| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:17 - Feb 4 with 3761 views | itfcjoe |
Just awful.
This system is ridiculous, and is killing people. |  |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:22 - Feb 4 with 3742 views | BlueBadger |
We are seeing more individuals like this gentleman all the time in hospitals at the moment. We've recently had one who's since deteriorated to the point of needing ITU care care and their family are STILL being told that they need to attend assessments, sign on, etc. |  |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:26 - Feb 4 with 3700 views | jjblue84 |
The welfare state is now so out of control that it’s unable to deal with priority cases like this...it needs major reform! |  | | |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:27 - Feb 4 with 3715 views | Guthrum |
It's the same with benefits, immigration, HMRC and most other services. They operate a "hostile environment" designed entirely to thwart malefactors trying to rip the system off, not running a service to help people in need.
That actually comes down to decades of the media banging on about "benefit scroungers", "illegal immigrants" and "tax dodgers" who, in reality, represent only a tiny proportion of the people trying to use these services, but have been magnified into a phantom problem - largely to justify those who want to spend all their money on themselves rather than paying for a decent society. This despite having benefitted from being part of that society, which was funded by earlier generations. |  |
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| on 10:27 - Feb 4 with 3703 views | _ |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:26 - Feb 4 by jjblue84 |
The welfare state is now so out of control that it’s unable to deal with priority cases like this...it needs major reform! |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:30 - Feb 4 with 3669 views | No9 |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:26 - Feb 4 by jjblue84 |
The welfare state is now so out of control that it’s unable to deal with priority cases like this...it needs major reform! |
Remember the name Ian Duncan Smith? | | | |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:30 - Feb 4 with 3681 views | Guthrum |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:26 - Feb 4 by jjblue84 |
The welfare state is now so out of control that it’s unable to deal with priority cases like this...it needs major reform! |
Yes. It needs to be administered for the benefit of human beings, not simply to exclude as many people and save as much money as possible. If that costs extra, the government will have to raise more revenue, not give it away. | |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:31 - Feb 4 with 3676 views | BlueBadger |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:27 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
It's the same with benefits, immigration, HMRC and most other services. They operate a "hostile environment" designed entirely to thwart malefactors trying to rip the system off, not running a service to help people in need.
That actually comes down to decades of the media banging on about "benefit scroungers", "illegal immigrants" and "tax dodgers" who, in reality, represent only a tiny proportion of the people trying to use these services, but have been magnified into a phantom problem - largely to justify those who want to spend all their money on themselves rather than paying for a decent society. This despite having benefitted from being part of that society, which was funded by earlier generations. |
They then compound this by farming out a lot of these services to private sector companies that are actively incentivised to 'promote efficiency'(bring down costs), again, at the expense of those using the services. Again, mostly very, very vulnerable individuals. | |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:38 - Feb 4 with 3652 views | Guthrum |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:31 - Feb 4 by BlueBadger |
They then compound this by farming out a lot of these services to private sector companies that are actively incentivised to 'promote efficiency'(bring down costs), again, at the expense of those using the services. Again, mostly very, very vulnerable individuals. |
It's daft to even pretend that the private sector can provide a health or benefits system. The cost will always be greater and the level of service lower, because a margin of profit has to be fitted in somewhere. Plus middle and senior private sector salaries are generally higher than in the civil service. And there are no economies of scale in supply and purchasing.
Unless, perhaps, they are run as strictly not-for profit organisations. | |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:41 - Feb 4 with 3617 views | jjblue84 |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:30 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
Yes. It needs to be administered for the benefit of human beings, not simply to exclude as many people and save as much money as possible. If that costs extra, the government will have to raise more revenue, not give it away. |
Reform will both save money and help cases like this. Neither party are willing to do it! | | | |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:43 - Feb 4 with 3631 views | Guthrum |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:41 - Feb 4 by jjblue84 |
Reform will both save money and help cases like this. Neither party are willing to do it! |
What sort of 'reform' which might save money from a system which is already pared to the bone? | |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:44 - Feb 4 with 3600 views | jjblue84 |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:43 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
What sort of 'reform' which might save money from a system which is already pared to the bone? |
By making it more efficient and stop dishing out money that makes it more bloated every year! | | | |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:44 - Feb 4 with 3628 views | BlueBadger |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:38 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
It's daft to even pretend that the private sector can provide a health or benefits system. The cost will always be greater and the level of service lower, because a margin of profit has to be fitted in somewhere. Plus middle and senior private sector salaries are generally higher than in the civil service. And there are no economies of scale in supply and purchasing.
Unless, perhaps, they are run as strictly not-for profit organisations. |
The failings in these services are then also passed on to other, more expensive services. Failings in the probation service end up being the problems of HMP and the police, failings in home care, local hospitals.
Austerity is, quite literally, a false economy. [Post edited 4 Feb 2019 11:13]
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:47 - Feb 4 with 3602 views | Guthrum |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:44 - Feb 4 by jjblue84 |
By making it more efficient and stop dishing out money that makes it more bloated every year! |
How do you propose to make it more efficient? What structures would you change? How is cutting budgets goint to increase efficiency on its own? | |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:47 - Feb 4 with 3600 views | itfcjoe |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:30 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
Yes. It needs to be administered for the benefit of human beings, not simply to exclude as many people and save as much money as possible. If that costs extra, the government will have to raise more revenue, not give it away. |
The people that fiddle it will always find a way to continue to fiddle it.
