| Swansea away in 1982 21:02 - Sep 26 with 3588 views | Illinoisblue |
Hadn’t seen this Eric Gates goal before.
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:22 - Sep 26 with 3459 views | pauldart |
I was right behind watching ball rise towards top corner, great memories. |  | | |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:41 - Sep 26 with 3411 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:22 - Sep 26 by pauldart |
I was right behind watching ball rise towards top corner, great memories. |
I was there too!
We were in a transit and started the journey on Friday. Kempy (RIP) was with us and inside the ground there was a bit of "banter" and shoving back and forth with the police. In the end the police got a bit p1ssed off and went to nick Kempy but he suddenly said "I've lost my shoe and I'm looking for it". The copper said "Ok lad, carry on"
I suppose you had to be there but I still think about that and giggle.
Here's the weird thing though. In my mind the goal was at the other end. |  |
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 22:51 - Sep 26 with 3274 views | bluebudgie |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:41 - Sep 26 by Lord_Lucan |
I was there too!
We were in a transit and started the journey on Friday. Kempy (RIP) was with us and inside the ground there was a bit of "banter" and shoving back and forth with the police. In the end the police got a bit p1ssed off and went to nick Kempy but he suddenly said "I've lost my shoe and I'm looking for it". The copper said "Ok lad, carry on"
I suppose you had to be there but I still think about that and giggle.
Here's the weird thing though. In my mind the goal was at the other end. |
I was with you .Me and Karl Moyse were the drivers . We started from Ipswich on Friday evening, stopped off in London, drove through the night, and got to Swansea very early! We Had a kick around on the beach and some verbals with Swansea fans. Parked up the minibus near the ground,it was from Willhire and had a big map of East Anglia on the back with a sign that said"Willhire country"
When we had finished parking the minibus we asked a copper nearby would the van be safe pointing at the map at the rear, the copper said "Yeah go ahead lads park here the locals are so thick they will think it's a map of Wales!"
Anyway as stated we won and I remember Kempey losing his shoe when a goal was scored and luckily he didn't get nicked. We then started the long journey back and stopped off in Soho on the way back and had a great time Once the minibus had been dropped off I didn't get into bed till 7 am ,,,Happy days !! [Post edited 26 Sep 2024 23:01]
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 23:49 - Sep 26 with 3184 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 22:51 - Sep 26 by bluebudgie |
I was with you .Me and Karl Moyse were the drivers . We started from Ipswich on Friday evening, stopped off in London, drove through the night, and got to Swansea very early! We Had a kick around on the beach and some verbals with Swansea fans. Parked up the minibus near the ground,it was from Willhire and had a big map of East Anglia on the back with a sign that said"Willhire country"
When we had finished parking the minibus we asked a copper nearby would the van be safe pointing at the map at the rear, the copper said "Yeah go ahead lads park here the locals are so thick they will think it's a map of Wales!"
Anyway as stated we won and I remember Kempey losing his shoe when a goal was scored and luckily he didn't get nicked. We then started the long journey back and stopped off in Soho on the way back and had a great time Once the minibus had been dropped off I didn't get into bed till 7 am ,,,Happy days !! [Post edited 26 Sep 2024 23:01]
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Hey Budge
I remember it exactly as you say it, I even remember the coppers mentioning the Willhire van map.
Did we have one or two vans, as I remember Gary whatsisname and Noddy Hearn were there in the pub with us before the game but they never travelled with us usually.
I'm struggling with who was on that trip. Mick Martin?? Dave Bradley?? Wallace??? What was his first name??
I remember also playing football on the beach and I remember someone with a big afro kicking the ball about but who was it? Steve Stretton??? or was it Carly Moyeses mate, what was his name?? I don't think Wallace had an afro then?
What a great day that was though.
Were you at Brighton around the same time when the whole of the Chantry van got nicked? Ha ha.
That was the time I had food poising and nearly fecking died! You bastards!!!
Crazy days.
I was only 16  [Post edited 27 Sep 2024 8:59]
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 00:14 - Sep 27 with 3142 views | gainsboroughblue |
I reckon McKenna would love an Eric Gates.
