| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory 16:36 - Feb 15 with 23028 views | tractordownsouth |
Apologies I'm a few days late, but here's the charming Mr Rees- Mogg presenting a Daily Express petition to cut foreign aid to poor countries. What a lovely chap.
Appreciate a few of you aren't fans of the Guardian, but the picture's there for all to see.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/11/oxfam-foreign-aid-jacob-re
( Edited for time inaccuracy) [Post edited 15 Feb 2018 16:50]
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:20 - Feb 16 with 2055 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:12 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
No believe me I don't believe in souls.
Morning after pill? I have already said I believe life begins on conception. The problem is that conception can happen any time between 45 minutes and one week after sex.
The potential is in every egg but it takes two to make a baby.
As I say, it's a personal view. It just amazes me that those who are pro life are made out to the people in the wrong. |
As far as I’ve seen Glassers (not just in this thread I hasten to add), it’s not so much the pro-life ideology that people see as wrong but the people who believe there is absolutely no wiggle room for scenarios such as raped women. |  |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:20 - Feb 16 with 2055 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:10 - Feb 16 by sparks |
A photo in the daily mail probably isnt the best evidence to rely upon.
I suggest we must be guided by the best scientific information available on the subject... |
Rubbishing the source. Now that is a very weak argument Bullers. |  |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:20 - Feb 16 with 2053 views | chicoazul |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:16 - Feb 16 by sparks |
"fundamentalist" is an extraordinary word to use int hat context. Do elaborate.
Do you agree or disagree that people who are of the view that life should be protected from conception often have a belief (whether overt or lingering) in souls? |
Unlike some I don't presume to understand what anyone thinks of anything unless they make it explicit. I also wouldnt choose to mock them if they did hold that belief. And you are a fundamentalist, of course you are. |  |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:21 - Feb 16 with 2048 views | sparks |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:20 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Rubbishing the source. Now that is a very weak argument Bullers. |
Its really not- the Mail is utterly untrustworthy and agenda driven. It is appropriate to look at the proper evidence surely? |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:21 - Feb 16 with 2046 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:18 - Feb 16 by sparks |
I think youd need to consider the medical and scientific evidence before reaching that view.
There is certainly an interesting argument / discussion to be had about whether the cut off should be based on "viability" of the foetus, or on when it might sensibly be considered to be something approaching sentience etc. They take all this stuff into account - including evidence about when pain can be felt, brain activity etc. I suspect abortions at 22/ 24 weeks are pretty unusual as well- though Ive not checked the stats. |
It’s currently 24 but that picture and the quick research in the last half an hour makes me think it should be adjusted to at, the latest, 18. | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:21 - Feb 16 with 2046 views | sparks |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:20 - Feb 16 by chicoazul |
Unlike some I don't presume to understand what anyone thinks of anything unless they make it explicit. I also wouldnt choose to mock them if they did hold that belief. And you are a fundamentalist, of course you are. |
I can but repeat the previous post and question. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:23 - Feb 16 with 2040 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:18 - Feb 16 by sparks |
I think youd need to consider the medical and scientific evidence before reaching that view.
There is certainly an interesting argument / discussion to be had about whether the cut off should be based on "viability" of the foetus, or on when it might sensibly be considered to be something approaching sentience etc. They take all this stuff into account - including evidence about when pain can be felt, brain activity etc. I suspect abortions at 22/ 24 weeks are pretty unusual as well- though Ive not checked the stats. |
But you accept it is more than just a collection of cells with potential to be a baby. It is a baby. Only 5% of babies born at that stage go on to live but regardless it is a baby and people are killing them. | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:24 - Feb 16 with 2037 views | sparks |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:23 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
But you accept it is more than just a collection of cells with potential to be a baby. It is a baby. Only 5% of babies born at that stage go on to live but regardless it is a baby and people are killing them. |
You are still focussed entirely on your picture and 24 weeks... Or so it seems.
at a week after conception, its a collection of cells with instructions. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:26 - Feb 16 with 2032 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:14 - Feb 16 by The_Romford_Blue |
I googled it after seeing that photo and a baby born on the day before the cutoff was born premature and sadly died.
But it was a fully adapted if not small baby. Arms and legs and eyes and all that.
I had no idea they were so adapted when could be terminated.
The thing is, because of rapes, I’ve always thought abortion is the right thing. Or even for women who don’t feel in the right place to be a mother. But that photo makes me think it’s the wrong timescales for abortion allowed. I’d take off a considerable amount to the latest abortion date from what it is now. |
Since the news of my upcoming Grandmasterhood I have been following the developments of the bump with great interest.
After about 9 weeks I learnt that Ziggy was sucking his thumb, yawning and developing fingerprints.
Marvelous stuff!
Whilst still just about pro choice I believe that the cut off date should be around 6 weeks. |  |
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| on 13:28 - Feb 16 with 2008 views | _ |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:26 - Feb 16 by Lord_Lucan |
Since the news of my upcoming Grandmasterhood I have been following the developments of the bump with great interest.
After about 9 weeks I learnt that Ziggy was sucking his thumb, yawning and developing fingerprints.
Marvelous stuff!
Whilst still just about pro choice I believe that the cut off date should be around 6 weeks. |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:29 - Feb 16 with 2024 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:21 - Feb 16 by sparks |
Its really not- the Mail is utterly untrustworthy and agenda driven. It is appropriate to look at the proper evidence surely? |
It was a picture of a baby born withing the time limit of abortions ffs. Do you deny that this is what they look like at 22 weeks?
How about these pictures then?
That is a baby isn't it. Not a collection of cells. A baby.
