| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:07 - Jan 13 with 5550 views | WD19 |
The gap between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’ is significant in how people will view this.
You ‘have’ an FT subscription. |  | |  |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:11 - Jan 13 with 5544 views | No9 |
This is potentially a much bigger scandal than the headlines suggest.
In the last 6 months or so, the DfT have awarded contracts to Carrillion worth circa £1.5 Bn despite knowing the company wasn't in sound financial health.
Despite what the shareholders have been handed it is now entirely possible (given Mr Graylings tendency to be fast and loose with public funds) the Taxpayer will step in to complete these works irrespective of costs.
This, & the fact reports show the government (DfT) to be at fault over the S.Rail debacle, the East coast rail fiasco & Abillio's performance, etc. etc. mean the workings of the DfT and the Secretary of State should be investigated in depth.
We are being shafted (again) |  | | |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:20 - Jan 13 with 5533 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:07 - Jan 13 by WD19 |
The gap between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’ is significant in how people will view this.
You ‘have’ an FT subscription. |
I was wondering about that, no, it just let me read the article...is the link no good then ? |  |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:22 - Jan 13 with 5530 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:11 - Jan 13 by No9 |
This is potentially a much bigger scandal than the headlines suggest.
In the last 6 months or so, the DfT have awarded contracts to Carrillion worth circa £1.5 Bn despite knowing the company wasn't in sound financial health.
Despite what the shareholders have been handed it is now entirely possible (given Mr Graylings tendency to be fast and loose with public funds) the Taxpayer will step in to complete these works irrespective of costs.
This, & the fact reports show the government (DfT) to be at fault over the S.Rail debacle, the East coast rail fiasco & Abillio's performance, etc. etc. mean the workings of the DfT and the Secretary of State should be investigated in depth.
We are being shafted (again) |
Too big to fail v too small to succeed ! | |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:28 - Jan 13 with 5515 views | StokieBlue |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:07 - Jan 13 by WD19 |
The gap between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’ is significant in how people will view this.
You ‘have’ an FT subscription. |
Interestingly the gap between the haves and have nots is much smaller than in the 19th century.
Was watching a documentary the other day and Rockafellar had the equivalent of 1trn USD as his fortune and Carneggie has 600bn.
I'm not saying the existing gap is in any way right though.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:36 - Jan 13 with 5509 views | StokieBlue |
That's not what the article says at all.
What it does say is the banks are unwilling to convert debt to equity unless the government can prove that Carillion has a long-term future.
This is actually the correct thing to do and is good for the public who have money or stakes in those banks. There would be two scenarios:
1) The banks refuse the conversion and Carillion defaults on the debt. The banks do take a write-down probably as much as 60% as the recovery value would be somewhere below 40% but they should have also hedged the 60% value with another instrument and thus the hit would be passed on to whoever sold the insurance.
2) The banks accept the switch and then watch as Carillions share price plummets to 0 and they lose all debt repayments, essentially a full write-off of the debt whilst Carillion goes bankrupt. If the government can prove this won't happen the banks will convert which is far more risky for them.
So in this case I don't see what your issue with the banks is, their position seems pretty fair for once.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:36 - Jan 13 with 5507 views | No9 |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:22 - Jan 13 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Too big to fail v too small to succeed ! |
If you take a look at the list of contractors for things like Crossrail & HS2 it is clear most of the contracts have been taken by EU companies. Carrillion look to be the only UK Co who have got any work albiet with partners - which means the partners should cough up.
It also speaks volumes for the parlous state of the UK construction sector. | | | |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:49 - Jan 13 with 5495 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:36 - Jan 13 by StokieBlue |
That's not what the article says at all.
What it does say is the banks are unwilling to convert debt to equity unless the government can prove that Carillion has a long-term future.
This is actually the correct thing to do and is good for the public who have money or stakes in those banks. There would be two scenarios:
1) The banks refuse the conversion and Carillion defaults on the debt. The banks do take a write-down probably as much as 60% as the recovery value would be somewhere below 40% but they should have also hedged the 60% value with another instrument and thus the hit would be passed on to whoever sold the insurance.
