| quick question..... 10:04 - Sep 13 with 1753 views | blueysbackside |
Let's just say for a minute we got Liam Richardson in when Cook was appointed....
Is there any guarantee that after making 19 signings we'd be in a better position?
It's like saying Morsy will save our season. We just don't know but it appears people are desperate to find a reason for our sorry start when the bleedin obvious is staring them in the face.
We have a team of strangers which is why we're playing like one. I can't remember another team/squad who have gone through such massive changes in such a short space of time.
We're not going up this season and it could be that we finish no better than mid-table with this lot. And then Cook may or may not be sacked.
But this team/squad will take time to form a decent first XI. Surely everyone can see that. |  | | |  |
| quick question..... on 10:19 - Sep 13 with 1407 views | HighgateBlue |
I don't think we can know for sure why we're in such a bad state. Maybe Richardson would have made a difference, maybe not.
All we can do is look at the evidence. Cook's record last year was alarmingly poor. He chose to bin the whole team - that was his call. We've been, remarkably, even worse this year in terms of results. Results are what matter. Nobody at the club has come out and said that we have chosen to bin the whole team and that inevitably means that this season we will be struggling to stay up, or even that we definitely won't go up. I don't think there's anything inevitable about doing as poorly as we have, just because we've changed lots of players. And if there IS something inevitable about it, then it shows what an extreme decision it was by Cook.
Whatever way you slice it, Cook has to take the blame. There are other teams in our division who have had very sizeable squad overhauls, and seem to be doing just fine.
Whether we should give Cook more time or not, I just don't know anymore. I have zero confidence that he can coach our defence into competence. That seems to me to be the biggest deal at the moment. He chose to destroy last year's successful defence, and although I have a great deal of passion for the club, I have no sympathy for Cook as things stand. |  | | |
| quick question..... on 10:21 - Sep 13 with 1392 views | Keno |
To be fair we could have got Peter Cook and Anna Richardson in and not done as badly |  |
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| quick question..... on 10:36 - Sep 13 with 1367 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 10:19 - Sep 13 by HighgateBlue |
I don't think we can know for sure why we're in such a bad state. Maybe Richardson would have made a difference, maybe not.
All we can do is look at the evidence. Cook's record last year was alarmingly poor. He chose to bin the whole team - that was his call. We've been, remarkably, even worse this year in terms of results. Results are what matter. Nobody at the club has come out and said that we have chosen to bin the whole team and that inevitably means that this season we will be struggling to stay up, or even that we definitely won't go up. I don't think there's anything inevitable about doing as poorly as we have, just because we've changed lots of players. And if there IS something inevitable about it, then it shows what an extreme decision it was by Cook.
Whatever way you slice it, Cook has to take the blame. There are other teams in our division who have had very sizeable squad overhauls, and seem to be doing just fine.
Whether we should give Cook more time or not, I just don't know anymore. I have zero confidence that he can coach our defence into competence. That seems to me to be the biggest deal at the moment. He chose to destroy last year's successful defence, and although I have a great deal of passion for the club, I have no sympathy for Cook as things stand. |
I just keep reminding myself that this is entirely a new team. Of that lot who started on Saturday, only KVY played for us last season.He must be our appearnce record holder at the mo in this squad! We can blame Cook....but surely everyone must understand that this process will take time. Players need to know what their team-mates do etc. You form relationships on the pitch. This doesn't happen quickly. We are all just v angry at the mo and rightly so but we must trust the process. Whether that's with this manager I don't know. But what do we expect realistically with a new squad? | | | |
| quick question..... on 10:42 - Sep 13 with 1356 views | itfcjoe |
"I can't remember another team/squad who have gone through such massive changes in such a short space of time."
This is because fans are very guilty of only looking at things through the prism of ITFC - in this league Morecambe (relegation favourites - 4 points ahead of us) had their manager leave after getting promoted, lost all their best players and have rcruited a whole new squad. Of the 27 players they have, 7 were there last season.
It is not unusual for teams in the bottom two tiers to recruit a whole new squad over the close season |  |
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| quick question..... on 10:51 - Sep 13 with 1310 views | 44_not_out |
| quick question..... on 10:42 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
"I can't remember another team/squad who have gone through such massive changes in such a short space of time."
This is because fans are very guilty of only looking at things through the prism of ITFC - in this league Morecambe (relegation favourites - 4 points ahead of us) had their manager leave after getting promoted, lost all their best players and have rcruited a whole new squad. Of the 27 players they have, 7 were there last season.
It is not unusual for teams in the bottom two tiers to recruit a whole new squad over the close season |
Agree, our fans think we’re the only club to have wholesale changes. What makes it all the more disappointing is that we are told we have also bought in top quality support departments.
