| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 14:48 - Dec 8 with 1104 views | Eireannach_gorm |
At least Rugby has addressed the matter now and has robust protocols regarding concussion.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12148712/david-luiz-to-miss-arsena
This is a serious issue in all contact sports and I think that the laws of Rugby should be modified to make it less attritional. There should be no tackle above the waist so high tackles would be a thing of the past. |  | |  |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 15:32 - Dec 8 with 1054 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 14:48 - Dec 8 by Eireannach_gorm |
At least Rugby has addressed the matter now and has robust protocols regarding concussion.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12148712/david-luiz-to-miss-arsena
This is a serious issue in all contact sports and I think that the laws of Rugby should be modified to make it less attritional. There should be no tackle above the waist so high tackles would be a thing of the past. |
Agreed. And arguably far worse at the top of the game than at the bottom where you could rightly assume players are less technical.
Problem at the top level and even amongst the better amateurs is that the rugby league tackle where you get your arms in and around the ball or seal it off to prevent an offload/or slow down posession is the absolute norm. It’s getting marginally lower with the new tackle guidelines but still nowhere near enough and nothing like the waist-high tackles that are all about getting your head in the right and safe position.
On another note, the clearouts at rucks are getting wilder than tackles too. That coupled with the increased size, weight and speed of the players probably means that concussions have never been as likely and dangerous as they are now. Even if managing them after the fact is much, much better.
Changing those rules to make players tackle better and cleaner would also help the game open up too. In recent weeks it’s noticeable that the teams are just bashing each other, kicking into space to get territory, and only looking to play through and around the opposition a handful of times a game. The defences are just too good and too brutal nowadays. |  |
| |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 15:59 - Dec 8 with 1000 views | Radlett_blue |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 15:32 - Dec 8 by Darth_Koont |
Agreed. And arguably far worse at the top of the game than at the bottom where you could rightly assume players are less technical.
Problem at the top level and even amongst the better amateurs is that the rugby league tackle where you get your arms in and around the ball or seal it off to prevent an offload/or slow down posession is the absolute norm. It’s getting marginally lower with the new tackle guidelines but still nowhere near enough and nothing like the waist-high tackles that are all about getting your head in the right and safe position.
On another note, the clearouts at rucks are getting wilder than tackles too. That coupled with the increased size, weight and speed of the players probably means that concussions have never been as likely and dangerous as they are now. Even if managing them after the fact is much, much better.
Changing those rules to make players tackle better and cleaner would also help the game open up too. In recent weeks it’s noticeable that the teams are just bashing each other, kicking into space to get territory, and only looking to play through and around the opposition a handful of times a game. The defences are just too good and too brutal nowadays. |
Yes, more teams seem to be playing kick-chase in England because the latest interpretation of the tackle laws means that penalties are far more likely to be given against the team in possession. So territory is king. Makes the game awful to watch but I think much of pro rugby union has been a poor spectacle, largely because having 15 fit players on the pitch plus 8 fresh replacements means space never appears for the backs to exploit. |  |
| |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 17:54 - Dec 8 with 945 views | Radlett_blue |
This may develop somewhat like the NFL class action. I would agree that the rugby authorities have a duty of care to the players, especially as the RFU, for example, had the England players under contract & interesting to read that Thompson's motivation is to try to make rugby safer. I guess the advent of full time professional training has had a major impact. In the same way, some footballers say the issue isn't heading the ball during games, but the accumulation of doing umpteen headers in training every week. | |
| |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 17:56 - Dec 8 with 942 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 15:59 - Dec 8 by Radlett_blue |
Yes, more teams seem to be playing kick-chase in England because the latest interpretation of the tackle laws means that penalties are far more likely to be given against the team in possession. So territory is king. Makes the game awful to watch but I think much of pro rugby union has been a poor spectacle, largely because having 15 fit players on the pitch plus 8 fresh replacements means space never appears for the backs to exploit. |
Eddie Jones (who I think is an otherwise awful person  ) made the point about getting the balance right re: just enough of a contest for the ball at the breakdown. Too much and it’s just bodies on the ground with nothing to take the breath away, and too little and it’s rugby league* and you miss the nuance and drama of two teams at the top of their games technically and tactically.