2) The banks accept the switch and then watch as Carillions share price plummets to 0 and they lose all debt repayments, essentially a full write-off of the debt whilst Carillion goes bankrupt. If the government can prove this won't happen the banks will convert which is far more risky for them.
So in this case I don't see what your issue with the banks is, their position seems pretty fair for once.
SB |
If Carillion goes under will the banks lose more than if it is propped up by inflated Government contracts and muddles on for a little longer ? Genuine question as I am a gardener not an 'expert' in corporate glass and mirrors !
Isn't it like a mini Iceland where short term pain would be for the best in the long run ? | |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:54 - Jan 13 with 5488 views | BlueBadger |
Isn't the real issue here the problem with outsourcing public services to for-profit private sector groups?
If they don't record a profit(pretty difficult with a lot of public services) then they either withdraw services or require propping up at great expense to the taxpayer. And that's before you get into the expense involved in the administration and running of the process of outsourcing in the first place. |  |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:55 - Jan 13 with 5479 views | No9 |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:36 - Jan 13 by StokieBlue |
That's not what the article says at all.
What it does say is the banks are unwilling to convert debt to equity unless the government can prove that Carillion has a long-term future.
This is actually the correct thing to do and is good for the public who have money or stakes in those banks. There would be two scenarios:
1) The banks refuse the conversion and Carillion defaults on the debt. The banks do take a write-down probably as much as 60% as the recovery value would be somewhere below 40% but they should have also hedged the 60% value with another instrument and thus the hit would be passed on to whoever sold the insurance.
2) The banks accept the switch and then watch as Carillions share price plummets to 0 and they lose all debt repayments, essentially a full write-off of the debt whilst Carillion goes bankrupt. If the government can prove this won't happen the banks will convert which is far more risky for them.
So in this case I don't see what your issue with the banks is, their position seems pretty fair for once.
SB |
The question still remains as to why the DfT have handed Carrillion circa £1.5 Bn in rail contracts since last July, depsite the evidence the company was already in difficulties.
Their partners should have done some investigations relative to them being able to fund their part of the contract(s) so should bare the Carrillion pain NIT the taxpayer | | | |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:57 - Jan 13 with 5477 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:54 - Jan 13 by BlueBadger |
Isn't the real issue here the problem with outsourcing public services to for-profit private sector groups?
If they don't record a profit(pretty difficult with a lot of public services) then they either withdraw services or require propping up at great expense to the taxpayer. And that's before you get into the expense involved in the administration and running of the process of outsourcing in the first place. |
That was pretty much why I mentioned the Tarmac school dinner bit.......bl00dy crazy ! | |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:01 - Jan 13 with 5473 views | BlueBadger |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:57 - Jan 13 by BanksterDebtSlave |
That was pretty much why I mentioned the Tarmac school dinner bit.......bl00dy crazy ! |
NHS contracting is going to be the new PFI. A couple of colleagues of mine are involved on the fringes of CCG commissioning and have strong suspicions that CCGs are being instructed to favour private contractors over NHS contractors even if they are more expensive as it will 'encourage more into the market'.
The Suffolk community nursing services farce with Serco is just a mere hint of what's to come. | |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:02 - Jan 13 with 5471 views | factual_blue |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:01 - Jan 13 by BlueBadger |
NHS contracting is going to be the new PFI. A couple of colleagues of mine are involved on the fringes of CCG commissioning and have strong suspicions that CCGs are being instructed to favour private contractors over NHS contractors even if they are more expensive as it will 'encourage more into the market'.