Many of the other clubs above us are only one step above above non league in terms of resources, yet they are all performing far better than us.
I will not change my opinion, there were far too many changes and defensively we were fairly sound.
I said in a previous post, if Cook could not cope with this alleged ‘Chambers cartel’ (that I do not believe btw), then it is more a reflection on his managerial ability than anything else. | | | |
| quick question..... on 11:10 - Sep 13 with 1260 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 10:42 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
"I can't remember another team/squad who have gone through such massive changes in such a short space of time."
This is because fans are very guilty of only looking at things through the prism of ITFC - in this league Morecambe (relegation favourites - 4 points ahead of us) had their manager leave after getting promoted, lost all their best players and have rcruited a whole new squad. Of the 27 players they have, 7 were there last season.
It is not unusual for teams in the bottom two tiers to recruit a whole new squad over the close season |
Therefore sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But how do we know unless you give the manager time? | | | |
| quick question..... on 11:13 - Sep 13 with 1233 views | IpswichKnight |
| quick question..... on 11:10 - Sep 13 by blueysbackside |
Therefore sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But how do we know unless you give the manager time? |
How much time do you want to give him? We look like we got worse over the 2 week break not better. I pity the centre halves as they are often faced with 4/5 on 2 as the full backs are pushing high and the central midfield has vanished into thin air. | | | |
| quick question..... on 11:15 - Sep 13 with 1217 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 11:13 - Sep 13 by IpswichKnight |
How much time do you want to give him? We look like we got worse over the 2 week break not better. I pity the centre halves as they are often faced with 4/5 on 2 as the full backs are pushing high and the central midfield has vanished into thin air. |
To answer the question, I'd say Xmas at the very least. | | | |
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| quick question..... on 11:15 - Sep 13 with 1215 views | itfcjoe |
| quick question..... on 11:10 - Sep 13 by blueysbackside |
Therefore sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But how do we know unless you give the manager time? |
Manager's have to earn time, not just be given it - and if we don't start winning in the next few games there will be a change.
Will be a bloody nightmare, and see us having to start again - but we can't keep going like this | |
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| quick question..... on 11:17 - Sep 13 with 1195 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 10:51 - Sep 13 by 44_not_out |
Agree, our fans think we’re the only club to have wholesale changes. What makes it all the more disappointing is that we are told we have also bought in top quality support departments.
Many of the other clubs above us are only one step above above non league in terms of resources, yet they are all performing far better than us.
I will not change my opinion, there were far too many changes and defensively we were fairly sound.
I said in a previous post, if Cook could not cope with this alleged ‘Chambers cartel’ (that I do not believe btw), then it is more a reflection on his managerial ability than anything else. |
we're not the only club to make wholesale changes, but i can't remember a club who had just ONE player in their team from the final day of last season - and 10 new team-mates in the same team after just the sixth game of a new season. Even Morecambe had, i think, five players facing us who played in their play off final defeat | | | |
| quick question..... on 11:29 - Sep 13 with 1168 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 11:15 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
Manager's have to earn time, not just be given it - and if we don't start winning in the next few games there will be a change.
Will be a bloody nightmare, and see us having to start again - but we can't keep going like this |
Just interested, Joe......how many games more would you give him | | | |
| quick question..... on 11:36 - Sep 13 with 1148 views | 44_not_out |
| quick question..... on 11:17 - Sep 13 by blueysbackside |
we're not the only club to make wholesale changes, but i can't remember a club who had just ONE player in their team from the final day of last season - and 10 new team-mates in the same team after just the sixth game of a new season. Even Morecambe had, i think, five players facing us who played in their play off final defeat |
Fair point, but there remains this theory that they are getting to know each other. Let’s face it, they have been going into training everyday for a number of weeks now and this raises the question, what have they been doing. It’s like we have to accept that this ‘gelling period’ is unique to football. I like to think that after a couple of weeks into a new job, I’ve got to know my co-workers and have a good grasp of the my role and others. It’s not like they were Rugby players and have just become footballers. On the whole it’s fairly generic in terms of fundamentals of the sport. Sometimes though it is the coaches who make more complicated than it really is. | | | |
| quick question..... on 11:37 - Sep 13 with 1136 views | WD19 |
No, of course it would not be a guarantee.
Similarly signing Ronaldo would provide no guarantees. Doesn't mean he isn't a decent player we would like to have if he was willing to slot into our wage structure though....
....and lots of teams in the 3rd division go through massive changes. Its not all that uncommon in this day and age.