Right now everything helps the defence and those who want to spoil the game and force mistakes rather than play rugby with ball in hand.
Be interested to hear agentp’s opinion as a proper top-level rugby player but he hasn’t been around for a while it seems.
*I like rugby league although my one and only game was enough. The hits were just brutal. But a bad game of league is better than a bad game of union because the ball has to be moved. A good game of union still feels so much better than a good game of league though. It’s chess vs. checkers really. | |
| |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 18:02 - Dec 8 with 930 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 14:48 - Dec 8 by Eireannach_gorm |
At least Rugby has addressed the matter now and has robust protocols regarding concussion.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12148712/david-luiz-to-miss-arsena
This is a serious issue in all contact sports and I think that the laws of Rugby should be modified to make it less attritional. There should be no tackle above the waist so high tackles would be a thing of the past. |
5 Live had a discussion on this at the weekend from football's perspective. Dion Dublin was pretty honest about how players would ignore/look to get around any protocol unless they were totally taken out of the players' hands. Which is understandable, as they just want to play.
The consensus seemed the be that football has to act to have more stringent protocols in place, led only by medical staff. None of this 'how many fingers, are you ok' stuff. Any hint of concussion the player has to go off and then be assessed ahead of being allowed to play the next match. And allow a concussion sub too.
They were looking to rugby for ideas for best practice. [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 18:04]
|  |
| |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 18:08 - Dec 8 with 921 views | Radlett_blue |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 18:02 - Dec 8 by Swansea_Blue |
5 Live had a discussion on this at the weekend from football's perspective. Dion Dublin was pretty honest about how players would ignore/look to get around any protocol unless they were totally taken out of the players' hands. Which is understandable, as they just want to play.
The consensus seemed the be that football has to act to have more stringent protocols in place, led only by medical staff. None of this 'how many fingers, are you ok' stuff. Any hint of concussion the player has to go off and then be assessed ahead of being allowed to play the next match. And allow a concussion sub too.
They were looking to rugby for ideas for best practice. [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 18:04]
|
I think these stricter protocols make more sense, although inevitable some will see this as an opportunity for abusing the rules for their own advantage. We've already seen players going down with phony head injuries to get a ref to stop the game.
There was a glaring case in a cricket 20/20 game recently where a batsman who appeared to have a leg injury was hit on the helmet, stayed at the crease to hit two sixes & then decided he was concussed so that his team could bring on a concussion substitute to bowl. | |
| |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 18:17 - Dec 8 with 908 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 18:02 - Dec 8 by Swansea_Blue |
5 Live had a discussion on this at the weekend from football's perspective. Dion Dublin was pretty honest about how players would ignore/look to get around any protocol unless they were totally taken out of the players' hands. Which is understandable, as they just want to play.
The consensus seemed the be that football has to act to have more stringent protocols in place, led only by medical staff. None of this 'how many fingers, are you ok' stuff. Any hint of concussion the player has to go off and then be assessed ahead of being allowed to play the next match. And allow a concussion sub too.
They were looking to rugby for ideas for best practice. [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 18:04]
|
Yeah, in rugby, for a fair few years now, it’s been a mandatory medical assessment off the pitch at the first sign of a head injury (blood’s a sign of a superficial rather than concussive injury so not that) Often for more than 5 minutes even if they pass the assessment.
How often do footballers get concussed anyway? I’ve seen it a few times but an HIA in top-level rugby is needed almost every game I’d say. Football perhaps 1 in 10? | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 18:53 - Dec 8 with 864 views | stonojnr |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 18:08 - Dec 8 by Radlett_blue |
I think these stricter protocols make more sense, although inevitable some will see this as an opportunity for abusing the rules for their own advantage. We've already seen players going down with phony head injuries to get a ref to stop the game.