I'd never seen that goal before either. Presumably from the HTV archives.
That Swansea side of the early 80s was pretty good as well. Finished 6th and actually qualified for Europe without relying on winning the Welsh Cup. I remember seeing them win 3-1 down here. |  |
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 03:30 - Sep 27 with 3023 views | Perublue |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 00:14 - Sep 27 by gainsboroughblue |
I reckon McKenna would love an Eric Gates.
I'd never seen that goal before either. Presumably from the HTV archives.
That Swansea side of the early 80s was pretty good as well. Finished 6th and actually qualified for Europe without relying on winning the Welsh Cup. I remember seeing them win 3-1 down here. |
The following season they went down , I think after briefly being top (I’m probably wrong there) but nonetheless it was that season I first started going to Portman road and their visit was MY 4th or 5th visit…. I remember they were huge .. real units .. more like rugby league players. I was in the Portman terrace just below the executive boxes so close to them as I had been for the previous matches but hadn’t noticed the other teams being so physically big. |  |
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 05:18 - Sep 27 with 2973 views | MK1 |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:22 - Sep 26 by pauldart |
I was right behind watching ball rise towards top corner, great memories. |
Yep, great times and memories from back then. What a side we had. Strange to think all these years later, I am corresponding with a person I was probably stood next to many, many times following our beloved club. |  |
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 13:20 - Sep 27 with 2585 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 09:29 - Sep 27 by eye_tee_F_see |
I was in the van, lucan, budgie |
I'm still sure that Gates' goal was at the other end.
Did he score two? | |
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:48 - Sep 27 with 2408 views | bluebudgie |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 23:49 - Sep 26 by Lord_Lucan |
Hey Budge
I remember it exactly as you say it, I even remember the coppers mentioning the Willhire van map.
Did we have one or two vans, as I remember Gary whatsisname and Noddy Hearn were there in the pub with us before the game but they never travelled with us usually.
I'm struggling with who was on that trip. Mick Martin?? Dave Bradley?? Wallace??? What was his first name??
I remember also playing football on the beach and I remember someone with a big afro kicking the ball about but who was it? Steve Stretton??? or was it Carly Moyeses mate, what was his name?? I don't think Wallace had an afro then?
What a great day that was though.
Were you at Brighton around the same time when the whole of the Chantry van got nicked? Ha ha.
That was the time I had food poising and nearly fecking died! You bastards!!!
Crazy days.
I was only 16 [Post edited 27 Sep 2024 8:59]
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We did take two vans from the Falcon pub and your memory is excellent
Gary Wright was the driver of the other van and Noddy was there along with Mick Martin and Dave Bradley along with Wallace (it was his first name) the guy with the big afro was Ian Wright Carly Moyes's mate but Steve did have a bit of an afro going on if I remember! I seem to remember Enzo and Sladey being there as well
As you said what a great day that was.
As for Brighton away it was towards the end of that season and I drove one minibus and Carl Moyes drove the other. The problem with my minibus is that it had a double seat missing from the rear so two lads had to sit on the floor. (remember this, as it's an important piece of the story!)
Town won the game 1-0 but it all kicked off big time on the park just outside The Goldstone Ground(Brighton's old stadium) We had arranged to meet in a Brighton pub after the game but a couple of lads off Carls minibus got nicked and also a couple of mine too
I drove down to the cop shop and asked how long they would be, and the copper said at least a couple of hours, I told the lads in the pub the news and they were happy to carry on drinking, I was driving so didn't want a drink, so I said I'm off to the chippie anyone wants to join me, Kempey joined me and we drove to the chippie, we ate our fish and chips along the front and then went back to the pub, where the lads who had got nicked were now out and everyone was preparing to leave, .,,,,
I was about to get out of the minibus when Kempey said "That's alright Budgie I'll let them on and close the door" so once all aboard off we went and arranged to head for London for a few a good time,
We, along with the other minibus were almost out of Brighton when I heard police sirens and two police cars overtook our buses we pulled in, and I saw the copper go up to Carls's minibus and then look in the back meanwhile a copper had come up to me I wound down the window and said "can I help you officer?" the copper said they were looking for stolen goods from a pub and Ipswich fans were suspected, I said "there's no stolen goods on here" the copper said" you won't mind if I look in the back then", he asked me to accompany him to the back doors on which he opened them and there in full sight were two lads sitting on pub chairs! the copper said "You're nicked sunshine"
I tried to protest that I didn't know anything about the chairs(I didn't as Kempy had let them on) but I was put in the back of a squad car and along with the minibus and occupants was driven down to the nick by a copper.
