borrowing.
I say this with a bit a bit of sadness, having been a public sector worker in the relatively good times. The position couldn't be different for my daughter, planning to go into teaching but unlikely to see her wages increase by much more than inflation (if lucky) over the years. [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 18:50]
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Had Labour have been in charge, would it definitely still be Our Jezza in the hot seat though? Hard to know isn't it? Especially given he doesn't always say a lot on uncomfortable issues when asked to lead, or simply lead.
If it'd have been New Labour, then Brexit would never have happened and the economy would be in a different place. How different is anybody's guess surely? It's hard to see a shortage of workers, Gove's anti-union laws being passed or the need for strikes in a context like this though. | |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:56 - Apr 14 with 1172 views | Mullet |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:47 - Apr 14 by gtsb1966 |
The reason I asked was because if they don't I can understand why people at the lower end of the pay scale would want it to end. The problem with strikes, been there done that, is that you have to suffer short term pain for long term gain. Unfortunately today many people can't suffer that short term pain. I know you know that so please don't think I'm being patronising. |
I didn't think that at all.
That's why I always shake my head when people slate those on strike as if they just can't be bothered etc. The action of striking is at huge cost in more than just money.
The fact it also hurts those with less the most is hugely problematic. | |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 19:00 - Apr 14 with 1158 views | DJR |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:33 - Apr 14 by gtsb1966 |
Excuse my ignorance but do the people on strike get their wages topped up from a union fund? |
This is not normally the case, but in the case of the passport strike, a strike fund worth millions, funded by a levy from PCS members, has been built up to pay staff in full during the course of the five-week walkout. | | | |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 19:00 - Apr 14 with 1156 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:41 - Apr 14 by DJR |
Interesting to wonder if public sector pay would have been any higher had (New) Labour been in power these last 13 years, given the following (from 2012) I came across on the BBC website.
"Labour leader Ed Miliband has defended his party's decision to support the government's pay freeze for public sector workers.
He said it was "a hard choice", but when faced with either protecting jobs or giving pay rises, it was "absolutely right to prioritise employment".
Unions have criticised the move, accusing Labour of "emulating the Tories on many issues".
But Mr Miliband told the BBC his party had to show it was "fiscally credible".
The government announced in 2010 that public sector pay for those earning more than £21,000 would be frozen for two years.
Then last November Chancellor George Osborne said pay would rise by only 1% in the two years to 2015.
Shadow chancellor Ed Balls said on Saturday that "given the economy failing as it is... pay restraint is going to have to continue".
Corbyn did promise to reverse the position, but it's perhaps difficult to imagine a Starmer government being much different to the Tories on this.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-manifesto-corbyn-public-se
I suppose the only hope on this is for a Labour government to lead to greater growth, thus enabling public sector pay to rise, because there is no evidence (apart from the windfall tax) of Labour being willing to increase taxes or borrowing.
I say this with a bit a bit of sadness, having been a public sector worker in the relatively good times. The position couldn't be different for my daughter, planning to go into teaching but unlikely to see her wages increase by much more than inflation (if lucky) over the years. [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 18:50]
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It is all ifs and buts.
With better investment in public services, no Brexit, better management of the economy, higher taxation on higher earners and corporations, no corrupt contracts for PPE, etc. the general outlook would be very different for everyone. Instead top executive pay is out of control, utilities are charging record prices in order to make record profits and those at the bottom of the pile are told there isn't enough money.
Frankly, enough is enough. | |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 19:06 - Apr 14 with 1131 views | gtsb1966 |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:56 - Apr 14 by Mullet |
I didn't think that at all.
That's why I always shake my head when people slate those on strike as if they just can't be bothered etc. The action of striking is at huge cost in more than just money.
The fact it also hurts those with less the most is hugely problematic. |
It's a war of attrition across all sectors which the government will win...for now. They'll come out with the usual spiel of how they compromised and the workers are obviously happy because they voted for it. Their vote at the next election might just refute those claims though. | | | |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 19:28 - Apr 14 with 1096 views | DJR |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:54 - Apr 14 by Mullet |
Had Labour have been in charge, would it definitely still be Our Jezza in the hot seat though? Hard to know isn't it? Especially given he doesn't always say a lot on uncomfortable issues when asked to lead, or simply lead.
