| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world 08:25 - Nov 15 with 2299 views | NthQldITFC |
How is it that we there can be so little discussion about accelerating Climate Change and 'minimal progress' in reducing emissions? How? Is it that only a small fraction of people seem to be prepared to engage in discussion now about the biggest and most terrifying problem the world has ever had? It's right on top of us. Or are we just too cowardly to face it?
How can the UN have thought it would be constructive to host three consecutive COPs in rabid oil promoting states? What sort of spastic, 'consensus-based' decision making is that?
How can the Democrats in the US put up such a pathetic showing in the face of the threat of a candidate who's going to employ morons and criminals to occupy some of the most powerful positions on Earth? How?
OK, that's a bit of useless hand-wringing crying out of the way.
How can sensible, decent people who care about their children's future actually start to build a solid foundation for effecting meaningful change? How can a majority come to the realisation that excess and selfishness right now is stealing the future, and that it is possible to fundamentally change how we live in a way that provides a net gain for health and happiness? What sort of tactics would be effective for decent, socially and environmentally responsible people against the suicidal charge of the mid to far right worldwide? |  |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 08:50 - Nov 15 with 2187 views | Guthrum |
On the first point, compared with 30 or even 20 years ago, the debate and attention paid to climate change, plus the drive to find mitigations and solutions, is immense. Further back than that it was barely mentioned outside certain specialised circles. Even if they hate it, everyone is aware of the issue. The struggle has made progress.
But, as I've said before, the climate lobby is on the back foot. They can only ask people to make sacrifices to achieve bare survival. Their opponents can promise wonderful things and simply deny things will be so bad as the science suggests in an as yet unknown future. Which is the more attractive proposition to a populace struggling to get by in the here and now?
Perhaps if there was more emphasis on things like much cheaper energy from renewables (high infrastructure setup, yes, but zero fuel cost), plus jobs generated in manufacturing them, then there might be some traction. |  |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 09:06 - Nov 15 with 2126 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 08:50 - Nov 15 by Guthrum |
On the first point, compared with 30 or even 20 years ago, the debate and attention paid to climate change, plus the drive to find mitigations and solutions, is immense. Further back than that it was barely mentioned outside certain specialised circles. Even if they hate it, everyone is aware of the issue. The struggle has made progress.
But, as I've said before, the climate lobby is on the back foot. They can only ask people to make sacrifices to achieve bare survival. Their opponents can promise wonderful things and simply deny things will be so bad as the science suggests in an as yet unknown future. Which is the more attractive proposition to a populace struggling to get by in the here and now?
Perhaps if there was more emphasis on things like much cheaper energy from renewables (high infrastructure setup, yes, but zero fuel cost), plus jobs generated in manufacturing them, then there might be some traction. |
“yes, but zero fuel cost), plus jobs generated in manufacturing them, then there might be some traction.”
There is still however a high maintenance cost, particularly with offshore wind since by nature it’s not very accessible. Somewhat ironicallyrenewables are also very vulnerable to weather events. Not an argument against them of course and inevitable that we go down that route, but if it were ‘free money’ investors would be falling over themselves to speed up the transition. It needs to be stick as much as carrot in my opinion, and we also need to put a surcharge tax on energy generated fossil fuels. There needs to be much work on energy storage too - we recently had a few days with minimal wind and sun whereby the UK generated just 4pc of its energy from renewables, nuclear also has a part to play if our politicians could look beyond the next election.
On the manufacturing point, we aren’t going to be able to compete on production and raw material costs, so the UK is unlikely to benefit much. That said as protectionism increases globally perhaps we can kick start such industries (probably only with the scale of a continental single market with free trade and no customs, imagine that). |  | | |
| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 09:15 - Nov 15 with 2045 views | reusersfreekicks |
I know it's depressing isn't it.
Trump is like a kid in a sweet shop with his appointments
So many not fit for any public office let alone the jobs he is giving them
RFK for health!!
It's like The Handmaid's Tale coming to reality |  | | |
| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 09:16 - Nov 15 with 2042 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
Like you I despair and don't have a lot of hope. Capitalism and greed are at the root of all the problems, and greed just seems to be part of human nature. Ultimately, it is self destructive, certainly for the species.
I think our best hope is to get mainstream media to be more truthful about the seriousness and imminence of climate change. But they are too frightened of not being politically balanced, and feel they have to give equivalent air time to the greedy corrupt lying climate deniers.
Even if we could change public understanding and behaviour in the UK, it has a negligible impact on the global environment. I believe China has well over 1000 coal powered power stations, and the USA not many fewer, and they are both building more. And still supporting the governments that do it, in the fallacious belief that they will be more prosperous under that regime.