The lads who were sitting on the chairs said they didn't take them, so we were kept in the cells until we were told that until the culprits own up, we were not going anywhere until the matter was cleared up and if need be we would be kept overnight. It had been a hot day and it was a muggy night and the smell of feet was overbearing as you have to take your shoes off before entering the cells it had been a long day and tempers were wearing thin, on hearing that we could be kept in overnight the lads involved had a bit of a stern talking too and a bit of gentle!! persuasion to own up.
So we didn't get to leave Brighton until gone midnight, the other minibus stopped off in London and had a good time by all accounts, we, on the other hand, didn't get back unit around 5 and I was thoroughly p1ssed off
The fine was so steep for the lads that took the chairs, that they could have brought a luxury three-piece suite! with the amount they were fined!
Great memories from halcyon days! | | | |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 08:03 - Sep 28 with 2253 views | Bramidan |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:48 - Sep 27 by bluebudgie |
We did take two vans from the Falcon pub and your memory is excellent
Gary Wright was the driver of the other van and Noddy was there along with Mick Martin and Dave Bradley along with Wallace (it was his first name) the guy with the big afro was Ian Wright Carly Moyes's mate but Steve did have a bit of an afro going on if I remember! I seem to remember Enzo and Sladey being there as well
As you said what a great day that was.
As for Brighton away it was towards the end of that season and I drove one minibus and Carl Moyes drove the other. The problem with my minibus is that it had a double seat missing from the rear so two lads had to sit on the floor. (remember this, as it's an important piece of the story!)
Town won the game 1-0 but it all kicked off big time on the park just outside The Goldstone Ground(Brighton's old stadium) We had arranged to meet in a Brighton pub after the game but a couple of lads off Carls minibus got nicked and also a couple of mine too
I drove down to the cop shop and asked how long they would be, and the copper said at least a couple of hours, I told the lads in the pub the news and they were happy to carry on drinking, I was driving so didn't want a drink, so I said I'm off to the chippie anyone wants to join me, Kempey joined me and we drove to the chippie, we ate our fish and chips along the front and then went back to the pub, where the lads who had got nicked were now out and everyone was preparing to leave, .,,,,
I was about to get out of the minibus when Kempey said "That's alright Budgie I'll let them on and close the door" so once all aboard off we went and arranged to head for London for a few a good time,
We, along with the other minibus were almost out of Brighton when I heard police sirens and two police cars overtook our buses we pulled in, and I saw the copper go up to Carls's minibus and then look in the back meanwhile a copper had come up to me I wound down the window and said "can I help you officer?" the copper said they were looking for stolen goods from a pub and Ipswich fans were suspected, I said "there's no stolen goods on here" the copper said" you won't mind if I look in the back then", he asked me to accompany him to the back doors on which he opened them and there in full sight were two lads sitting on pub chairs! the copper said "You're nicked sunshine"
I tried to protest that I didn't know anything about the chairs(I didn't as Kempy had let them on) but I was put in the back of a squad car and along with the minibus and occupants was driven down to the nick by a copper.
The lads who were sitting on the chairs said they didn't take them, so we were kept in the cells until we were told that until the culprits own up, we were not going anywhere until the matter was cleared up and if need be we would be kept overnight. It had been a hot day and it was a muggy night and the smell of feet was overbearing as you have to take your shoes off before entering the cells it had been a long day and tempers were wearing thin, on hearing that we could be kept in overnight the lads involved had a bit of a stern talking too and a bit of gentle!! persuasion to own up.
