| Rugby à quinze fans... 21:06 - Oct 21 with 3149 views | NthQldITFC |
I thought the game had become a bit more dynamic a few years ago. Has it gone back to lots of kicking again or is it just this game? |  |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 21:11 - Oct 21 with 3118 views | Chrisd |
The wet conditions are causing the amount of kicking from both sides. Credit to England they have been brilliant so far, I really didn’t think they had it in them to perform like this. |  |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 21:12 - Oct 21 with 3118 views | Plums |
I definitely don't watch much rugby but this looks a completely different sport to the France v RSA game! |  |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:05 - Oct 21 with 2990 views | _clive_baker_ |
Englands kicking game was good tonight but the SA scrum was unplayable for that last 20 minutes.
Great effort though. Said in the week talk of a 30 point defeat was ludicrous, we’ve still got some very good players and encouragingly a lot of spirit. Proud of that performance to be honest, lost to a top side, world number 1. Hell of an effort. |  | | |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:20 - Oct 21 with 2930 views | solemio |
Great effort, England.
I did think that with about 15 minutes to go Farrell might move back to Centre and Ford come on at Fly Half. | | | |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:21 - Oct 21 with 2928 views | RadioOrwell |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:05 - Oct 21 by _clive_baker_ |
Englands kicking game was good tonight but the SA scrum was unplayable for that last 20 minutes.
Great effort though. Said in the week talk of a 30 point defeat was ludicrous, we’ve still got some very good players and encouragingly a lot of spirit. Proud of that performance to be honest, lost to a top side, world number 1. Hell of an effort. |
Who said 30 points defeat ? |  | | |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:32 - Oct 21 with 2901 views | NthQldITFC |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:05 - Oct 21 by _clive_baker_ |
Englands kicking game was good tonight but the SA scrum was unplayable for that last 20 minutes.
Great effort though. Said in the week talk of a 30 point defeat was ludicrous, we’ve still got some very good players and encouragingly a lot of spirit. Proud of that performance to be honest, lost to a top side, world number 1. Hell of an effort. |
I'm a League fan, myself, I can't pretend to understand the scrum rules of Union, but it seems incredibly harsh that a game can effectively be decided by repeated technical infringements of one bloke's knee touching the ground because another bloke's hip has twisted in slightly earlier or something.
There must be a better way to handle the failure outcomes of scrums surely? | |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:49 - Oct 21 with 2857 views | Chrisd |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:05 - Oct 21 by _clive_baker_ |
Englands kicking game was good tonight but the SA scrum was unplayable for that last 20 minutes.
Great effort though. Said in the week talk of a 30 point defeat was ludicrous, we’ve still got some very good players and encouragingly a lot of spirit. Proud of that performance to be honest, lost to a top side, world number 1. Hell of an effort. |
A 30pt margin was never ludicrous, the way we have played during this tournament and the way SA have played the difference was vast, also SA had been better than us in every department. Let’s be fair, not one English fan was expecting that display tonight, it was magnificent. However, top sides like SA find those small margins to get the job done. Credit to them, NZ vs SA provides a fitting World Cup final. | |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:54 - Oct 21 with 2840 views | Chrisd |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:21 - Oct 21 by RadioOrwell |
Who said 30 points defeat ? |
I did. I was genuinely worried that we’d get a spanking like Argentina did last night. There was not one part of our game that we were better than SA going into that semi final and when they get going they are a formidable side. Yes, we were undefeated, but our play has been slow, laboured, predictable and against much lesser sides. Anyone that says they saw that England performance coming isn’t being entirely honest, but the wet conditions certainly helped matters. Plenty to be proud of and to build on for England, so not all doom and gloom. | |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 01:08 - Oct 22 with 2756 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:49 - Oct 21 by Chrisd |
A 30pt margin was never ludicrous, the way we have played during this tournament and the way SA have played the difference was vast, also SA had been better than us in every department. Let’s be fair, not one English fan was expecting that display tonight, it was magnificent. However, top sides like SA find those small margins to get the job done. Credit to them, NZ vs SA provides a fitting World Cup final. |
Yes it was. It would’ve been one of the top 3 heaviest World Cup semi final defeats ever. The overreaction to this current England team is ridiculous. | | | |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 05:05 - Oct 22 with 2714 views | Chrisd |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 01:08 - Oct 22 by _clive_baker_ |
Yes it was. It would’ve been one of the top 3 heaviest World Cup semi final defeats ever. The overreaction to this current England team is ridiculous. |
Not really. Going into this tournament there was little to be encouraged about, during the group the stage we made hard work of things. To then step it up against the best side in world rugby there really wasn’t much to suggest last night’s performance was coming. | |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 07:48 - Oct 22 with 2667 views | DJR |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 22:32 - Oct 21 by NthQldITFC |
I'm a League fan, myself, I can't pretend to understand the scrum rules of Union, but it seems incredibly harsh that a game can effectively be decided by repeated technical infringements of one bloke's knee touching the ground because another bloke's hip has twisted in slightly earlier or something.
