| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please 12:54 - Jun 26 with 2054 views | FBI |
There's a proposal to build an 850-acre AI Data Centre just up the road from my small North Devon town, by a company called XLink, on a greenfield site, mostly farmland. Data Centre and a BESS battery site, too.
I'm realistic enough to appreciate that this is the modern equivalent of a cotton mill, power station, motorway etc: it's the modern world, obviously. But what makes 850 acres of rural North Devon green space better than, say, a brownfield in a city and what are the environmental implications? That sort of question is what I'm trying to answer away from what the protestors and pro-lobbyists will tell me.
What I'm after from the TWTD Hive Mind is some actual, knowledgeable information about such places so I can make a balanced judgement (I have a 'public' role in the community here) based on real facts.
PLEASE: No political point-scoring, agenda-driven value judgements, etc. Just actual facts, please. |  |
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| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:00 - Jun 26 with 2017 views | King_of_Portman_Rd |
In no way knowledgeable, but probably should look to broaden my understanding as it seems inevitable one will spring up near to us all at some point in the near future.
My only tidbit is that Data centres use huge amounts of water, mainly for cooling their servers, with some apprently using up to 5 million gallons per day… which may have a significant impact on local water supply/water pressure etc.
There are already various stories of water issues in communities where data centres pop up |  | | |
| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:06 - Jun 26 with 1987 views | MJallday |
So as someone that works in the industry i want to make some important points.
1) An AI datacentre ISNT actually that much different from a "normal" datacentre. it contains servers, some management offices, some security and power / network distribution - thats it. That said, because of the growth of AI, theres likely to be 100% occupancy (most DC's tend to be 80% of there abouts) and therefore a large power draw because of the constant processing from demand. In addition a lot of DC's see power usage fluctuate throughout the day/week/month/year - AI loaded Dc's are more likely to be 100% all of the time (hence demand)
2) modern datacentres are very energy efficient. they use hot and cold air aisles, recycling of air and water cooled systems. They use a lot of energy by default, so to keep costs low, they use effective systems to manage themselves.
3) where you position a datacentre is important. it has to have good network links to the backbone networks of the UK (either directly or indirectly n-1) multiple power sources and resliance . they also have to be staffed ! - This is why DC's are often in populous areas where the necessary skilset lives.
4) land cost. an 850 acre site in devon is cheaper to buy than 850 acres of london. this is a factor. A lot of smaller DC's are setup along the m4/m5/m6 corridor these days but as costs of real estate rise, more and more rural sites will be used.
the enviromental considerations are
1) its a a big building in the middle of x
2) itll use a lot of power
3) itll generate a bit of traffic (office workers managing it but thats not a huge amount)
4) itll use a lot of water/diesal (generators for backup)
youll find it will be quite "green" -though
thats my 2p worth |  |
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| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:13 - Jun 26 with 1928 views | Illinoisblue |
There’s a big push for them over here. Critics say they give out constant noise pollution and also must use only fresh water for cooling, rather than recycling rainwater. Proponents point out that golf courses use substantially more water than data centers. It all seems a bit much just so folks can churn out word slop and graphic slop - both instantly recognizable for the garbage it is - but maybe there are legit benefits too. |  |
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| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:28 - Jun 26 with 1873 views | John_Warks_Willy |
| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:06 - Jun 26 by MJallday |
So as someone that works in the industry i want to make some important points.
1) An AI datacentre ISNT actually that much different from a "normal" datacentre. it contains servers, some management offices, some security and power / network distribution - thats it. That said, because of the growth of AI, theres likely to be 100% occupancy (most DC's tend to be 80% of there abouts) and therefore a large power draw because of the constant processing from demand. In addition a lot of DC's see power usage fluctuate throughout the day/week/month/year - AI loaded Dc's are more likely to be 100% all of the time (hence demand)
2) modern datacentres are very energy efficient. they use hot and cold air aisles, recycling of air and water cooled systems. They use a lot of energy by default, so to keep costs low, they use effective systems to manage themselves.
3) where you position a datacentre is important. it has to have good network links to the backbone networks of the UK (either directly or indirectly n-1) multiple power sources and resliance . they also have to be staffed ! - This is why DC's are often in populous areas where the necessary skilset lives.
4) land cost. an 850 acre site in devon is cheaper to buy than 850 acres of london. this is a factor. A lot of smaller DC's are setup along the m4/m5/m6 corridor these days but as costs of real estate rise, more and more rural sites will be used.
the enviromental considerations are
1) its a a big building in the middle of x
2) itll use a lot of power
3) itll generate a bit of traffic (office workers managing it but thats not a huge amount)
4) itll use a lot of water/diesal (generators for backup)
youll find it will be quite "green" -though
thats my 2p worth |
Ever need PM or QS services in data centres, please shout
Sorry, that was a bit LinkedIn!! 😁 |  |
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| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:35 - Jun 26 with 1819 views | MJallday |
| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:13 - Jun 26 by Illinoisblue |
There’s a big push for them over here. Critics say they give out constant noise pollution and also must use only fresh water for cooling, rather than recycling rainwater. Proponents point out that golf courses use substantially more water than data centers. It all seems a bit much just so folks can churn out word slop and graphic slop - both instantly recognizable for the garbage it is - but maybe there are legit benefits too. |
Theyre not actually that bad noise wise. I mean sure, if youre 20ft outside them you get the buzz of the aircon - but that basically the same with any building/factory.