If it'd have been New Labour, then Brexit would never have happened and the economy would be in a different place. How different is anybody's guess surely? It's hard to see a shortage of workers, Gove's anti-union laws being passed or the need for strikes in a context like this though. |
Oh, yes, it's very difficult to know what might have happened but at least in terms of the position to 2015, the position on public sector pay would have been no different, and I tend to think that was when the real damage was done both on public sector pay and austerity more generally.
And of course, Corbyn might not have been able to achieve anything, not least because of the pandemic.
But I think the fact that Labour are so keen not to support strikes, suggests to me that they would probably not be offering any more in terms of pay increases than the Government, so it is not clear to me the strikes would not be going on were Labour in power.
At the end of the day, the obsession of both parties about not increasing the rate of taxes in my view means we are never likely in the future to have public services on a par with most decent European countries. [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 19:29]
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 19:30 - Apr 14 with 1079 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 19:28 - Apr 14 by DJR |
Oh, yes, it's very difficult to know what might have happened but at least in terms of the position to 2015, the position on public sector pay would have been no different, and I tend to think that was when the real damage was done both on public sector pay and austerity more generally.
And of course, Corbyn might not have been able to achieve anything, not least because of the pandemic.
But I think the fact that Labour are so keen not to support strikes, suggests to me that they would probably not be offering any more in terms of pay increases than the Government, so it is not clear to me the strikes would not be going on were Labour in power.
At the end of the day, the obsession of both parties about not increasing the rate of taxes in my view means we are never likely in the future to have public services on a par with most decent European countries. [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 19:29]
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It is also depressing because it is the direction of travel of Labour under Starmer too. It is likely that whichever way the next election goes, the defunding and ultimate privatisation for profit of public services will continue apace. | |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 20:52 - Apr 14 with 1028 views | factual_blue |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 16:59 - Apr 14 by BABLUE |
RCN voted 54-46 against the pay award |
I'd say a huge proportion of our brave fifty-two percenters will argue that isn't a decisive majority.... |  |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 13:22 - Apr 15 with 858 views | gazzer1999 |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 18:54 - Apr 14 by Mullet |
Had Labour have been in charge, would it definitely still be Our Jezza in the hot seat though? Hard to know isn't it? Especially given he doesn't always say a lot on uncomfortable issues when asked to lead, or simply lead.
If it'd have been New Labour, then Brexit would never have happened and the economy would be in a different place. How different is anybody's guess surely? It's hard to see a shortage of workers, Gove's anti-union laws being passed or the need for strikes in a context like this though. |
"If it'd have been New Labour, then Brexit would never have happened and the economy would be in a different place. How different is anybody's guess surely? It's hard to see a shortage of workers"
Very strange comment that Brexit would not have happened, I guess you mean that there would never have been a vote in the first place. Remember Cameron and his government told us to vote to stay in, just those on the fringes like Johnson and his followers sided with leave. The economies in Europe are not faring much better than ours, just look at the powerhouse that is Germany. Covid is the main cause of our woes currently and how we find the money to cover what we lost. As for a shortage of workers look at the figures for inactive people, over 6 million. We don't have a shortage just that we have people that think a job in hospitality or the like is beneath them and that its only for Eastern Europeans to do this work, then complain that they are stealing their jobs.
We need to ensure that we do not write off another generation of young people and train them to do the jobs that this country obviously needs. I know this will take time and I am sure Starmer will at some point say this is what his government will do, however successive governments have ignored young people and just taken the easy option of importing labour for the workforce. |  | | |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 13:23 - Apr 15 with 857 views | Mullet |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 13:22 - Apr 15 by gazzer1999 |
"If it'd have been New Labour, then Brexit would never have happened and the economy would be in a different place. How different is anybody's guess surely? It's hard to see a shortage of workers"
Very strange comment that Brexit would not have happened, I guess you mean that there would never have been a vote in the first place. Remember Cameron and his government told us to vote to stay in, just those on the fringes like Johnson and his followers sided with leave. The economies in Europe are not faring much better than ours, just look at the powerhouse that is Germany. Covid is the main cause of our woes currently and how we find the money to cover what we lost. As for a shortage of workers look at the figures for inactive people, over 6 million. We don't have a shortage just that we have people that think a job in hospitality or the like is beneath them and that its only for Eastern Europeans to do this work, then complain that they are stealing their jobs.