So we didn't get to leave Brighton until gone midnight, the other minibus stopped off in London and had a good time by all accounts, we, on the other hand, didn't get back unit around 5 and I was thoroughly p1ssed off
The fine was so steep for the lads that took the chairs, that they could have brought a luxury three-piece suite! with the amount they were fined!
Great memories from halcyon days! |
What a great story.
Love it. | | | |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 11:51 - Sep 28 with 2154 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:48 - Sep 27 by bluebudgie |
We did take two vans from the Falcon pub and your memory is excellent
Gary Wright was the driver of the other van and Noddy was there along with Mick Martin and Dave Bradley along with Wallace (it was his first name) the guy with the big afro was Ian Wright Carly Moyes's mate but Steve did have a bit of an afro going on if I remember! I seem to remember Enzo and Sladey being there as well
As you said what a great day that was.
As for Brighton away it was towards the end of that season and I drove one minibus and Carl Moyes drove the other. The problem with my minibus is that it had a double seat missing from the rear so two lads had to sit on the floor. (remember this, as it's an important piece of the story!)
Town won the game 1-0 but it all kicked off big time on the park just outside The Goldstone Ground(Brighton's old stadium) We had arranged to meet in a Brighton pub after the game but a couple of lads off Carls minibus got nicked and also a couple of mine too
I drove down to the cop shop and asked how long they would be, and the copper said at least a couple of hours, I told the lads in the pub the news and they were happy to carry on drinking, I was driving so didn't want a drink, so I said I'm off to the chippie anyone wants to join me, Kempey joined me and we drove to the chippie, we ate our fish and chips along the front and then went back to the pub, where the lads who had got nicked were now out and everyone was preparing to leave, .,,,,
I was about to get out of the minibus when Kempey said "That's alright Budgie I'll let them on and close the door" so once all aboard off we went and arranged to head for London for a few a good time,
We, along with the other minibus were almost out of Brighton when I heard police sirens and two police cars overtook our buses we pulled in, and I saw the copper go up to Carls's minibus and then look in the back meanwhile a copper had come up to me I wound down the window and said "can I help you officer?" the copper said they were looking for stolen goods from a pub and Ipswich fans were suspected, I said "there's no stolen goods on here" the copper said" you won't mind if I look in the back then", he asked me to accompany him to the back doors on which he opened them and there in full sight were two lads sitting on pub chairs! the copper said "You're nicked sunshine"
I tried to protest that I didn't know anything about the chairs(I didn't as Kempy had let them on) but I was put in the back of a squad car and along with the minibus and occupants was driven down to the nick by a copper.
The lads who were sitting on the chairs said they didn't take them, so we were kept in the cells until we were told that until the culprits own up, we were not going anywhere until the matter was cleared up and if need be we would be kept overnight. It had been a hot day and it was a muggy night and the smell of feet was overbearing as you have to take your shoes off before entering the cells it had been a long day and tempers were wearing thin, on hearing that we could be kept in overnight the lads involved had a bit of a stern talking too and a bit of gentle!! persuasion to own up.
So we didn't get to leave Brighton until gone midnight, the other minibus stopped off in London and had a good time by all accounts, we, on the other hand, didn't get back unit around 5 and I was thoroughly p1ssed off
The fine was so steep for the lads that took the chairs, that they could have brought a luxury three-piece suite! with the amount they were fined!
Great memories from halcyon days! |
Re the Brighton trip, we started off in the home side stand and then got marched out.
I think I must have been in Carly's van because no way was I in Brighton until midnight. Pretty sure we went to Soho on the way back in one of those old sleazy clip joints - and had to curl up in the corner as I had food poisoning kicking in after eating jellied eels, sold from one one of those pub vendors.
Couple of other trips spring to mind with you driving...........
Luton away when we went had eight of us in a Cortina estate, I think that was the game Butcher couldn't stop bleeding and had a blood transfusion. As I was the youngest I ended up in the boot section along with Geoff Hay and Steve Tyrell. I think we ended up in The Still & Sugarloaf on the way back.
Then there was that Norwich game............
We had two vans if you remember, I know I was in yours. I think the other one left a bit earlier as they had sprayed the "Welcome to Norwich, a fine City" sign by the time we went past it.