A lot of DC's do use rain capture and filtering. the most efficient cooling is actually done via chemical means in a closed loop.. the problem is water / condensation & electricity dont tend to mix well, so they use closed chemical systems with superconductor materials to chill.
what ive seen a couple of DC's do (most noteably one in slough that does the servers for a very well known fizzy drink company) - is take the hot air channels and then put that into stored heat systems, heats water and generate its own power . thats quite nifty. | |
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| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:38 - Jun 26 with 1797 views | positivity |
| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:00 - Jun 26 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
In no way knowledgeable, but probably should look to broaden my understanding as it seems inevitable one will spring up near to us all at some point in the near future.
My only tidbit is that Data centres use huge amounts of water, mainly for cooling their servers, with some apprently using up to 5 million gallons per day… which may have a significant impact on local water supply/water pressure etc.
There are already various stories of water issues in communities where data centres pop up |
china are working on undersea ones, no idea how they get around the fresh water problem though |  |
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| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:44 - Jun 26 with 1767 views | bsw72 |
Sorry, bit of a brain dump based on work I did with DCs pre AI boom - the main difference between pre AI DCs and the current DCs being power demand.
To set the scene, a modern enterprise DC for standard processing, cloud storage etc etc will consume 10-20 kW per rack, compared to 80-120kW per rack for latest AI Model Training. A modern AI DC could have maybe upwards of 400 racks per acre of floor space. Thats around 25-30 MW per acre for just the racks, add on top the cooling, substations etc.
From a developer’s perspective, Greenfield sites this are attractive for a number of reasons:
Power availability and grid connection;
- Large AI data centres and co‑located BESS are fundamentally power infrastructure projects. Often the BESS needs to be close but far enough away that a fire etc dos not cause the wider DC to be closed.
- They need very large, continuous electricity supplies and rural areas are often closer to transmission lines, substations, or planned renewable generation (wind, solar, offshore connections).
- In cities, the grid is often already constrained, and reinforcing it can take many years and huge public cost. This is often the single biggest driver of site choice.
b) Land assembly and scale- 850 acres is vast.
- Assembling that amount of contiguous land in an urban brownfield location is extremely difficult.
- Greenfield farmland can be purchased and developed more quickly, cheaply, and with fewer ownership complications.
- Data centres also need wide safety buffers, cooling infrastructure, substations, and (for BESS) fire and blast separation distances (as above)
c) Planning risk and timelines - AI is a fast moving market, speed matters.
- Ironically greenfield sites can move through planning faster than complex urban regeneration, contamination remediation, demolition, and mixed ownership/heritage constraints.
d) Cooling and climate
- Cooler ambient temperatures and access to air or water cooling can reduce energy use.
- Similar Urban heat islands make cooling less efficient and more expensive.
e) Security and resilience - Rural sites can be easier to secure and harder to disrupt.
- Gnerally new core infrastructure like roads/fencing and access controls purpose built, easier to design and secure so lower risk of protest disruption, terrorism, or accidental damage.
Note that the above does not mean the site is socially right only that it may be commercially attractive, but consider Brownfield challenges.
2. Brownfield redevelopment often sounds intuitively better, but in practice . . .
- Urban layouts often cannot support the load without major reinforcement.
- Remediation of contaminated land can be unpredictable and costly.
- Competing uses (housing, mixed‑use regeneration) may deliver more social value per acre in cities.
- Data centres create very few local jobs per hectare, which weakens the case for prime urban land.
Environmental implications . . .
- Permanent loss of farmland and habitats.
- Fragmentation of wildlife corridors.
- Soil sealing (concrete and hardstanding) can increase runoff and flood risk.
- Even with landscaping and biodiversity net gain schemes, you cannot fully replace a functioning landscape.
Carbon and energy impacts . . .
- If genuinely powered by additional renewables, they can accelerate grid investment.
- Co‑located BESS can improve grid stability and renewable integration.
but,
- If they draw from the existing grid, they may increase reliance on gas generation elsewhere.
- Green power claims often are "accounting mechanisms" rather than physical supply.
Water use - as per other posters, AI data centres use large amounts of water for cooling.
- Can be a serious issue in rural areas already facing water stress.
- Water abstraction, discharge temperature, and chemical treatment all matter and can be under‑scrutinised in early proposals.
Visual and landscape impact - Data centres are low‑rise but massive.
- Very large buildings, substations, pylons, fencing, lighting, and access roads.
