| A Guardian read for you all! 07:46 - Nov 18 with 9638 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Contains some good points and one liners....
'If you are the Democrats and all you have to counter this powerful vision is a lot of nice values and dancing “joy” but no material proposal to radically change people’s lives, you haven’t even brought a knife to a gunfight – you’ve brought Oprah Winfrey.'
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/18/donald-trump-victory-liber
'But the truth is that, all over the world, the old order is gone and the new one is bewildering. People feel trapped and want a sense of release, a promise of a dramatically different future, or just a future. Even if that sense of freedom comes vicariously from an autocrat who has flexed and snapped the chains of the system. And they want to feel as if they are part of something bigger and stronger as they get lonelier and weaker and their worlds fracture and atomise by the day.' |  |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 07:54 - Nov 18 with 5603 views | Lord_Lucan |
Morning Stevie.
They still don't get it. Perhaps they never will.
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:07 - Nov 18 with 5535 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 07:54 - Nov 18 by Lord_Lucan |
Morning Stevie.
They still don't get it. Perhaps they never will.
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Only @narcho syndicalism can save us now Allan! | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:12 - Nov 18 with 5490 views | nodge_blue |
That’s been my feeling for why this swing to the right and tough guys and girls has happened.
When people feel vulnerable they feel weak. So let’s get a tough hard talking person in to make us feel secure and we can abdicate our own individual worries and let them carry the can and sort it out.
The trouble is we could end up losing a sense of kindness and compassion along the way and develop more selfish outlooks. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t make for a long term healthy society. And once you start sipping this medicine you potentially unleash something a whole lot nastier than maybe intended. You see that in the US. Trump is much more brazen now than he was and just doesn’t care.
I do think Britain will have to toughen up in some areas. We can’t look militarily weak now. You have to show that a tolerant and open society can still be a strong and effective one. A big challenge for Starmer and one I think he must grasp is the illegal immigration. Stopping that would take a whole lot of wind out of the right wing sails. |  |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:22 - Nov 18 with 5434 views | Churchman |
An interesting thought provoking article with a number of strands to it. Well worth a read. |  | | |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:30 - Nov 18 with 5401 views | thebooks |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:12 - Nov 18 by nodge_blue |
That’s been my feeling for why this swing to the right and tough guys and girls has happened.
When people feel vulnerable they feel weak. So let’s get a tough hard talking person in to make us feel secure and we can abdicate our own individual worries and let them carry the can and sort it out.
The trouble is we could end up losing a sense of kindness and compassion along the way and develop more selfish outlooks. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t make for a long term healthy society. And once you start sipping this medicine you potentially unleash something a whole lot nastier than maybe intended. You see that in the US. Trump is much more brazen now than he was and just doesn’t care.
I do think Britain will have to toughen up in some areas. We can’t look militarily weak now. You have to show that a tolerant and open society can still be a strong and effective one. A big challenge for Starmer and one I think he must grasp is the illegal immigration. Stopping that would take a whole lot of wind out of the right wing sails. |
Agree with most of that but for one key thing.
You cannot out-racist the far right. The only alternative is to address those feelings of vulnerability and weakness by making day-to-day life better.
Oh yeah, most immigration isn’t “illegal”. |  | | |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:39 - Nov 18 with 5359 views | Guthrum |
To summarise: The beneficiaries of the current system will lie to protect their position by promising easy solutions. Liberals need to develop their own even easier solution which will appeal to the electorate more and also, magically, actually work. This solution has to be so good and so realistic it can outmatch the marvellous lies of the other lot. Simple, really. |  |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:39 - Nov 18 with 5334 views | DJR |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:07 - Nov 18 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Only @narcho syndicalism can save us now Allan! |
If it's good enough for Noam Chomsky there must be something in it! [Post edited 18 Nov 2024 8:40]
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:46 - Nov 18 with 5298 views | Guthrum |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:12 - Nov 18 by nodge_blue |
That’s been my feeling for why this swing to the right and tough guys and girls has happened.
