| Kosovo... 19:32 - May 30 with 2342 views | bluelagos |
Any of Twtds informed posters got any knowledge of the history of Kosovo?
Just watching the news of Serbs attacking UN peacekeepers and the grievance was reported as Albainian mayors being appointed in Serbian areas.
Did a quick Google and it seems the northern areas of Kosovo are over 90% Serbian, which begs the question how did these areas end up part of Kosovo and not part of Serbia?
The populations are not big numbers so seems even more strange that these areas have ended up attached to a country where the majority want to be in another. [Post edited 30 May 2023 19:33]
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| Kosovo... on 20:20 - May 30 with 2166 views | factual_blue |
I wouldn't be at all surprised if russia hadn't been egging the Serbs on. One way of actually injuring NATO troops. |  |
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| Kosovo... on 20:28 - May 30 with 2141 views | DJR |
| Kosovo... on 20:20 - May 30 by factual_blue |
I wouldn't be at all surprised if russia hadn't been egging the Serbs on. One way of actually injuring NATO troops. |
This from the BBC website (which confirms what I heard on the World Service) indicates that Albanian Kosovans were the cause.
"Ethnic Serbs and ethnic Serb parties refused to take part in last month's mayoral elections in four municipalities in north Kosovo. That depressed turnout to just 3.5% - and facilitated the election of ethnic Albanian mayors in towns where the vast majority of people are Serbs.
Despite the boycott, Kosovo's international allies had supported the elections. But they changed their tune when it became clear that the new mayors had no mandate to speak of.
Behind the scenes, they urged Kosovo's authorities to tread carefully, to avoid stoking tensions in the north.
Their advice fell on deaf ears. Last Friday, armed special police forced their way into municipal buildings in three of the towns, so the new mayors could take office in person. They also removed Serbian flags and replaced them with Kosovo's gold-and-blue standard.
It prompted a furious response from Kosovo's staunchest supporters.
The EU and Nato urged Mr Kurti to step back from a clearly provocative position. But the sternest statement of all came from US Secretary of State Antony Blinken.
He said the US "strongly condemns the actions by the government of Kosovo", which had "sharply and unnecessarily escalated tensions, undermining our efforts to help normalise relations between Kosovo and Serbia". He warned there would be "consequences for our bilateral relations with Kosovo".
But this rebuke had little impact on Mr Kurti, who ignored the calls to de-escalate and blithely stated that Kosovo still enjoyed international support as tensions simmered over the weekend." [Post edited 30 May 2023 20:30]
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| Kosovo... on 21:06 - May 30 with 2074 views | Steve_M |
The whole failure of Yugoslavia was due to population imbalances and minorities, Serbia was too dominant within the federal state leading to resentment from the other states but those states, Bosnia especially, had minority Serb populations. So, when Milosevic and Tujdman escalated ethnic tensions in the early 90s it went very badly wrong with civil war, atrocities from multiple sides culminating in the genocide of Bosnian Muslims.
Kosovo was a province of Serbia so remained part of it until NATO intervened to prevent further genocide in 1999. The added factor here is that Serbian nationalism marks Kosovo as the site of Serbian defeat in 1389 so part of their foundation myth. Serbian nationalists still dispute the loss of Kosovo and the Kosovan government is also intransigent about any compromises on land. There’s no doubt some Russian stirring going on at the moment too.
Misha Glenny has written some good stuff on the area, ‘The Fall of Yugoslavia’ on the descent into civil war in 1992 and a longer (much longer) history of the Balkans which goes over a lot of the older history. |  |
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| Kosovo... on 21:16 - May 30 with 2041 views | bluelagos |
For anyone interested, this is the news report that prompted the thread.
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| Kosovo... on 08:33 - May 31 with 1805 views | ElephantintheRoom |
It’s part of Finland apparently |  |
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| Kosovo... on 09:14 - May 31 with 1751 views | DJR |
| Kosovo... on 21:06 - May 30 by Steve_M |
The whole failure of Yugoslavia was due to population imbalances and minorities, Serbia was too dominant within the federal state leading to resentment from the other states but those states, Bosnia especially, had minority Serb populations. So, when Milosevic and Tujdman escalated ethnic tensions in the early 90s it went very badly wrong with civil war, atrocities from multiple sides culminating in the genocide of Bosnian Muslims.
Kosovo was a province of Serbia so remained part of it until NATO intervened to prevent further genocide in 1999. The added factor here is that Serbian nationalism marks Kosovo as the site of Serbian defeat in 1389 so part of their foundation myth. Serbian nationalists still dispute the loss of Kosovo and the Kosovan government is also intransigent about any compromises on land. There’s no doubt some Russian stirring going on at the moment too.
Misha Glenny has written some good stuff on the area, ‘The Fall of Yugoslavia’ on the descent into civil war in 1992 and a longer (much longer) history of the Balkans which goes over a lot of the older history. |
Interestingly, I visited Yugoslavia in 1981, whilst it was still a communist state.
It was much more prosperous than fellow communist countries Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary (which I also visited around that time), and it was even possible to buy Coca-Cola.
I visited the various parts and got the distinct impression that Tito was very popular everywhere because there were photos of him in shops and the like, even though he had died a year earlier.