I think that was a rare all ticket game and Abdul had got about 30 tickets and we met in the Maid Marion where there was a load of other minibuses. All the tickets were for the River end.
After the game we all had a few drinks and some wanted to go back to Ipswich and some wanted to stay in Norwich. We had a "hands up" and those who wanted to get back went in your van and those who wanted to stay got in the other van. The whole van ended up getting arrested and they all spent 7 months on remand in Norwich prison - missing the Amsterdam final. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 11:55]
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 19:07 - Sep 28 with 1983 views | bluebudgie |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 11:51 - Sep 28 by Lord_Lucan |
Re the Brighton trip, we started off in the home side stand and then got marched out.
I think I must have been in Carly's van because no way was I in Brighton until midnight. Pretty sure we went to Soho on the way back in one of those old sleazy clip joints - and had to curl up in the corner as I had food poisoning kicking in after eating jellied eels, sold from one one of those pub vendors.
Couple of other trips spring to mind with you driving...........
Luton away when we went had eight of us in a Cortina estate, I think that was the game Butcher couldn't stop bleeding and had a blood transfusion. As I was the youngest I ended up in the boot section along with Geoff Hay and Steve Tyrell. I think we ended up in The Still & Sugarloaf on the way back.
Then there was that Norwich game............
We had two vans if you remember, I know I was in yours. I think the other one left a bit earlier as they had sprayed the "Welcome to Norwich, a fine City" sign by the time we went past it.
I think that was a rare all ticket game and Abdul had got about 30 tickets and we met in the Maid Marion where there was a load of other minibuses. All the tickets were for the River end.
After the game we all had a few drinks and some wanted to go back to Ipswich and some wanted to stay in Norwich. We had a "hands up" and those who wanted to get back went in your van and those who wanted to stay got in the other van. The whole van ended up getting arrested and they all spent 7 months on remand in Norwich prison - missing the Amsterdam final. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 11:55]
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Yes luckily for you you and Kempey travelled back in Carls's van as when everyone was coming out of the pub it was free for all, although you wouldn't have suffered food poisoning !!
The Norwich game was on Easter Monday and we were going for the title with Aston Villa, We had already lost 2-0 to Arsenal on Saturday so Town needed to get a win at Norwich. Unfortunately, injuries had caught up with Town due to the number of games they played that season, and a patchwork team was put out that day .
Norwich won 1-0 despite Town missing loads of chances so effectively and were out of the running for the title. It's never nice losing to Norwich but that day really hurt and I just wanted to get back to Ipswich to drown my sorrows.
As you said some lads from both minibuses wanted to go back to Norwich and some lads wanted to go back to Ipswich (you included) It turned out to be one of the best decisions I ever made as it turned out to be our "sliding doors" moment, in our life as the other minibus got into an altercation in Norwich and most were arrested and those that were spent seven months on remand in Norwich nick.
The law came down hard on them because Margaret Thatcher had instructed that anyone who was arrested about football was to be dealt with severely.
Luton was quiet day too as it was like The Alamo in the first pub we went into with Luton fans rushing the pub in the hope of displacing us It was an FA Cup game and Town won 3-0 and it turned out quite tasty after the game on our way back to the car.
As you said we stopped off on the way back and if memory serves me right that was quite eventful too, but that's another story.
We could write a book on those days perhaps we should !! | | | |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 20:37 - Sep 28 with 1862 views | Bramidan |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 19:07 - Sep 28 by bluebudgie |
Yes luckily for you you and Kempey travelled back in Carls's van as when everyone was coming out of the pub it was free for all, although you wouldn't have suffered food poisoning !!
The Norwich game was on Easter Monday and we were going for the title with Aston Villa, We had already lost 2-0 to Arsenal on Saturday so Town needed to get a win at Norwich. Unfortunately, injuries had caught up with Town due to the number of games they played that season, and a patchwork team was put out that day .
Norwich won 1-0 despite Town missing loads of chances so effectively and were out of the running for the title. It's never nice losing to Norwich but that day really hurt and I just wanted to get back to Ipswich to drown my sorrows.