When people feel vulnerable they feel weak. So let’s get a tough hard talking person in to make us feel secure and we can abdicate our own individual worries and let them carry the can and sort it out.
The trouble is we could end up losing a sense of kindness and compassion along the way and develop more selfish outlooks. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t make for a long term healthy society. And once you start sipping this medicine you potentially unleash something a whole lot nastier than maybe intended. You see that in the US. Trump is much more brazen now than he was and just doesn’t care.
I do think Britain will have to toughen up in some areas. We can’t look militarily weak now. You have to show that a tolerant and open society can still be a strong and effective one. A big challenge for Starmer and one I think he must grasp is the illegal immigration. Stopping that would take a whole lot of wind out of the right wing sails. |
But how do we stop illegal migration? Especially in a situation where cooperation with neighbouring countries on the issue has been fractured and any attempt to repair that break is seen as betrayal? | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:46 - Nov 18 with 5295 views | nodge_blue |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:30 - Nov 18 by thebooks |
Agree with most of that but for one key thing.
You cannot out-racist the far right. The only alternative is to address those feelings of vulnerability and weakness by making day-to-day life better.
Oh yeah, most immigration isn’t “illegal”. |
Indeed but if you stop the illegal immigration people then feel in control. | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:06 - Nov 18 with 5259 views | nodge_blue |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:46 - Nov 18 by Guthrum |
But how do we stop illegal migration? Especially in a situation where cooperation with neighbouring countries on the issue has been fractured and any attempt to repair that break is seen as betrayal? |
Some of that fracturing is being repaired. Macron clearly likes Starmer. One sense of strength can come from better ties with France and Germany and a sense of having each others backs. [Post edited 18 Nov 2024 9:06]
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:09 - Nov 18 with 5239 views | Guthrum |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:06 - Nov 18 by nodge_blue |
Some of that fracturing is being repaired. Macron clearly likes Starmer. One sense of strength can come from better ties with France and Germany and a sense of having each others backs. [Post edited 18 Nov 2024 9:06]
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Absolutely. But it's going to be a very slow process, as anything too obvious will stir up a storm. | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:12 - Nov 18 with 5214 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:30 - Nov 18 by thebooks |
Agree with most of that but for one key thing.
You cannot out-racist the far right. The only alternative is to address those feelings of vulnerability and weakness by making day-to-day life better.
Oh yeah, most immigration isn’t “illegal”. |
Instead of which Reeves is going to deregulate the finance sector and Starmer is cosying up to China because....well growth or something. Now how has that been going up to now? Not sure that more 'globalisation' is the answer to the global malaise. | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:14 - Nov 18 with 5201 views | Pinewoodblue |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:06 - Nov 18 by nodge_blue |
Some of that fracturing is being repaired. Macron clearly likes Starmer. One sense of strength can come from better ties with France and Germany and a sense of having each others backs. [Post edited 18 Nov 2024 9:06]
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Macron can’t stand again, and anyone’s guess what will happen early next year when Germany has another election. |  |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:18 - Nov 18 with 5166 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:39 - Nov 18 by DJR |
If it's good enough for Noam Chomsky there must be something in it! [Post edited 18 Nov 2024 8:40]
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It's time to give the grown ups a go DJR. | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:18 - Nov 18 with 5161 views | nodge_blue |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:12 - Nov 18 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Instead of which Reeves is going to deregulate the finance sector and Starmer is cosying up to China because....well growth or something. Now how has that been going up to now? Not sure that more 'globalisation' is the answer to the global malaise. |
Well there’s the rub Bankster.
But what have we done in the past 5 years with China other than stand at the sidelines and say “you’ve been a very naughty boy”.