All tightening up does is stop more of the genuine cases | |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:51 - Feb 4 with 3582 views | Steve_M |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:47 - Feb 4 by itfcjoe |
The people that fiddle it will always find a way to continue to fiddle it.
All tightening up does is stop more of the genuine cases |
It's almost as if the real objective is to force the spending down and not think too hard about the consequences. See also every other aspect of government policy since 2010. |  |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:53 - Feb 4 with 3576 views | Whymarkmariner |
These so called examinations are an absolute farce. The Company responsible for these ridiculous "Testing" get's paid on whether they get a person off benefits. I don't know if these people are actually qualified to make such decision. But in my wife's case the medical profession believe she is unfit for work. The Insurance industry won't provide a Life policy (Only the one's that don't require a medical and they are more expensive and give less cover) as the many problems she has are in their opinion too risky to insure. Why won't they take a professional persons advice. Because it is convenient not to. Millions have been excluded from getting pensions when they should, Women at 60 and Men at 65 because the Government has decided it's too expensive. Elderly people are blamed for all the ills in this Country when census over the years would have given Governments a very good idea as to how many elderly there would be. Convalescent homes were closed in their hundreds and now they wonder why hospital beds are blocked and train stations were shut and now our overcrowded potholed roads can't cope. All this under the backdrop of petty infighting over Brexit. | | | |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:53 - Feb 4 with 3576 views | Darth_Koont |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:17 - Feb 4 by itfcjoe |
Just awful.
This system is ridiculous, and is killing people. |
And the support he's getting is coming from volunteers and local initiatives.
So, society still bears the cost and responsibility. But the government can look the other way. |  |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 11:00 - Feb 4 with 3546 views | Darth_Koont |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:27 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
It's the same with benefits, immigration, HMRC and most other services. They operate a "hostile environment" designed entirely to thwart malefactors trying to rip the system off, not running a service to help people in need.
That actually comes down to decades of the media banging on about "benefit scroungers", "illegal immigrants" and "tax dodgers" who, in reality, represent only a tiny proportion of the people trying to use these services, but have been magnified into a phantom problem - largely to justify those who want to spend all their money on themselves rather than paying for a decent society. This despite having benefitted from being part of that society, which was funded by earlier generations. |
You can judge a country or society by how it treats its poorest and neediest people.
It seems we prefer believing we're a great country to actually being one. It's cheaper for starters and, as you say, suits more selfish needs. | |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 11:02 - Feb 4 with 3535 views | Guthrum |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:44 - Feb 4 by jjblue84 |
By making it more efficient and stop dishing out money that makes it more bloated every year! |
I don't mean to get all heavy jj, but it does make me savage when people talk about "efficiency" like it's a magic wand which suddenly makes everything 10% cheaper.
Savings have to come from somewhere.
If you cut staff numbers, then the levels of service fall, efficiency is reduced, or both. If you cut down on expensive drugs, people die. If you centralise services then the nearest care ends up being ten or twenty miles away and overcrowded.
To reduce administration, you have to cut the reporting workload (no stats), cut down on the number of individual Trusts, centralise purchasing. This will inevitably lead to significant numbers of people losing their jobs. | |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 11:05 - Feb 4 with 3521 views | Guthrum |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:51 - Feb 4 by Steve_M |
It's almost as if the real objective is to force the spending down and not think too hard about the consequences. See also every other aspect of government policy since 2010. |
I'd have said since about 1979. But the present lot have no excuse, plenty of time to try making things better. | |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 11:06 - Feb 4 with 3520 views | CoachRob |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 10:44 - Feb 4 by jjblue84 |
By making it more efficient and stop dishing out money that makes it more bloated every year! |
Where do you think the money the government spends ends up?
Do you believe people on Universal Credit are saving up for a super yacht? |  | | |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 11:09 - Feb 4 with 3503 views | jeera |
This is the firm responsible for these ESA assessments:
https://www.maximusuk.co.uk/
They took over from ATOS when they ran away from their contract after protests grew at their disgraceful approach. ATOS still assess PIP but have changed their name. Their approach is the same.
Although there are reconsideration stages the DWP are obliged to abide by, the first one they undertake themselves is a joke and here is why: "However, in May of this year an FOI request revealed that DWP sets a target for 80% of Mandatory Reconsiderations to uphold the original decision".
The next step is a tribunal.
Many people don't fight because they simply don't feel well enough to stand up for themselves and charities, that were there to advise and offer support to those who have been wronged, have had funding removed by the government and the support no longer exists for most people.
There are thousands of cases where the assessors have simply told bare-faced lies in their reports but they are allowed to run riot and face no consequences. In fact they are encouraged to discredit all claimants by any means possible. The reports are long and deliberately disingenuous, designed to frustrate and hinder. |  |
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| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 11:11 - Feb 4 with 3489 views | jeera |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 11:06 - Feb 4 by CoachRob |
Where do you think the money the government spends ends up?
Do you believe people on Universal Credit are saving up for a super yacht? |
No one, literally no one should reply to that poster, ever.
He posts rubbish on every subject in a deliberate effort to derail the threads and his only intent is to be a nuisance.
A ridiculous troll who should have been banned ages ago. | |
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| on 11:19 - Feb 4 with 3460 views | _ |
| Welcome to Tory Britain... on 11:11 - Feb 4 by jeera |
No one, literally no one should reply to that poster, ever.
He posts rubbish on every subject in a deliberate effort to derail the threads and his only intent is to be a nuisance.
A ridiculous troll who should have been banned ages ago. |
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