....'mid-table with this lot would' be an absolute and unforgivable disaster. A slow start is excusable, missing the play offs with this level of backing is not. |  | | |
| quick question..... on 11:38 - Sep 13 with 1126 views | itfcjoe |
| quick question..... on 11:29 - Sep 13 by blueysbackside |
Just interested, Joe......how many games more would you give him |
I wouldn't put a number on it- if we haven't won by the end of this month though then I'd make the change.
People will be amazed and say it is too quick, but 9 winless games at the start of the season when we are targetting promotion is just too much - and with what happened last year sometimes you just have to accept things are a bad fit | |
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| quick question..... on 11:43 - Sep 13 with 1090 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 11:36 - Sep 13 by 44_not_out |
Fair point, but there remains this theory that they are getting to know each other. Let’s face it, they have been going into training everyday for a number of weeks now and this raises the question, what have they been doing. It’s like we have to accept that this ‘gelling period’ is unique to football. I like to think that after a couple of weeks into a new job, I’ve got to know my co-workers and have a good grasp of the my role and others. It’s not like they were Rugby players and have just become footballers. On the whole it’s fairly generic in terms of fundamentals of the sport. Sometimes though it is the coaches who make more complicated than it really is. |
I didn’t expect two weeks of training to transform us into a winning machine. Another 3 months of the season might. Some of you in here will have him sacked before he’s even seen his marquee signing play! That will deffo be a first! | | | |
| quick question..... on 12:02 - Sep 13 with 1047 views | 44_not_out |
| quick question..... on 11:43 - Sep 13 by blueysbackside |
I didn’t expect two weeks of training to transform us into a winning machine. Another 3 months of the season might. Some of you in here will have him sacked before he’s even seen his marquee signing play! That will deffo be a first! |
You’ve gone to the extreme.
I’m not implying that after a couple weeks they should be world beaters, let’s face it they are a group of average and in a few cases, slightly above average professional footballers.
However, in the two week period he had with them, it’s got worse. There was no sign of a team coming together on Saturday.
In truth, against Morecambe we were probably the better team and were a bit unlucky not to win. Since then there has been a visual decline.
Now I’m being told one player (Morsey) is going to bring it all together. Personally I think he is clutching already. I’m not saying sack him, but if there is not an improvement very soon (next two games) I think his days are numbered. | | | |
| quick question..... on 12:08 - Sep 13 with 1036 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 11:38 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
I wouldn't put a number on it- if we haven't won by the end of this month though then I'd make the change.
People will be amazed and say it is too quick, but 9 winless games at the start of the season when we are targetting promotion is just too much - and with what happened last year sometimes you just have to accept things are a bad fit |
Wowzers. I AM amazed! so you’d give him one game with his number 1 signing (Morsy) if he hadn’t won anything by then. God knows if Celina will be fit by then too. Can’t help thinking either some of us need a reality check or i am crazy for thinking a manager deserves at least until chrimbo when we have made such unprecedended changes. But perhaps u r right.... and if cook goes than the incumbant might actually get us up this season! | | | |
| quick question..... on 12:10 - Sep 13 with 1020 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 12:02 - Sep 13 by 44_not_out |
You’ve gone to the extreme.
I’m not implying that after a couple weeks they should be world beaters, let’s face it they are a group of average and in a few cases, slightly above average professional footballers.
However, in the two week period he had with them, it’s got worse. There was no sign of a team coming together on Saturday.
In truth, against Morecambe we were probably the better team and were a bit unlucky not to win. Since then there has been a visual decline.
Now I’m being told one player (Morsey) is going to bring it all together. Personally I think he is clutching already. I’m not saying sack him, but if there is not an improvement very soon (next two games) I think his days are numbered. |
We conceded 5. Another new central defensive partnership. New keeper. What was it, 2 more debutants? It needs time. Maybe I’m in a minority. I just can’t have this Pot Noodle approach where we are looking for instant gratification as fans but the reality is it ain’t gonna happen so fast, not after what we’ve done. Forget other clubs. This is a unique situation | | | |
| quick question..... on 12:13 - Sep 13 with 1007 views | itfcjoe |
| quick question..... on 12:10 - Sep 13 by blueysbackside |
We conceded 5. Another new central defensive partnership. New keeper. What was it, 2 more debutants? It needs time. Maybe I’m in a minority. I just can’t have this Pot Noodle approach where we are looking for instant gratification as fans but the reality is it ain’t gonna happen so fast, not after what we’ve done. Forget other clubs. This is a unique situation |
The new central defensive partnership and new keeper were choices made by the manager - though - we could easily have stuck with Woolf and Burgess, given Hladky a chance to get through his run of form.
Giving Edmundson 90 minutes on Tuesday to see how he looked etc.
All the stuff re 19 nw players, changing partnerships etc, are all decisions that Cook has made, none have been forced on him | |
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| quick question..... on 12:15 - Sep 13 with 996 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 11:37 - Sep 13 by WD19 |
No, of course it would not be a guarantee.
