| The Evans conundrum 07:32 - Feb 17 with 900 views | hype313 |
We have all said it over the years and Joe mentioned it last night when talking about the attractiveness of the job, that any Manager will essentially be left to it and have free reign to do as he wishes.
But isn't this part of the problem, yes it's great that managers are given time, and space to work in, but it's almost a false dichotomy as there is no pressure on them day to day, they can also weild far more power around the place than they really should, this can cause more harm than good, especially if you piss off the club stalwarts.
I'm not proposing an Abramovich style owner by any stretch but a big part of our malaise is the fact that there never seems to be any pressure or will from the top to really be cut throat, drive the club forward, whilst being mediocre and treading water seems to be viewed upon in a positive light.
If I was Evans, going forward with new man in charge, I would be putting far more scrutiny on the management and the staff across the board, this hands off approach is all very well and good, and managers will look on this as a good reason to join, but for me, it just means we continue to bimble along in hope rather than expectation.
If he really wants to maximise his investment, he clearly needs to be far more ruthless than he historically has been, whether he has the appetite or minerals for it is open for debate, but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting different results. [Post edited 17 Feb 2021 7:35]
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| The Evans conundrum on 08:00 - Feb 17 with 807 views | Steve_M |
The words I would add to your post are 'footballing structure'.
Swansea, during their upwardly mobile seasons a decade ago, had a clear one and frequent changes of manager enhanced what they had rather than starting again each time. Brentford outperformed us - and played better football - on a smaller budget in the Championship for several seasons but were prepared to let Warburton go when he wanted more control (and, incidentally, he's been nowhere near as good a manager outside of that structure).
Instead, Evans learnt about football from people who knew how it worked in the 1980s, it's why the first team manager is so dominant. It worked with McCarthy but allowed Keane and Hurst to do enormous damage, the latter in a very short time. As crap as Jewell and now Lambert have been I'm not sure they've done the same sort of damage to the club.
I don't think it's really about pressure on the manager but more on accountability. Evans seems to be engaged when he wants to be, which isn't often enough from the club's perspective. So we have this half-arsed approach that runs through the club, coupled with aggressive cost-cutting from everything except the first team budget and the whole club gets weaker by the season.
So, really, we're back to hoping Evans makes another good appointment (one in five so far....) because it's probably too later for him to do the other stuff here. And that's pretty depressing. |  |
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| The Evans conundrum on 08:05 - Feb 17 with 750 views | hype313 |
| The Evans conundrum on 08:00 - Feb 17 by Steve_M |
The words I would add to your post are 'footballing structure'.
Swansea, during their upwardly mobile seasons a decade ago, had a clear one and frequent changes of manager enhanced what they had rather than starting again each time. Brentford outperformed us - and played better football - on a smaller budget in the Championship for several seasons but were prepared to let Warburton go when he wanted more control (and, incidentally, he's been nowhere near as good a manager outside of that structure).
Instead, Evans learnt about football from people who knew how it worked in the 1980s, it's why the first team manager is so dominant. It worked with McCarthy but allowed Keane and Hurst to do enormous damage, the latter in a very short time. As crap as Jewell and now Lambert have been I'm not sure they've done the same sort of damage to the club.
I don't think it's really about pressure on the manager but more on accountability. Evans seems to be engaged when he wants to be, which isn't often enough from the club's perspective. So we have this half-arsed approach that runs through the club, coupled with aggressive cost-cutting from everything except the first team budget and the whole club gets weaker by the season.
So, really, we're back to hoping Evans makes another good appointment (one in five so far....) because it's probably too later for him to do the other stuff here. And that's pretty depressing. |
Agreed Steve, your 1980s comment rings so true, it's exactly the blueprint he has been using and it's causing so much harm and is extremely detrimental to the club in the long term.
Sad to say, as much as I would like to see wholesale structural changes, I just can't see it, so we face yet another manager leaving (correctly) in the hope that, as you say, will be the lucky one.
Hardly the most enigmatic way to run a football club, and which brings it all back to where the falut lines are, which is the owner. | |
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| The Evans conundrum on 08:13 - Feb 17 with 721 views | BudapestByBlimp |
"I don't think it's really about pressure on the manager but more on accountability. Evans seems to be engaged when he wants to be, which isn't often enough from the club's perspective. So we have this half-arsed approach that runs through the club, coupled with aggressive cost-cutting from everything except the first team budget and the whole club gets weaker by the season".
That's the nub of the problem there. I'm fine with Evans being hands off, he's not a football man but he needs to employ someone who can run a football club, set standards and targets and be there daily to hold staff accountable to those standards. Who knows, maybe this already happens but we've set the benchmark at mid-table League One? |  | | |
| The Evans conundrum on 08:13 - Feb 17 with 721 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
I agree with Joe.
Roman can put pressure on, as he gives his managers huge pots of money to compete, they have very little excuse for not performing. |  |
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| The Evans conundrum on 08:19 - Feb 17 with 661 views | itfcjoe |
| The Evans conundrum on 08:05 - Feb 17 by hype313 |
Agreed Steve, your 1980s comment rings so true, it's exactly the blueprint he has been using and it's causing so much harm and is extremely detrimental to the club in the long term.