There must be a better way to handle the failure outcomes of scrums surely? |
I used to play rugby union when I was growing up, but to be honest I have no idea of the rules these days, and can rarely fathom why one particular side is penalised. [Post edited 22 Oct 2023 9:34]
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 09:26 - Oct 22 with 2589 views | Darth_Koont |
Bit of both.
Conditions certainly weren’t great for flowing rugby but they weren’t awful. And I don’t believe the overall game structure and style would have changed that much if it was dry.
This is how South Africa have played all tournament with the cross-field box kick their go-to weapon. England were set up to defend that e.g. Steward as one of the best in the world at dealing with the high ball. But England also play a version of this themselves with set-piece strength, big forward power, and kick and chase half-backs lobbing artillery behind.
It’s effective but it’s very much a percentage game and forcing mistakes/penalties rather than opening up space to attack (which is the French kicking game) or taking risks in attack with snipes around the edges, offloads and a willingness to move the ball from touchline to touchline during possession (France and Ireland in particular).
It’s a World Cup semi so it’s about winning (or rather not losing) and the commitment on both sides can’t be faulted. But we saw how the game can be stifling at this level. It was a pretty meh spectacle from a neutral’s point of view — except for that scoreboard tension and the overall importance of the occasion.
Unfortunately, I don’t see the final as being much different unless NZ take the view that their best chance of success will come in the wider channels and getting players like Jordan, Ioane and Beauden Barrett on the ball. But that’s only after they prove they can deal with South Africa’s aerial bombardment so that trench warfare between the packs and the kicking/catching battle between the backs will likely set the tone again. |  |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 09:49 - Oct 22 with 2556 views | EdwardStone |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 07:48 - Oct 22 by DJR |
I used to play rugby union when I was growing up, but to be honest I have no idea of the rules these days, and can rarely fathom why one particular side is penalised. [Post edited 22 Oct 2023 9:34]
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Exactly this..... seemingly arbitrary "penalty" decisions from the ref for the most opaque reasons to me as a very occasional viewer
And the resultant penalty kick leads to points and changes the result of the match
Imagine if every free kick in proper football led to a goal, we would be well furious, because a few dodgy reffing decisions would have a totally disproportional effect on the outcome of the game.
As the full time whistle blew in Paris last night I felt cheated..... it all seemed like a weasely greasy stitch-up. |  | | |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 10:07 - Oct 22 with 2516 views | Simonds92 |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 09:49 - Oct 22 by EdwardStone |
Exactly this..... seemingly arbitrary "penalty" decisions from the ref for the most opaque reasons to me as a very occasional viewer
And the resultant penalty kick leads to points and changes the result of the match
Imagine if every free kick in proper football led to a goal, we would be well furious, because a few dodgy reffing decisions would have a totally disproportional effect on the outcome of the game.
