| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club 08:41 - Jul 18 with 1399 views | ElderGrizzly |
Parallels to us and wanting Evans to sell. £20m is always banded around as a figure Evans would accept, but even that seems too high right now |  | | |  |
| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 08:51 - Jul 18 with 1344 views | Keno |
But by selling for £20 million doesn’t Evans save about £1billion in tax? |  |
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| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 08:51 - Jul 18 with 1350 views | clive_baker |
I think it would depend largely on how much debt was in the business. I would imagine any prospective buyer would want ME to tidy up the balance sheet and write off that large internal debt. Further to that it’ll also depend on the book value of the assets (players) that exist in the club. I would say £20m for ITFC today, debt free, would be decent value considering Downes, Woolfenden + 1 such as a KVY or Dozzell on a good day could perhaps recoup 50%+ of that. |  |
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| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 08:54 - Jul 18 with 1338 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 08:51 - Jul 18 by clive_baker |
I think it would depend largely on how much debt was in the business. I would imagine any prospective buyer would want ME to tidy up the balance sheet and write off that large internal debt. Further to that it’ll also depend on the book value of the assets (players) that exist in the club. I would say £20m for ITFC today, debt free, would be decent value considering Downes, Woolfenden + 1 such as a KVY or Dozzell on a good day could perhaps recoup 50%+ of that. |
There is also the flip side of knowing that you are buying a business that is very likely to lose between £5 and £10m each year at a conservative estimate. |  |
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| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 09:09 - Jul 18 with 1301 views | Radlett_blue |
| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 08:54 - Jul 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
There is also the flip side of knowing that you are buying a business that is very likely to lose between £5 and £10m each year at a conservative estimate. |
Indeed. I used to think £20m was a reasonable figure for a debt free Town (I'm not going to say, for the umpteenth time, that if Evans does sell, he will write off the debt). Now, we're in the 3rd tier & next season's revenue is very uncertain, while the shadow of a salary cap would also put off some potential buyers. So the figure is now considerably lower, but I doubt Evans would sell for a knock down price unless his business was doing so badly that he needed to recoup a few £m & save the £m he puts into town each year. |  |
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| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 09:11 - Jul 18 with 1291 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 08:54 - Jul 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
There is also the flip side of knowing that you are buying a business that is very likely to lose between £5 and £10m each year at a conservative estimate. |
And that’s always been the issue.
Finding someone willing to write off £20m+ a season to be anywhere near competitive in the Championship, when we lose around £7m before a ball was kicked when we were up in that league. | | | |
| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 11:11 - Jul 18 with 1117 views | clive_baker |
| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 08:54 - Jul 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
There is also the flip side of knowing that you are buying a business that is very likely to lose between £5 and £10m each year at a conservative estimate. |
It has historically, but I don’t think it has to be that way if a new owner wanted to run a more sustainable model. It depends how competitive you want to be, and of course reducing the cost base could impact results but with the fan base we have I think we could run a zero p&l and still be competitive at this level to be honest, especially with the young talent we’ve got in the squad. It would probably require a player sale every summer and to put more reliance on the Dobra’s of this world. We should generate £8m annual revenue at L1 level, there’s a lot of clubs with a cost base lower than that. Admittedly to be competitive in the Championship you need much deeper pockets. | |
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| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 11:15 - Jul 18 with 1098 views | Radlett_blue |
| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 11:11 - Jul 18 by clive_baker |
It has historically, but I don’t think it has to be that way if a new owner wanted to run a more sustainable model. It depends how competitive you want to be, and of course reducing the cost base could impact results but with the fan base we have I think we could run a zero p&l and still be competitive at this level to be honest, especially with the young talent we’ve got in the squad. It would probably require a player sale every summer and to put more reliance on the Dobra’s of this world. We should generate £8m annual revenue at L1 level, there’s a lot of clubs with a cost base lower than that. Admittedly to be competitive in the Championship you need much deeper pockets. |
Your plan is viable as long as being competitive in the 3rd tier of English football is satisfactory. The other issue is that, as a 3rd tier club, your better prospects will inevitably sold for far less money. [Post edited 18 Jul 2020 11:15]
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| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 11:33 - Jul 18 with 1067 views | clive_baker |
| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 11:15 - Jul 18 by Radlett_blue |
Your plan is viable as long as being competitive in the 3rd tier of English football is satisfactory. The other issue is that, as a 3rd tier club, your better prospects will inevitably sold for far less money. [Post edited 18 Jul 2020 11:15]
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Yes, for sure. L1 players command a significantly lower fee and that would be a challenge. 2 good seasons for a mid table L1 side and Dobra is perhaps only worth a couple of mil.
I'm not suggesting I would support such an approach as a fan, as inevitably we would be impacted on the pitch, but purely from a valuation perspective £20m wouldn't feel excessive to me given the net book value of the playing squad. It's feasible that an investor then has a business that's breaking even in L1, and owes them a multiple of 1x revenue.
I can't imagine ME would ever sell the club on those terms, there will be some level of expectation to get back some of the debt I would imagine. | |
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| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 11:50 - Jul 18 with 1029 views | monty_radio |
| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 11:33 - Jul 18 by clive_baker |
Yes, for sure. L1 players command a significantly lower fee and that would be a challenge. 2 good seasons for a mid table L1 side and Dobra is perhaps only worth a couple of mil.
I'm not suggesting I would support such an approach as a fan, as inevitably we would be impacted on the pitch, but purely from a valuation perspective £20m wouldn't feel excessive to me given the net book value of the playing squad. It's feasible that an investor then has a business that's breaking even in L1, and owes them a multiple of 1x revenue.
I can't imagine ME would ever sell the club on those terms, there will be some level of expectation to get back some of the debt I would imagine. |
But surely he would know that any expectation of getting back the nigh-on £100 million was tokenism. Even if he wanted, say, £30 million, which we're agreeing would be still way too much, the vast majority of his financial input would still not be coming back to him. It could only amount to an unrealistic stubbornness which is probably not how he built his empire. |  |
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| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 12:09 - Jul 18 with 1000 views | Radlett_blue |
| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 11:50 - Jul 18 by monty_radio |
But surely he would know that any expectation of getting back the nigh-on £100 million was tokenism. Even if he wanted, say, £30 million, which we're agreeing would be still way too much, the vast majority of his financial input would still not be coming back to him. It could only amount to an unrealistic stubbornness which is probably not how he built his empire. |
I think Evans hasn't sold Town because he hasn't received what he considers a good offer, but also because he can well afford to fund Town to the tune of a few £m each year and because he quite enjoys owning a football club. | |
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| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 13:49 - Jul 18 with 918 views | ElderGrizzly |
And he’s now resigned as Chairman
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| Sunderland owner told to drop price to sell club on 23:33 - Jul 18 with 696 views | BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |  |
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