Similarly signing Ronaldo would provide no guarantees. Doesn't mean he isn't a decent player we would like to have if he was willing to slot into our wage structure though....
....and lots of teams in the 3rd division go through massive changes. Its not all that uncommon in this day and age.
....'mid-table with this lot would' be an absolute and unforgivable disaster. A slow start is excusable, missing the play offs with this level of backing is not. |
...and lots of teams in the 3rd division go through massive changes. Its not all that uncommon in this day and age.
Name me ONE club apart from us who had one player in their starting Xi after six games who played in their side’s last game of the previous season. And that’s just the startin XI | | | |
| quick question..... on 12:19 - Sep 13 with 969 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 12:13 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
The new central defensive partnership and new keeper were choices made by the manager - though - we could easily have stuck with Woolf and Burgess, given Hladky a chance to get through his run of form.
Giving Edmundson 90 minutes on Tuesday to see how he looked etc.
All the stuff re 19 nw players, changing partnerships etc, are all decisions that Cook has made, none have been forced on him |
Yep..Edmundson has been injured until now. Let’s assume Walters was his top target as keeper and he couldn’t get him until now. Morsy is out and Celina isn’t fit. I’m happy to see what unfolds in the next couple of months. Unprcedented times. Cook in! | | | |
| quick question..... on 12:20 - Sep 13 with 968 views | Radlett_blue |
| quick question..... on 11:38 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
I wouldn't put a number on it- if we haven't won by the end of this month though then I'd make the change.
People will be amazed and say it is too quick, but 9 winless games at the start of the season when we are targetting promotion is just too much - and with what happened last year sometimes you just have to accept things are a bad fit |
It would be a huge call, because we've repeated our past mistake of allowing Cook to bring in a gang of his mates into the various coaching positions. Gamechanger must be tearing their hair out, but apparently they went along with allowing Cook to destroy the squad & start again from scratch. 3 league games left this month, against clubs 12th, 16th & 24th. If Cook can't win any of these games, hard to believe he's the right man, however much he tries to big up the opposition again. |  |
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| quick question..... on 12:21 - Sep 13 with 951 views | jayessess |
As Joe says we're far from the first team to make wholesale changes and there are plenty of managers who've managed to be successful in similar circumstances. Leam Richardson won his 2nd game, against Rotherham (a tougher opponent than any that we've faced so far), with 3 survivors from last season (when Wigan had a much worse team than us). That included a new goalkeeper, 3 new defenders and 2 new centre midfielders. That same day we were losing to Burton with 4 survivors from last season, including 3 out of 4 defenders.
Lots of managers at this level find a way to get results, including when they're missing players, including when players are getting used to a playing style or new team mates, including when the players available to them are flawed. We'll be paying Paul Cook right at the top end of managerial salaries in the division and could realistically poach all but a handful of other L1 coaches if we wanted. Why shouldn't we expect our manager to be able to do things that other managers in the division can? |  |
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| quick question..... on 12:33 - Sep 13 with 903 views | Whataday78 |
We HAVE to stick with Cook, this is his team and let's be honest all areas of the pitch minus the defence is absolutely fine. Morsy will come in and add value to this team, we are currently screaming out for someone that does the dirty part of the game, breaking up play and winning the ball etc.
Personally, I would like to see us playing 4-3-3 with Harper, Evans and Morsy in the middle. Offering a lot more protection to that back four whilst they become familiar with each other. | | | |
| quick question..... on 12:38 - Sep 13 with 883 views | blueysbackside |
| quick question..... on 12:21 - Sep 13 by jayessess |
As Joe says we're far from the first team to make wholesale changes and there are plenty of managers who've managed to be successful in similar circumstances. Leam Richardson won his 2nd game, against Rotherham (a tougher opponent than any that we've faced so far), with 3 survivors from last season (when Wigan had a much worse team than us). That included a new goalkeeper, 3 new defenders and 2 new centre midfielders. That same day we were losing to Burton with 4 survivors from last season, including 3 out of 4 defenders.
Lots of managers at this level find a way to get results, including when they're missing players, including when players are getting used to a playing style or new team mates, including when the players available to them are flawed. We'll be paying Paul Cook right at the top end of managerial salaries in the division and could realistically poach all but a handful of other L1 coaches if we wanted. Why shouldn't we expect our manager to be able to do things that other managers in the division can? |
Maybe cos he hasn’t had a chance to field his strongest XI yet?
Morsy and Celina haven’t played.
Out first choice defensive partneship have played one game together.
Our new keeper has played just once.
Before anyone says ‘yeah, but Cook made these decsions blah blah’
Yes....but give him more time! | | | |
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