The Suffolk community nursing services farce with Serco is just a mere hint of what's to come. |
Wasn't a Serco director on the ITFC board back in Sheepy's day? |  |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:04 - Jan 13 with 5468 views | BlueBadger |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:02 - Jan 13 by factual_blue |
Wasn't a Serco director on the ITFC board back in Sheepy's day? |
 New Director Announced 29th Aug 2003 09:28Town have announced that millionaire and lifelong fan Kevin Beeston will join the board. The club had previously revealed that there would be new directors while Lord Ryder and at least one other current board member are set to leave at November's AGM.  0
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:05 - Jan 13 with 5467 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:01 - Jan 13 by BlueBadger |
NHS contracting is going to be the new PFI. A couple of colleagues of mine are involved on the fringes of CCG commissioning and have strong suspicions that CCGs are being instructed to favour private contractors over NHS contractors even if they are more expensive as it will 'encourage more into the market'.
The Suffolk community nursing services farce with Serco is just a mere hint of what's to come. |
Can I interest you in a pitchfork......we are producing them on a cooperative basis? | |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:06 - Jan 13 with 5461 views | factual_blue |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:04 - Jan 13 by BlueBadger |
New Director Announced 29th Aug 2003 09:28Town have announced that millionaire and lifelong fan Kevin Beeston will join the board. The club had previously revealed that there would be new directors while Lord Ryder and at least one other current board member are set to leave at November's AGM. 0
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Indeed. He then set up Beestons Coaches. | |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:17 - Jan 13 with 5445 views | BlueBadger |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:05 - Jan 13 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Can I interest you in a pitchfork......we are producing them on a cooperative basis? |
I'll buy it from Aldi, they're cheaper there and they don't take ages to serve you like they do in the co-op. | |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 11:24 - Jan 13 with 5433 views | BlueBadger |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:55 - Jan 13 by No9 |
The question still remains as to why the DfT have handed Carrillion circa £1.5 Bn in rail contracts since last July, depsite the evidence the company was already in difficulties.
Their partners should have done some investigations relative to them being able to fund their part of the contract(s) so should bare the Carrillion pain NIT the taxpayer |
At a guess, the reason may be 'dogmatic insistence that the Efficient Private Sector Can Do No Wrong despite all the evidence to the contrary with outsourced an privatised public services coupled to utter incompetence'. | |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 13:00 - Jan 13 with 5389 views | StokieBlue |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:49 - Jan 13 by BanksterDebtSlave |
If Carillion goes under will the banks lose more than if it is propped up by inflated Government contracts and muddles on for a little longer ? Genuine question as I am a gardener not an 'expert' in corporate glass and mirrors !
Isn't it like a mini Iceland where short term pain would be for the best in the long run ? |
Do you want a proper response?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 13:04 - Jan 13 with 5384 views | J2BLUE |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 10:28 - Jan 13 by StokieBlue |
Interestingly the gap between the haves and have nots is much smaller than in the 19th century.
Was watching a documentary the other day and Rockafellar had the equivalent of 1trn USD as his fortune and Carneggie has 600bn.
I'm not saying the existing gap is in any way right though.
SB |
Oh you've done it now...
*waits* |  |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 12:38 - Jan 14 with 5278 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 13:00 - Jan 13 by StokieBlue |
Do you want a proper response?
SB |
Yes it is a genuine question. | |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 12:41 - Jan 14 with 5272 views | StokieBlue |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 12:38 - Jan 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Yes it is a genuine question. |
OK I'll try and do one later on today.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 12:54 - Jan 14 with 5256 views | imsureazzure |
In a similar vein, I watched the movie The big short on Netflix last night, very entertaining and a decent insight into the big crash of 2007/2008. |  | | |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 14:39 - Jan 14 with 5207 views | GeoffSentence |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 12:54 - Jan 14 by imsureazzure |
In a similar vein, I watched the movie The big short on Netflix last night, very entertaining and a decent insight into the big crash of 2007/2008. |
Margot Robbie explains it very well. |  |
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| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 22:46 - Jan 14 with 5129 views | StokieBlue |
| I see the banks want some more taxpayers' money...... on 12:41 - Jan 14 by StokieBlue |
OK I'll try and do one later on today.
SB |
No time today unfortunately.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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