There was a glaring case in a cricket 20/20 game recently where a batsman who appeared to have a leg injury was hit on the helmet, stayed at the crease to hit two sixes & then decided he was concussed so that his team could bring on a concussion substitute to bowl. |
concussion isnt an instant thing though, just like if someone hits you on the arm you dont instantly show a bruise, you can be hit on the head and feel perfectly ok and only start experiencing the concussion symptoms later. Its actually why those instant checks pitch side are often not much use, other than to check if someone is really badly concussed.
so in your cricket example, the ball hit the bat first and then the head, so it wouldnt have been full force blow and he felt ok to carry on,it was the last over, only 4 balls left to face, the umpires didnt call on the physio to assess him, and he only scored 2 fours and 1 more run, but in the interval he was later assessed by the medical team as being concussed.
the only reason it even was of note is because the Aussies moaned about then losing the game, because the substitute India used was a spin bowler,not unreasonably as Jadeja would have been spin bowler for India, and took 3 wickets. but they lost by 11 runs. so Jadejas runs he scored after being hit didnt cost them the game. |  | | |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 22:15 - Dec 8 with 787 views | Radlett_blue |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 18:53 - Dec 8 by stonojnr |
concussion isnt an instant thing though, just like if someone hits you on the arm you dont instantly show a bruise, you can be hit on the head and feel perfectly ok and only start experiencing the concussion symptoms later. Its actually why those instant checks pitch side are often not much use, other than to check if someone is really badly concussed.
so in your cricket example, the ball hit the bat first and then the head, so it wouldnt have been full force blow and he felt ok to carry on,it was the last over, only 4 balls left to face, the umpires didnt call on the physio to assess him, and he only scored 2 fours and 1 more run, but in the interval he was later assessed by the medical team as being concussed.
the only reason it even was of note is because the Aussies moaned about then losing the game, because the substitute India used was a spin bowler,not unreasonably as Jadeja would have been spin bowler for India, and took 3 wickets. but they lost by 11 runs. so Jadejas runs he scored after being hit didnt cost them the game. |
Good points, although I think the reason the Aussies were suspicious was that Jadeja had suffered an injury while running before he was hit so probably wouldn't have been able to bowl anyway. However, the occasional bit of sharp practice is preferable to players being allowed to take risks with concussion. | |
| |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 08:08 - Dec 9 with 717 views | SaleAway |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 15:59 - Dec 8 by Radlett_blue |
Yes, more teams seem to be playing kick-chase in England because the latest interpretation of the tackle laws means that penalties are far more likely to be given against the team in possession. So territory is king. Makes the game awful to watch but I think much of pro rugby union has been a poor spectacle, largely because having 15 fit players on the pitch plus 8 fresh replacements means space never appears for the backs to exploit. |
Biggest issue on this is the 8 substitute rule. Essentially the forwards are too big, because they don't have to carry their weight round for 80 minutes. If you reduced this down, and substitutes returned to being mainly for injury replacements, you'd depower the game instantly, which would help. It would also open up towards the end of the game more, as players tired.
I'm also somewhat sceptical of the claim by these players that the motivation is making it better for younger players. AS mentioned, the rugby authorities are already taking this seriously. The risk is that defending an expensive class action risks removing funding from the game that would be better spent on research, support and grass roots rugby. [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 8:28]
| |
| |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 10:13 - Dec 9 with 661 views | Radlett_blue |
| Rugby's failures on dementia are really coming to light now on 08:08 - Dec 9 by SaleAway |
Biggest issue on this is the 8 substitute rule. Essentially the forwards are too big, because they don't have to carry their weight round for 80 minutes. If you reduced this down, and substitutes returned to being mainly for injury replacements, you'd depower the game instantly, which would help. It would also open up towards the end of the game more, as players tired.
I'm also somewhat sceptical of the claim by these players that the motivation is making it better for younger players. AS mentioned, the rugby authorities are already taking this seriously. The risk is that defending an expensive class action risks removing funding from the game that would be better spent on research, support and grass roots rugby. [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 8:28]
|
Some of the proposals from the plaintiffs are very simple e.g. reduced contact training (Thompson mentions regularly seeing stars during intense scrummaging practice) and also a reduction in the number of substitutes. The latter has seemed obvious for years. As you say, if the forwards knew they were going to have to play 80 minutes, they wouldn't be so big. You also would see the demise of the "20 minuters", veteran bulky players whose role is to come on as a fresh sub & batter into the opposition for the last 20 minutes.
The NFL lawsuit (settled without admitting liability) seemed more about providing $m to pay for medical care for former players. Very hard to change American football to reduce the concussion risk, although while rugby retains tackling the issue won't go away. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