There will be some nose holding solutions to keep a world order that doesn’t see us escalate towards WW3. | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:21 - Nov 18 with 5144 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 08:39 - Nov 18 by Guthrum |
To summarise: The beneficiaries of the current system will lie to protect their position by promising easy solutions. Liberals need to develop their own even easier solution which will appeal to the electorate more and also, magically, actually work. This solution has to be so good and so realistic it can outmatch the marvellous lies of the other lot. Simple, really. |
Perhaps the Liberals just have to stop working for the same big business paymasters as Trump and co and actually offer some genuine left wing redistributive alternatives. | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:23 - Nov 18 with 5128 views | nodge_blue |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:21 - Nov 18 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Perhaps the Liberals just have to stop working for the same big business paymasters as Trump and co and actually offer some genuine left wing redistributive alternatives. |
Sounds like Oprah Winfrey coming to a gun fight. | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:24 - Nov 18 with 5112 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:14 - Nov 18 by Pinewoodblue |
Macron can’t stand again, and anyone’s guess what will happen early next year when Germany has another election. |
Germany and France will go Right too. | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:24 - Nov 18 with 5108 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:21 - Nov 18 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Perhaps the Liberals just have to stop working for the same big business paymasters as Trump and co and actually offer some genuine left wing redistributive alternatives. |
Most big businesses are anti-trump. Firstly they value stability and predictability over marginal tax cut gains, and any financial benefit of tax cuts will be more than lost with Trump’s trade wars. |  | | |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:29 - Nov 18 with 5088 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:24 - Nov 18 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Most big businesses are anti-trump. Firstly they value stability and predictability over marginal tax cut gains, and any financial benefit of tax cuts will be more than lost with Trump’s trade wars. |
Yeah they are so going to hate environmental and financial deregulation. Will they care if the new world order stabilises substantially to the right and also will those who game the system by trading within it? | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:33 - Nov 18 with 5077 views | WeWereZombies |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:24 - Nov 18 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Germany and France will go Right too. |
Well we didn't last time so maybe they will get grown up and sensible too... |  |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:43 - Nov 18 with 5029 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:29 - Nov 18 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Yeah they are so going to hate environmental and financial deregulation. Will they care if the new world order stabilises substantially to the right and also will those who game the system by trading within it? |
Of course they will - you need to see the bigger picture - it’s a global economy now, Trump’s trade barriers will see retaliation which will result in smaller profits for US businesses. Most large corps have switched preference to the Democrats for that reason. The US is a shrinking piece of the overall global economy- the Trump administration with its daily changes on policy are not conducive to business planning. | | | |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:53 - Nov 18 with 4981 views | WeWereZombies |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:43 - Nov 18 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Of course they will - you need to see the bigger picture - it’s a global economy now, Trump’s trade barriers will see retaliation which will result in smaller profits for US businesses. Most large corps have switched preference to the Democrats for that reason. The US is a shrinking piece of the overall global economy- the Trump administration with its daily changes on policy are not conducive to business planning. |
But will Trump say one thing but do another when it comes to trade barriers against China ? And has Starmer preempted him and stolen a march by setting up this meeting with Xi ?
Also do you mean that the United States economy is shrinking (and even under the worst of Trump policies I don't think it will) or that other countries are growing so as to make their economy less significant as a percentage of global trade ? [Post edited 18 Nov 2024 10:06]
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:54 - Nov 18 with 4970 views | Pinewoodblue |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:24 - Nov 18 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Most big businesses are anti-trump. Firstly they value stability and predictability over marginal tax cut gains, and any financial benefit of tax cuts will be more than lost with Trump’s trade wars. |
Big business in US gives financial support to both sides. | |
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| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:57 - Nov 18 with 4949 views | DinDjarin |
| A Guardian read for you all! on 09:53 - Nov 18 by WeWereZombies |
But will Trump say one thing but do another when it comes to trade barriers against China ? And has Starmer preempted him and stolen a march by setting up this meeting with Xi ?
Also do you mean that the United States economy is shrinking (and even under the worst of Trump policies I don't think it will) or that other countries are growing so as to make their economy less significant as a percentage of global trade ? [Post edited 18 Nov 2024 10:06]
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Irrelevant as Starmer will be gone soon.
The Southport cover up is coming home to roost. |  | | |
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