Basically, we're fooked. |  |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 09:16 - Nov 15 with 2032 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Goodness sake, man up or something. I mean what can you do! |  |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 09:25 - Nov 15 with 1999 views | NthQldITFC |
| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 08:50 - Nov 15 by Guthrum |
On the first point, compared with 30 or even 20 years ago, the debate and attention paid to climate change, plus the drive to find mitigations and solutions, is immense. Further back than that it was barely mentioned outside certain specialised circles. Even if they hate it, everyone is aware of the issue. The struggle has made progress.
But, as I've said before, the climate lobby is on the back foot. They can only ask people to make sacrifices to achieve bare survival. Their opponents can promise wonderful things and simply deny things will be so bad as the science suggests in an as yet unknown future. Which is the more attractive proposition to a populace struggling to get by in the here and now?
Perhaps if there was more emphasis on things like much cheaper energy from renewables (high infrastructure setup, yes, but zero fuel cost), plus jobs generated in manufacturing them, then there might be some traction. |
Yes, I agree that there's some progress in technological terms and in awareness on a certain level and even some mitigation, albeit on an effectively minute scale.
I guess what I'm going on about is the same thing as you when you say 'They can only ask people to make sacrifices to achieve bare survival'. I'm getting at 'us', the electorates of the world - saying WE need to drive change, WE need to be talking about the scary issue all the time, WE need to make sacrifices on a sliding scale if WE are going to drive change. People who have little will make no sacrifices, people who have a lot will make big (yet to them effectively insignificant) sacrifices.
Because I absolutely agree with your statement that the opponents of the climate lobby can promise wonderful things, that's where WE need to actually have these discussions and decide that we can tell the ballot box that we see through that and are ready to make life-saving changes. I have to believe that there's a stronger vestigial motive in humans than ME & NOW, and I'm bloody sure that a lot of good people can see that but STILL keep their heads buried in the sand and wait for 'them' to fix things. | |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 09:49 - Nov 15 with 1927 views | nodge_blue |
Your third paragraph is the crux of it. If people cant see what Trump is, and choose to just ignore it anyway, what gumption and desire do you think they really have to affect climate change.
when you consider that we are only talking about reducing emissions anyway, its hard to see how this will be contained. We need to somehow carbon capture on an epic scale.
When we look at our own lives I guess we have to ask, do we use energy excessively and more than we need? I think most people would say they only use what they need, enough to heat a house or drive a car or eat food etc. I have switched in recent years to using an electric bike on all my short trips under 10 miles. Unless it's wet. Ive done that partly cos I enjoy it but also it was a way of reducing my car usage. Ive turned the heating down or reduced the hours. But there comes a point when you're cold. In some respects what more can we do individually?
And it seems hopeless in a drill baby drill period. Although I think they may actually just drop the price of oil rather than increase its demand.
Climate is in danger of being a very inconvenient truth. The absolute first position is that governments of large polluting countries have to want and implement change. |  |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 10:13 - Nov 15 with 1826 views | StokieBlue |
| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 09:49 - Nov 15 by nodge_blue |
Your third paragraph is the crux of it. If people cant see what Trump is, and choose to just ignore it anyway, what gumption and desire do you think they really have to affect climate change.
when you consider that we are only talking about reducing emissions anyway, its hard to see how this will be contained. We need to somehow carbon capture on an epic scale.
When we look at our own lives I guess we have to ask, do we use energy excessively and more than we need? I think most people would say they only use what they need, enough to heat a house or drive a car or eat food etc. I have switched in recent years to using an electric bike on all my short trips under 10 miles. Unless it's wet. Ive done that partly cos I enjoy it but also it was a way of reducing my car usage. Ive turned the heating down or reduced the hours. But there comes a point when you're cold. In some respects what more can we do individually?
And it seems hopeless in a drill baby drill period. Although I think they may actually just drop the price of oil rather than increase its demand.
Climate is in danger of being a very inconvenient truth. The absolute first position is that governments of large polluting countries have to want and implement change. |
The US as a whole isn't going to care about climate change until they actually see tangible effects. Whilst increased hurricane severity is clearly linked to climate change is easy to attempt to dismiss that a week or two after the event.
It's going to be less easy to dismiss when in 2100 Florida looks like this every day.
That map represents ~9% of Florida homes being underwater. If we assume 4 people per home and we just use the current population of Florida (22.6m) then that's ~510,000 homes that will require families to be rehoused somewhere else.
It's only once these realities kick in that we will see meaningful change but it'll likely be too late to reverse by then.