Sad to say, as much as I would like to see wholesale structural changes, I just can't see it, so we face yet another manager leaving (correctly) in the hope that, as you say, will be the lucky one.
Hardly the most enigmatic way to run a football club, and which brings it all back to where the falut lines are, which is the owner. |
Any structure is going to be built from the bottom up, when a more modern manager is in charge and is happy to cede power to certain areas. Lambert has been power grabbing from the start and doesn't know what to do with it when he gets it.
He wants to, and has successfully, sidelined people who aren't in his power base |  |
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| The Evans conundrum on 08:21 - Feb 17 with 631 views | haynes_toe1 |
Evans has had how long to create a structure? How much more time does he need? It's unforgiveable. There's a bloody club down the fcking A140 he could even use as a model, it's not difficult.
We're fcked long-term until Evans is out. |  | | |
| The Evans conundrum on 08:21 - Feb 17 with 627 views | ElderGrizzly |
| The Evans conundrum on 08:19 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
Any structure is going to be built from the bottom up, when a more modern manager is in charge and is happy to cede power to certain areas. Lambert has been power grabbing from the start and doesn't know what to do with it when he gets it.
He wants to, and has successfully, sidelined people who aren't in his power base |
And as we saw last night, he has all the power but nothing is his fault.
See Villa for the same scenario. |  | | |
| The Evans conundrum on 08:41 - Feb 17 with 579 views | Guthrum |
| The Evans conundrum on 08:00 - Feb 17 by Steve_M |
The words I would add to your post are 'footballing structure'.
Swansea, during their upwardly mobile seasons a decade ago, had a clear one and frequent changes of manager enhanced what they had rather than starting again each time. Brentford outperformed us - and played better football - on a smaller budget in the Championship for several seasons but were prepared to let Warburton go when he wanted more control (and, incidentally, he's been nowhere near as good a manager outside of that structure).
Instead, Evans learnt about football from people who knew how it worked in the 1980s, it's why the first team manager is so dominant. It worked with McCarthy but allowed Keane and Hurst to do enormous damage, the latter in a very short time. As crap as Jewell and now Lambert have been I'm not sure they've done the same sort of damage to the club.
I don't think it's really about pressure on the manager but more on accountability. Evans seems to be engaged when he wants to be, which isn't often enough from the club's perspective. So we have this half-arsed approach that runs through the club, coupled with aggressive cost-cutting from everything except the first team budget and the whole club gets weaker by the season.
So, really, we're back to hoping Evans makes another good appointment (one in five so far....) because it's probably too later for him to do the other stuff here. And that's pretty depressing. |
'Evans seems to be engaged when he wants to be, which isn't often enough from the club's perspective.' - and yet, he has not put in place any strong personnel/structure to keep things tight while he isn't looking*. Clegg and Milne were quite capable administrators, but they aren't (through knowlege or experience) the men to drive a football club. O'Neill has a bit more football knowlege, but lacks the experience of senior roles.
It's all on the Manager. Which works with an old-school character like McCarthy, but is otherwise just a distraction. And, indeed, Evans may have ended up hiring people for their club-running visions rather than coaching ability.
* This is a common failing among entrepreneurs, who have built their businesses from scratch. Used to being hands on when things were small, they can't let go despite it now being too big for one person to micromanage on their own. "If you want a job doing properly ..." and all that. It takes not just understanding, but also a good deal of nerve to step back and trust others with your creation. |  |
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| The Evans conundrum on 08:43 - Feb 17 with 552 views | jayessess |
| The Evans conundrum on 08:19 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
Any structure is going to be built from the bottom up, when a more modern manager is in charge and is happy to cede power to certain areas. Lambert has been power grabbing from the start and doesn't know what to do with it when he gets it.
He wants to, and has successfully, sidelined people who aren't in his power base |
Yes, exactly this. The only role in the club that realistically gives someone the power and authority to actually change any of these things is the manager. |  |
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| The Evans conundrum on 09:04 - Feb 17 with 499 views | hype313 |
| The Evans conundrum on 08:41 - Feb 17 by Guthrum |
'Evans seems to be engaged when he wants to be, which isn't often enough from the club's perspective.' - and yet, he has not put in place any strong personnel/structure to keep things tight while he isn't looking*. Clegg and Milne were quite capable administrators, but they aren't (through knowlege or experience) the men to drive a football club. O'Neill has a bit more football knowlege, but lacks the experience of senior roles.
It's all on the Manager. Which works with an old-school character like McCarthy, but is otherwise just a distraction. And, indeed, Evans may have ended up hiring people for their club-running visions rather than coaching ability.
* This is a common failing among entrepreneurs, who have built their businesses from scratch. Used to being hands on when things were small, they can't let go despite it now being too big for one person to micromanage on their own. "If you want a job doing properly ..." and all that. It takes not just understanding, but also a good deal of nerve to step back and trust others with your creation. |
Your last statement rings so true, so many organisations fail at this first hurdle due to the owner not willing to cede power, organisations that put trust into a management team thrive.
You only have to look at companies that scale up compared to start up to see who falls down and who goes onto greater things.
Unfortunately we have an owner that is used to working in a 70's/80's workplace environment and this doesn't translate well into the 2020's. | |
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