- Industrialisation of a rural landscape is not just aesthetic, changes how the area functions and feels.
Local economic benefit - new sites typically provide:
- High construction employment (temporary).
- Very limited permanent jobs relative to land take.
- Few supply‑chain benefits once operational.
Based on the above, some questions to raise:
- Is this the least‑harmful way to deliver infrastructure that society genuinely needs?
- Is the site chosen because of genuine grid efficiency, or because it avoids paying for urban grid upgrades?
- Does the project create new renewable capacity, or merely consume existing low‑carbon power?
- Have realistic brownfield or multi‑site options been formally assessed and published?
- Why does this scale require 850 acres rather than a denser design?
- What are the long‑term water impacts, and where does the waste heat go?
- What does the local community gain that could not be delivered by a less land‑intensive use? [Post edited 26 Jun 13:45]
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| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 14:05 - Jun 26 with 1711 views | wischip |
There was a really interesting episode of Panorama 3 years ago - called "Is the Cloud damaging the planet?"
Link here but episode currently unavailable which is a shame - maybe Panorama will revise ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programm
Maybe the programme is a bit out of date as the AI explosion hadn't yet started.
But I remember it focussed on lots of datacentres being built around Slough and the local impact of that being alarming. Also went to Scandanavia to see how they build datacentres in their fjords better. |  | | |
| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 14:30 - Jun 26 with 1642 views | FBI |
Some really good stuff here; thanks. TWTD at its best. | |
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| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 14:48 - Jun 26 with 1575 views | J2BLUE |
| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 13:13 - Jun 26 by Illinoisblue |
There’s a big push for them over here. Critics say they give out constant noise pollution and also must use only fresh water for cooling, rather than recycling rainwater. Proponents point out that golf courses use substantially more water than data centers. It all seems a bit much just so folks can churn out word slop and graphic slop - both instantly recognizable for the garbage it is - but maybe there are legit benefits too. |
The fresh water thing is not true. There may be a few designed only to use fresh water but many are now using coolants and other water sources.
Also, while the main way you see AI used may be pictures of nonsense it's a hell of a lot more than that. I use it almost every day now. Each new release is another leap forward. I a couple of years I think many people will be shocked. |  | | |
| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 16:09 - Jun 26 with 1496 views | wkj |
| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 14:48 - Jun 26 by J2BLUE |
The fresh water thing is not true. There may be a few designed only to use fresh water but many are now using coolants and other water sources.
Also, while the main way you see AI used may be pictures of nonsense it's a hell of a lot more than that. I use it almost every day now. Each new release is another leap forward. I a couple of years I think many people will be shocked. |
Also, data centres being built underwater to save on energy and water cooling.
https://www.theguardian.com/wo
Whilst machine learning is coming on leaps and bounds, it is a long way from actually being considered closed to AI by definition. However, we are approaching a point where the information that ML provides is becoming problematic, because if generative ML is using other generative ML as a dataset, eventually we head towards a bit of a paradox.
With everything, Machine Learning will hit an abrupt ceiling eventually, and we will have to start objectively analysing the data with more and more trained minds to separate fact from fiction.
Either way, pattern recognition with ML is on point and certainly helps us to no end when handling big data, so that application is strong at least. [Post edited 26 Jun 16:12]
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| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 16:27 - Jun 26 with 1457 views | JonBlue |
I've just received my leaflet. Seems to me since the failure of the Morocco to UK power cable plan Xlinks are scrabbling around looking to make use of the grid facilities at Alverdiscott they've already spent money on.
It's interesting to see in the leaflet say they will be seeking planning permission from Torridge District Council when a huge project like that would be decided at national government level, perhaps they're being disingenuous and want to give the impression it will decided locally.
I am particularly impressed by the crap AI image of the perfectly flat site that anyone who knows the area will be aware is anything but. That and the proposal for public open space as a bribe when the town has 365 acres of it already gives the impression of complete cluelessness of the local area. If they are as shoddy going forward I have hopes that they have little chance of turning it into a reality. |  | | |
| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 18:13 - Jun 26 with 1278 views | FBI |
| AI Data Centres: sensible, balanced information request please on 16:27 - Jun 26 by JonBlue |
I've just received my leaflet. Seems to me since the failure of the Morocco to UK power cable plan Xlinks are scrabbling around looking to make use of the grid facilities at Alverdiscott they've already spent money on.
It's interesting to see in the leaflet say they will be seeking planning permission from Torridge District Council when a huge project like that would be decided at national government level, perhaps they're being disingenuous and want to give the impression it will decided locally.
I am particularly impressed by the crap AI image of the perfectly flat site that anyone who knows the area will be aware is anything but. That and the proposal for public open space as a bribe when the town has 365 acres of it already gives the impression of complete cluelessness of the local area. If they are as shoddy going forward I have hopes that they have little chance of turning it into a reality. |
I'm Chair of Trustees at Torrington Museum; pop in for a chat sometime! | |
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