SB |  | | |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 10:21 - Nov 15 with 1786 views | wkj |
| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 10:13 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue |
The US as a whole isn't going to care about climate change until they actually see tangible effects. Whilst increased hurricane severity is clearly linked to climate change is easy to attempt to dismiss that a week or two after the event.
It's going to be less easy to dismiss when in 2100 Florida looks like this every day.
That map represents ~9% of Florida homes being underwater. If we assume 4 people per home and we just use the current population of Florida (22.6m) then that's ~510,000 homes that will require families to be rehoused somewhere else.
It's only once these realities kick in that we will see meaningful change but it'll likely be too late to reverse by then.
SB |
And to think Trump said "Drain the Swamp" yet here we are with policies that will inevitably drown the swamp. |  |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 10:21 - Nov 15 with 1787 views | nodge_blue |
| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 10:13 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue |
The US as a whole isn't going to care about climate change until they actually see tangible effects. Whilst increased hurricane severity is clearly linked to climate change is easy to attempt to dismiss that a week or two after the event.
It's going to be less easy to dismiss when in 2100 Florida looks like this every day.
That map represents ~9% of Florida homes being underwater. If we assume 4 people per home and we just use the current population of Florida (22.6m) then that's ~510,000 homes that will require families to be rehoused somewhere else.
It's only once these realities kick in that we will see meaningful change but it'll likely be too late to reverse by then.
SB |
Yeah I was going to write that nature might be the biggest influencer, but like you say that's after big things have changed.
Even then I wonder if they would really care if half of Florida relocated. I was amazed at the devastation of Katrina and you think how does an area that impacted ever recover and get rebuilt. | |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 10:24 - Nov 15 with 1772 views | Help |
| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 09:16 - Nov 15 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Like you I despair and don't have a lot of hope. Capitalism and greed are at the root of all the problems, and greed just seems to be part of human nature. Ultimately, it is self destructive, certainly for the species.
I think our best hope is to get mainstream media to be more truthful about the seriousness and imminence of climate change. But they are too frightened of not being politically balanced, and feel they have to give equivalent air time to the greedy corrupt lying climate deniers.
Even if we could change public understanding and behaviour in the UK, it has a negligible impact on the global environment. I believe China has well over 1000 coal powered power stations, and the USA not many fewer, and they are both building more. And still supporting the governments that do it, in the fallacious belief that they will be more prosperous under that regime.
Basically, we're fooked. |
Capitalism and greed are at the root of all the problems
There is your answer. Who has more influence on governments and policies. Those with the most money, the best legal team, the biggest businesses. The interest to keep the status quo.
There will be little or no change unless it suits someone to make money from it.
When we all drive electric cars, what do you think will happen to the price of electricity. Of course it will rise because we will all need it because we no longer need petrol and diesel.
Once you are caught in the net, then they squeeze you for more because you cannot get out and need/ rely on that net.
We are led down the garden path they want us to go down, not the path we should go down. |  |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 14:29 - Nov 15 with 1456 views | DJR |
| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 14:23 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue |
Yes, that appears to be the case, although still lot of lost area there. Looking at NOAA they are expecting at least 3 feet of sea level rise by 2100 and up to 7 feet by 2100 if we don't curb emissions and they continue to grow.
That's a worst case situation in reality but their chart for that seems to be this:
What is clear is that it's going to affect large areas of the US and they don't seem to care.
SB |
That's certainly true. |  | | |
| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 14:30 - Nov 15 with 1455 views | Oldsmoker |
"What sort of tactics would be effective for decent, socially and environmentally responsible people against the suicidal charge of the mid to far right worldwide?"
Not a bloody march. I have COPD so I run out of puff after 30 paces. |  |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 14:38 - Nov 15 with 1433 views | Oldsmoker |
In 1985 we had Live Aid.
It was slowly gaining momentum during the day and then they showed that starving kid to the Cars "Who's going to drive you home" song.
Then Bob thumped the table and told people to donate NOW and the spike in donations hit the roof.
Do we really have to rely on some Celeb to galvanise the world into doing something?
The stark undeniable truth is it's us. We are the ones who have to do it.
A Celeb will make it happen for a day - we can make it happen forever.*
* Forever seems to be about 25 years atm. | |
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| I've never felt so depressed about the state of the world on 20:13 - Nov 15 with 1105 views | grow_our_own |
"When an organisation's stated and sole aim is to produce as much profit as possible for its shareholders" from producing solar panels, batteries, and wind turbines, then all good. There's only so much profit the market will allow, hence not "unchecked". Hope is the most powerful human emotion. It can be harnessed to do good. | | | |
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