As the full time whistle blew in Paris last night I felt cheated..... it all seemed like a weasely greasy stitch-up. |
For me last night demonstrated exactly why we dont want that kind of officiating in football. The people go to watch the sport, not the man in the middle dictating everything. Seems he was given complete autonomy to see the game a certain way and allowed him to get petty with Farrell and effectively give SA 3 points. | | | |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 10:11 - Oct 22 with 2508 views | NthQldITFC |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 09:49 - Oct 22 by EdwardStone |
Exactly this..... seemingly arbitrary "penalty" decisions from the ref for the most opaque reasons to me as a very occasional viewer
And the resultant penalty kick leads to points and changes the result of the match
Imagine if every free kick in proper football led to a goal, we would be well furious, because a few dodgy reffing decisions would have a totally disproportional effect on the outcome of the game.
As the full time whistle blew in Paris last night I felt cheated..... it all seemed like a weasely greasy stitch-up. |
That was my feeling too, the whole outcome of the game seems to be in the hands of the ref's interpretation of a cut off point in an analogue situation. Whilst the same can be said of other codes to some extent, the fact that it was seemingly inevitable that SA could force that situation repeatedly in a phase of play which doesn't really involve the ball, makes it a pretty unsporting and uninteresting experience to me. | |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 10:53 - Oct 22 with 2453 views | Radlett_blue |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 10:11 - Oct 22 by NthQldITFC |
That was my feeling too, the whole outcome of the game seems to be in the hands of the ref's interpretation of a cut off point in an analogue situation. Whilst the same can be said of other codes to some extent, the fact that it was seemingly inevitable that SA could force that situation repeatedly in a phase of play which doesn't really involve the ball, makes it a pretty unsporting and uninteresting experience to me. |
Totally agree. The "scrum penalty lottery" is a blight on the game. If a scrum becomes a mess, as it often does, the referee has to make an educated guess as to which front row caused the problem. The winner of the lottery then gains 40 yards of territory plus a good chance of retaining possession through the resultant line out, or a free 3 points if it's within kicking range. This regularly decides tight games of rugby. One reform is to make most scrum offences free kicks, rather than penalty kicks, but I would go further - in the event of a scrum collapsing, the next scrum is uncontested & possession goes to the team the referee thinks did not cause the collapse.
Last night, a limited England team game with a sound game plan against the Saffers on a wet night when handling the ball was going to be hard. They executed the plan well & there were some outstanding performances from the likes of Lawes & Steward. However, the SA bench, especially the prop replacements changed the game & arguably England should have been a bit more adventurous with the ball in the 2nd half. A very exciting game for those invested in the outcome, but not a great watch for a neutral.. |  |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 10:54 - Oct 22 with 2455 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 10:07 - Oct 22 by Simonds92 |
For me last night demonstrated exactly why we dont want that kind of officiating in football. The people go to watch the sport, not the man in the middle dictating everything. Seems he was given complete autonomy to see the game a certain way and allowed him to get petty with Farrell and effectively give SA 3 points. |
No, Farrell deserved that. Not to mention being in the ref’s ear and whining the rest of the time too.
There were a few mistakes in the officiating but generally it was very good. Especially considering this was exactly the kind of game which was won and lost on how much you could spoil the opposition’s game on the very edge of the rules (and often over) but still get away with it.
Officiating does decide the game at the top level, but that’s because it is all about these fine margins. And the teams are set up to play for these decisions. | |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 11:23 - Oct 22 with 2401 views | Radlett_blue |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 10:07 - Oct 22 by Simonds92 |
For me last night demonstrated exactly why we dont want that kind of officiating in football. The people go to watch the sport, not the man in the middle dictating everything. Seems he was given complete autonomy to see the game a certain way and allowed him to get petty with Farrell and effectively give SA 3 points. |
Rugby has always maintained a culture of respect for the referee, largely because any dissent leads to a 10 yard penalty, which matters in a territorial game like rugby. Farrell was undisciplined & I bet that wasn't his first offence last night. Criticising the referee for enforcing the laws shows a lack of understanding of rugby. | |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 11:36 - Oct 22 with 2381 views | EdwardStone |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 11:23 - Oct 22 by Radlett_blue |
Rugby has always maintained a culture of respect for the referee, largely because any dissent leads to a 10 yard penalty, which matters in a territorial game like rugby. Farrell was undisciplined & I bet that wasn't his first offence last night. Criticising the referee for enforcing the laws shows a lack of understanding of rugby. |
I don't understand rugby, but it seems to my untutored eye that there are 20 or more punishable offences happening every moment of every game, violent conduct, off-ball tackles, players in the "wrong" place, knock-ons etc.