Do you accept that is a baby inside of a womb and not a collection of cells? Do you accept that the mother in the graphic could legally kill that baby? | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:29 - Feb 16 with 2018 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:26 - Feb 16 by Lord_Lucan |
Since the news of my upcoming Grandmasterhood I have been following the developments of the bump with great interest.
After about 9 weeks I learnt that Ziggy was sucking his thumb, yawning and developing fingerprints.
Marvelous stuff!
Whilst still just about pro choice I believe that the cut off date should be around 6 weeks. |
Blimey. They can suck their thumbs at that point!
The date in my head is going back and back and back the more I read. If they can suck their thunbs by that point, it automatically should go to before that point. So my last suggestion of 18 weeks a few minutes ago just got halved.
It’s crazy because without this thread, I’d have continued my views of the current abortion limit of 24 weeks is fine. | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:30 - Feb 16 with 2014 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:24 - Feb 16 by sparks |
You are still focussed entirely on your picture and 24 weeks... Or so it seems.
at a week after conception, its a collection of cells with instructions. |
With the potential to go on and lead a fantastic life. It has the right to do so. | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:32 - Feb 16 with 2012 views | sparks |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:29 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
It was a picture of a baby born withing the time limit of abortions ffs. Do you deny that this is what they look like at 22 weeks?
How about these pictures then?
That is a baby isn't it. Not a collection of cells. A baby.
Do you accept that is a baby inside of a womb and not a collection of cells? Do you accept that the mother in the graphic could legally kill that baby? |
Good grief. Why are you still on about the same thing? Where is the evidence of sentience / feeling / viability. What is it you are still arguing about- given that I have said quite explicitly, more than once, that there is a valid discussion to be had about cut off times? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:32 - Feb 16 with 2009 views | The_Romford_Blue |
Cheers for linking that Libby. Nice story that. Particularly the bit about the 6 year old wanting the baby Home so asked Father Christmas. | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:33 - Feb 16 with 2008 views | sparks |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:29 - Feb 16 by The_Romford_Blue |
Blimey. They can suck their thumbs at that point!
The date in my head is going back and back and back the more I read. If they can suck their thunbs by that point, it automatically should go to before that point. So my last suggestion of 18 weeks a few minutes ago just got halved.
It’s crazy because without this thread, I’d have continued my views of the current abortion limit of 24 weeks is fine. |
You really should go and read the evidence and reasoning offered by science before reaching a conclusion. Thats just good general advice tbh... Doesnt mean you are wrong- but you are leaping to a view based on very little. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:34 - Feb 16 with 2006 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:32 - Feb 16 by sparks |
Good grief. Why are you still on about the same thing? Where is the evidence of sentience / feeling / viability. What is it you are still arguing about- given that I have said quite explicitly, more than once, that there is a valid discussion to be had about cut off times? |
Because you tried to rubbish the first picture as it was in the Mail. | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:35 - Feb 16 with 2002 views | sparks |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:30 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
With the potential to go on and lead a fantastic life. It has the right to do so. |
Its just some cells. It has no rights per se. Anymore than spilled semen does- each sperm having similarly potential to go on an lead a fantastic life.
I get the distinction- but in reality, it is a very very fine one. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:35 - Feb 16 with 1999 views | Lord_Lucan |
I was born three months early which was quite problematic in 1965 and nearly didn't make it, had the last rights read and all that Catholic caper.
I forget how much I weighed but I think I remember mother saying just over 1 lb***
***You should see me now! | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:36 - Feb 16 with 1999 views | sparks |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:34 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Because you tried to rubbish the first picture as it was in the Mail. |
I suggested checking proper evidence, because the Mail is untrustworthy, outright dishonest, and agenda driven. Its about the worst basis for any sort of discussion. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:38 - Feb 16 with 1994 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:35 - Feb 16 by sparks |
Its just some cells. It has no rights per se. Anymore than spilled semen does- each sperm having similarly potential to go on an lead a fantastic life.
I get the distinction- but in reality, it is a very very fine one. |
And again, I am talking about a conceived pregnancy. When the seamen penetrates the egg. One without the other isn't life.
Getting back to the time limit. I'm a pragmatist. I'd rather see the limit reduced to the level Lucan suggested as no abortion will never happen. | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:39 - Feb 16 with 1991 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:35 - Feb 16 by Lord_Lucan |
I was born three months early which was quite problematic in 1965 and nearly didn't make it, had the last rights read and all that Catholic caper.
I forget how much I weighed but I think I remember mother saying just over 1 lb***
***You should see me now! |
You still have the same hairstyle :-) | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:41 - Feb 16 with 1988 views | sparks |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:38 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
And again, I am talking about a conceived pregnancy. When the seamen penetrates the egg. One without the other isn't life.
Getting back to the time limit. I'm a pragmatist. I'd rather see the limit reduced to the level Lucan suggested as no abortion will never happen. |
Its an organic living collection of cells with attached instructions at both points. I do think that the "magical" moment has, objectively, limited impact on that analysis and I do think that for many (not necessarily you) that ideas about souls are part of the thinking. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:43 - Feb 16 with 1985 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 13:39 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
You still have the same hairstyle :-) |
And my penis has gone back to birth size. | |
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| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 18:54 - Feb 16 with 1923 views | Bangor31 |
| Jacob Rees- Mogg covering himself in even more glory on 08:54 - Feb 16 by tractordownsouth |
So I'm not allowed to give an opinion on someone else's views? So is it free speech that's "making this country such a joke"? |
The opinion hasn’t harmed you, it is an opinion that causes no direct harm. To say it is abhorrent is such a strong way to describe an opinion that, is pro not killing an organism. I would also put forward that it has implied that that view is categorically wrong and that he is either directly or indirectly causing harm.
But let’s allow spinning sentences win the day | | | |
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