As you said some lads from both minibuses wanted to go back to Norwich and some lads wanted to go back to Ipswich (you included) It turned out to be one of the best decisions I ever made as it turned out to be our "sliding doors" moment, in our life as the other minibus got into an altercation in Norwich and most were arrested and those that were spent seven months on remand in Norwich nick.
The law came down hard on them because Margaret Thatcher had instructed that anyone who was arrested about football was to be dealt with severely.
Luton was quiet day too as it was like The Alamo in the first pub we went into with Luton fans rushing the pub in the hope of displacing us It was an FA Cup game and Town won 3-0 and it turned out quite tasty after the game on our way back to the car.
As you said we stopped off on the way back and if memory serves me right that was quite eventful too, but that's another story.
We could write a book on those days perhaps we should !! |
Trouble is mate, all those shenanigans are not acceptable to modern football fans.
They can’t imagine what it was like in those days to be part of the North Stand.
Different times but it was a hell of a time for those who remember.
Of course we are all old farts now! | | | |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:01 - Sep 28 with 1820 views | BarcaBlue |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 20:37 - Sep 28 by Bramidan |
Trouble is mate, all those shenanigans are not acceptable to modern football fans.
They can’t imagine what it was like in those days to be part of the North Stand.
Different times but it was a hell of a time for those who remember.
Of course we are all old farts now! |
I was at that Norwich match, went to quite a few away games that season as a 15 / 16 year old, and all home games either in Churchmans or the North Stand. There's a strong sense of nostalgia for the time, the team, Sir Bobby but none at all for the violence. |  | | |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:41 - Sep 28 with 1740 views | Radlett_blue |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 03:30 - Sep 27 by Perublue |
The following season they went down , I think after briefly being top (I’m probably wrong there) but nonetheless it was that season I first started going to Portman road and their visit was MY 4th or 5th visit…. I remember they were huge .. real units .. more like rugby league players. I was in the Portman terrace just below the executive boxes so close to them as I had been for the previous matches but hadn’t noticed the other teams being so physically big. |
Swansea were relegated in 1982-83, although they won the Welsh Cup for the 3rd consecutive year & qualified for the Cup Winners' Cup again. |  |
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:46 - Sep 28 with 1731 views | Radlett_blue |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 00:14 - Sep 27 by gainsboroughblue |
I reckon McKenna would love an Eric Gates.
I'd never seen that goal before either. Presumably from the HTV archives.
That Swansea side of the early 80s was pretty good as well. Finished 6th and actually qualified for Europe without relying on winning the Welsh Cup. I remember seeing them win 3-1 down here. |
No, Swansea again entered the Cup Winners' Cup as Welsh Cup winners, despite finishing 6th in the League as the Cup Winners' Cup took precedence over the UEFA Cup. Swansea did top the League at one stage but they lost 5 of their last 6 games. | |
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 22:04 - Sep 28 with 1682 views | Trequartista |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 21:46 - Sep 28 by Radlett_blue |
No, Swansea again entered the Cup Winners' Cup as Welsh Cup winners, despite finishing 6th in the League as the Cup Winners' Cup took precedence over the UEFA Cup. Swansea did top the League at one stage but they lost 5 of their last 6 games. |
That was a crazy season (81/82) at the top. I remember the teletext league table with Southampton, Swansea, Ipswich, Liverpool and Man Utd all in the race. Swansea were top in late March but ended 18 points adrift so as you pointed out, that was some slump at the end. |  |
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| Swansea away in 1982 on 22:50 - Sep 28 with 1630 views | Perublue |
| Swansea away in 1982 on 22:04 - Sep 28 by Trequartista |
That was a crazy season (81/82) at the top. I remember the teletext league table with Southampton, Swansea, Ipswich, Liverpool and Man Utd all in the race. Swansea were top in late March but ended 18 points adrift so as you pointed out, that was some slump at the end. |
Was there any reason for the slump ?
I do wonder if Swansea and Cardiff would ever consider joining the Welsh league if they ended up dropping further down the pyramid as they are making the Euro cups bigger you'd presume they would make more from the Euro games than a whole season of 3rd or 4th divison qualifying EVERY season for Europe. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 22:51]
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