The vast majority of these are unpunished but some are noticed by the ref and punished. Some of these result in a penalty kick and frequently that gifts 3 points to one team.
It is the finickity nature of the ever-changing rules and the arbitrary nature of the fouls given that make the game such a dismal watch for an outsider.
A match decided by a late and seemingly random penalty award seems monsterously unfair.
My suggestion would be to reduce the points won by a successful penalty kick, maybe to 0.3 of a point to get the teams trying harder to score tries and keep the spectacle of the match a bit more dynamic and flowing | | | |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 12:01 - Oct 22 with 2332 views | Radlett_blue |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 11:36 - Oct 22 by EdwardStone |
I don't understand rugby, but it seems to my untutored eye that there are 20 or more punishable offences happening every moment of every game, violent conduct, off-ball tackles, players in the "wrong" place, knock-ons etc.
The vast majority of these are unpunished but some are noticed by the ref and punished. Some of these result in a penalty kick and frequently that gifts 3 points to one team.
It is the finickity nature of the ever-changing rules and the arbitrary nature of the fouls given that make the game such a dismal watch for an outsider.
A match decided by a late and seemingly random penalty award seems monsterously unfair.
My suggestion would be to reduce the points won by a successful penalty kick, maybe to 0.3 of a point to get the teams trying harder to score tries and keep the spectacle of the match a bit more dynamic and flowing |
You're right. Rugby is a complex game, near impossible to referee. However, reducing the value of the penalty kick relative to the try has the unappealing consequence that defences will then perpetually commit offences, particularly offside, in the knowledge that they will prevent a try & the sanction for the offence is minimal. | |
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| Rugby à quinze fans... on 12:10 - Oct 22 with 2312 views | EdwardStone |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 12:01 - Oct 22 by Radlett_blue |
You're right. Rugby is a complex game, near impossible to referee. However, reducing the value of the penalty kick relative to the try has the unappealing consequence that defences will then perpetually commit offences, particularly offside, in the knowledge that they will prevent a try & the sanction for the offence is minimal. |
Of course.... changing one thing a little bit, even with good intentions, changes many other things by a great deal.
I think I will just stick to watching ITFC under a code of rules that seem reasonably straightforward to follow, hopefully seeing us win all 3 points under the lights at Ashton Gate on Wednesday | | | |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 12:35 - Oct 22 with 2282 views | Simonds92 |
| Rugby à quinze fans... on 10:54 - Oct 22 by Darth_Koont |
No, Farrell deserved that. Not to mention being in the ref’s ear and whining the rest of the time too.
There were a few mistakes in the officiating but generally it was very good. Especially considering this was exactly the kind of game which was won and lost on how much you could spoil the opposition’s game on the very edge of the rules (and often over) but still get away with it.
Officiating does decide the game at the top level, but that’s because it is all about these fine margins. And the teams are set up to play for these decisions. |
Ok, so say that was transferred in to football, where we see the refs make terrible decisions in crucial areas of the pitch every week, that would be dreadful wouldnt it? Can you imagine being a player and you see a terrible decision and you can't question it and if you do you receive significant punishment. That's my point, if you give the officials that level of power in football it would be a nightmare. Specifically on the rules of Rugby, i have no idea, its a terrible sport imo. It does seem as though the refs get free reign to interpret what they want though and most decisions are subjective. Lots of Rugby people have said how bad he was throughout the tournament. | | | |
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