We need to ensure that we do not write off another generation of young people and train them to do the jobs that this country obviously needs. I know this will take time and I am sure Starmer will at some point say this is what his government will do, however successive governments have ignored young people and just taken the easy option of importing labour for the workforce. |
Very strange then you answer with the most simple explanation.
Brexit has fcuked this country up, no competent government would have promised it, promoted it or lied to get it done.
They have blood on their hands. | |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 13:32 - Apr 15 with 840 views | gazzer1999 |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 13:23 - Apr 15 by Mullet |
Very strange then you answer with the most simple explanation.
Brexit has fcuked this country up, no competent government would have promised it, promoted it or lied to get it done.
They have blood on their hands. |
But the government of the day told you to remain and when he lost he bu**ered off, or are you trying to rewire history. Half the Labour Party voted to leave and all their supporters in the red wall got it over the line. Covid is the reason we have no money and you know it as do most sane people. We will never know if things would look different today if covid or Brexit never happened but they did, we now have to find a way forward instead of looking back. | | | |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 13:49 - Apr 15 with 810 views | Mullet |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 13:32 - Apr 15 by gazzer1999 |
But the government of the day told you to remain and when he lost he bu**ered off, or are you trying to rewire history. Half the Labour Party voted to leave and all their supporters in the red wall got it over the line. Covid is the reason we have no money and you know it as do most sane people. We will never know if things would look different today if covid or Brexit never happened but they did, we now have to find a way forward instead of looking back. |
There would never have been a Brexit vote if Labour were in charge Gazzer. It's very simple.
Pretending you lot haven't fcuked up a country you claim to love isn't going to make life easier for the rest of us having to deal with the pieces it's in.
The vote came around to appease the semi and full fascists in the Tory party and shore up a sh1tshow. Nothing else.
Please stop chatting nonsense. | |
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| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 21:46 - Apr 15 with 730 views | HARRY10 |
| NHS Unison members accept pay deal on 13:22 - Apr 15 by gazzer1999 |
"If it'd have been New Labour, then Brexit would never have happened and the economy would be in a different place. How different is anybody's guess surely? It's hard to see a shortage of workers"
Very strange comment that Brexit would not have happened, I guess you mean that there would never have been a vote in the first place. Remember Cameron and his government told us to vote to stay in, just those on the fringes like Johnson and his followers sided with leave. The economies in Europe are not faring much better than ours, just look at the powerhouse that is Germany. Covid is the main cause of our woes currently and how we find the money to cover what we lost. As for a shortage of workers look at the figures for inactive people, over 6 million. We don't have a shortage just that we have people that think a job in hospitality or the like is beneath them and that its only for Eastern Europeans to do this work, then complain that they are stealing their jobs.
We need to ensure that we do not write off another generation of young people and train them to do the jobs that this country obviously needs. I know this will take time and I am sure Starmer will at some point say this is what his government will do, however successive governments have ignored young people and just taken the easy option of importing labour for the workforce. |
That is absurd to say the least, almost up there with the Parrot Sketch in trying to deny the blindingly obvious.
The UK's enforced labour shortage will not be addressed by combing through the ranks of the sick, the disabled and the mentally unwell. Not does it address the difficulties of moving to where the work is. OK as a young East European, four in a one bed flat, not so good for a two or more child UK family.
Job are usually needing to be filled almost immediately, not years after the government tries to train a few youngsters. The reality it is not even doing that.
Blaming Covid does not distract from the low growth of the UK economy, and the damage* that is being caused that will not show up till months or years later. "Successive governments" by that you mean Tory governments. Those now leaving school were not even in school when the Tories took over.
One of the first things to recovery from being an alcoholic is an admittance of that alcoholism. At some point brexiters will have to come to terms with the massive damage their idiocy is doing and will continue to do to the country. The rime for lyng is long over.
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The UK is also losing out on tourists from the rest of the world, according to Tom Jenkins, chief executive of Etoa, the European tourism association. “People are starting to drop the UK as a gateway to a European tour"
Just as school parties, and other EU members, who don't see why they should go through the rigmarole (and cost) of getting a passport just to visit the UK. And as brexit rules make it harder and more expensive to get goods out of the UK so the same costly red tape is reducing visitor numbers.
With performers, musicians touring companies finding the cost and red tape is stopping them from working in the UK, as it also stops UK artistes working in the EU, we are becoming a forgotten backwater as far the performing arts are concerned.
And to think this stupidity was once thought a good idea, by some. | | | |
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