It may well be that the bound the various ethnic groups together, not least because he was born to a Croat father and a Slovene mother. But things certainly changed following the fall of communism. [Post edited 31 May 2023 9:19]
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| Kosovo... on 10:17 - May 31 with 1697 views | Raffles |
Why they aren't in Serbia is what the Serbs want to know. Ever since they lost the Battle of Kosovo in 13489 the Serbs have felt their rightful claims to a greater Serbia have been thwarted. (It's what caused the most recent Balkan war, and arguably all of them.)
The Serbs arrived in the 6th century as tribes of Slavs, and at that time occupied Serbia, Herzegovena and Kosovo, but the advance of the Turks deprived them of those other territories and they became a Turkish vassal state. It was only during the 19th century that they gained independence again, and set about re-establishing their claims. But the ethnic, religious and language differences have continued to prove prickly and sometimes lead to bloodshed. | | | |
| Kosovo... on 10:50 - May 31 with 1638 views | ronnyd |
| Kosovo... on 10:17 - May 31 by Raffles |
Why they aren't in Serbia is what the Serbs want to know. Ever since they lost the Battle of Kosovo in 13489 the Serbs have felt their rightful claims to a greater Serbia have been thwarted. (It's what caused the most recent Balkan war, and arguably all of them.)
The Serbs arrived in the 6th century as tribes of Slavs, and at that time occupied Serbia, Herzegovena and Kosovo, but the advance of the Turks deprived them of those other territories and they became a Turkish vassal state. It was only during the 19th century that they gained independence again, and set about re-establishing their claims. But the ethnic, religious and language differences have continued to prove prickly and sometimes lead to bloodshed. |
Blimey, that's one hell of a crystal ball you have there mate, as that's waaay into the future.  | | | |
| Kosovo... on 11:27 - May 31 with 1593 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Kosovo... on 09:14 - May 31 by DJR |
Interestingly, I visited Yugoslavia in 1981, whilst it was still a communist state.
It was much more prosperous than fellow communist countries Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary (which I also visited around that time), and it was even possible to buy Coca-Cola.
I visited the various parts and got the distinct impression that Tito was very popular everywhere because there were photos of him in shops and the like, even though he had died a year earlier.
It may well be that the bound the various ethnic groups together, not least because he was born to a Croat father and a Slovene mother. But things certainly changed following the fall of communism. [Post edited 31 May 2023 9:19]
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Yugoslavia deliberately positioned themselves in a more neutral stance towards the West rather than a belligerent pro-Soviet policy. This certainly paid a big part in the better standard of living due to increased trade in comparison to some of the other puppet states in the Eastern block.
Having visited a few of the former Yugoslav countries last year there’s still an underlying hatred towards the Serbs (which isn’t really surprising). Bosnia is a bit of a laggard, but Croatia has come a long way since communism - full EU membership, Euro adoption and wealth on a par with countries such Spain. | | | |
| Kosovo... on 18:12 - May 31 with 1467 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Kosovo... on 21:16 - May 30 by bluelagos |
For anyone interested, this is the news report that prompted the thread.
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| Kosovo... on 19:54 - May 31 with 1405 views | Kievthegreat |
| Kosovo... on 19:58 - May 30 by Clapham_Junction |
Kosovo's boundaries are the same as when it was a province of Serbia. From what I know, it's always been a quite mixed region, so there are pockets of Serbs in Kosovo and pockets of Albanians in Serbia.
The issue comes from a refusal by politicians to entertain the idea of redrawing borders to more accurately reflect the population mix (because they claim it would lead to more fighting). There was a proposal (from an unknown source) a couple of years ago to do this, which would have resulted in the Serb bits of northern Kosovo to be transferred to Serbia (plus the Serb-dominated bits of Bosnia) and seen Kosovo merged into Albania.
Edit: This article on a possible Serbia/Kosovo land swap from 2018 is also relevant/interesting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45423835
 [Post edited 30 May 2023 20:02]
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While there may be 'better' borders possible, there is no border to satisfy all, or in fact anyone.
The problem with many countries from the Balkans, all the way through to Ukraine is the legacy of the empires that ruled there. Being part of a large multicultural empire like the Ottomans, Hasburgs, etc... you have significant mixing between cultures. If you then want to draw boundaries on ethnic lines, you have significant mixed areas, and you cannot draw a nice neat line between them. From the Sudetenlad, to Srpska, to Smyrna, there is no border that doesn't leave people on the 'wrong side'. |  | | |
| Kosovo... on 21:11 - May 31 with 1354 views | Coastalblue |
| Kosovo... on 19:54 - May 31 by Kievthegreat |
While there may be 'better' borders possible, there is no border to satisfy all, or in fact anyone.
The problem with many countries from the Balkans, all the way through to Ukraine is the legacy of the empires that ruled there. Being part of a large multicultural empire like the Ottomans, Hasburgs, etc... you have significant mixing between cultures. If you then want to draw boundaries on ethnic lines, you have significant mixed areas, and you cannot draw a nice neat line between them. From the Sudetenlad, to Srpska, to Smyrna, there is no border that doesn't leave people on the 'wrong side'. |
Exactly, borders cause problems in all parts of the world, unfortunately the current trend among many is to try and reinforce them, as we have recently done here, as opposed to working toward the understanding we are all just people. |  |
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