| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:01 - Mar 24 with 4129 views | DanTheMan |
If I'm not mistaken, J2 voted for Brexit. |  |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:03 - Mar 24 with 4135 views | Reuser_is_God |
How long until they accuse all those that voted leave of being racist? |  |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:06 - Mar 24 with 4127 views | Dubtractor |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:01 - Mar 24 by DanTheMan |
If I'm not mistaken, J2 voted for Brexit. |
He did. The OP is a massive fail. |  |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:07 - Mar 24 with 4132 views | J2BLUE |
I'm taking a banner which reads:
The fact that you lot are more offended by Brexit than what happened in France yesterday speaks volumes.
Utter fckwits |  |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:08 - Mar 24 with 4116 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:06 - Mar 24 by Dubtractor |
He did. The OP is a massive fail. |
I've always had a special talent for upsetting simpletons on here. | |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:09 - Mar 24 with 4112 views | Anthony_Carmichael |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:01 - Mar 24 by DanTheMan |
If I'm not mistaken, J2 voted for Brexit. |
Always thought he was a nazi. |  | | |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:10 - Mar 24 with 4097 views | Anthony_Carmichael |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:08 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
I've always had a special talent for upsetting simpletons on here. |
It's not difficult | | | |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 10:39 - Mar 24 with 3961 views | BlueBadger |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:03 - Mar 24 by Reuser_is_God |
How long until they accuse all those that voted leave of being racist? |
You won, we lost. Get over it. |  |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 10:45 - Mar 24 with 3963 views | wkj |
As I've stated before, I voted remain, and although disappointed, respect the fact a democratic process was carried out. Now I just want the whole process to hurry up and be over, as its turning into another long drawn out process of people being divided by either whining about not getting their way, or acting like bullies by making fun of everyone who had an opposite opinion, regardless of if they accepted the result or not.
Proof that very few people have the ability to have an independent thought any more and have to hide behind a label and (e)throw(/e) rocks at each other, pretty sad really. [Post edited 24 Mar 2018 11:18]
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:12 - Mar 24 with 3875 views | connorscontract |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 10:45 - Mar 24 by wkj |
As I've stated before, I voted remain, and although disappointed, respect the fact a democratic process was carried out. Now I just want the whole process to hurry up and be over, as its turning into another long drawn out process of people being divided by either whining about not getting their way, or acting like bullies by making fun of everyone who had an opposite opinion, regardless of if they accepted the result or not.
Proof that very few people have the ability to have an independent thought any more and have to hide behind a label and (e)throw(/e) rocks at each other, pretty sad really. [Post edited 24 Mar 2018 11:18]
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Whilst you are correct that a democratic decision was made, the Referendum was a complete fck up by an incompetent Prime Minister.
So:
a) it was an advisory Referendum, and Parliamentary Sovereignty should therefore prevail.
b) it was a Referendum about the EU, not the Single Market. No spin from Rees-Mogg can change that fact.
c) the vote was extremely close, and to bring the nation together in the way your post suggests, it would have been much better if the Government had taken the line that we were withdrawing from the EU but not the Single Market, rather than allowing the Rees-Mogg fringe to dictate terms.
d) the demographics of the vote are such that by the time Brexit is implemented the majority of voting age will be against it. My 17 year old son will be 18 before March next year and has been completely disenfranchised by this process. His generation are in support of EU membership and will face the consequences of this decision for the whole of their working lives.
e) The Good Friday Agreement matters. It matters more than Rees-Mogg's hard-on for Blue Passports. It is utterly incompatible with leaving the Single Market. It needs to be thought about seriously. Sorry if it is boring.
f) It still can be stopped. I passionately believe in the EU as an imperfect force for good. As passionately as Farage believed in Brexit. He was allowed to speak whilst he was in the minority.
g) Putin. The real winner from Brexit. His goal is a weaker, divided Europe and there is strong evidence that he influenced the campaign. The situation with Russia has worsened considerably and in my mind when situations change it is sensible to reconsider major courses of action.
h) The NHS is facing a staffing crisis that threatens it's abililty to cope. Brexit has caused a flight of skilled immigrants, and it is reasonable to believe that this will continue or accelerate. We saw hospitals reach critical levels and shut down to new admissions this winter. This will become the new normal. Brexit is a factor. The NHS matters to me. Sorry if it is boring to oppose something which threatens the NHS.
i) The UK economy has been severely weakened by austerity and hasn't recovered as quickly as the other major EU economies from the 2008 crash. This is a spectacularly bad time to take a jump in the dark with our future.
j) Trump is just beginning a Trade War and implementing protectionist policies. A really bad time to leave the protection of a major trading Bloc. See "if major things change it is wise to reconsider".
k) Nowhere on the Referendum ballot form did it say "whatever additional clauses are added to this by the Government you have to shut up and accept them." We didn't vote for a "not to be discussed Brexit".
l) The electorate were denied the opportunity to put Brexit to the further test by Corbyn towing May's line at the General Election. And the General Election was about more than Brexit, anyway.
In short: the terms have changed, the world has changed, the break up of the United Kingdom is an increasing risk, and what is being proposed is not what people had the choice to support or reject in a Referendum which Putin influenced. |  | | |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:16 - Mar 24 with 3851 views | wkj |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:12 - Mar 24 by connorscontract |
Whilst you are correct that a democratic decision was made, the Referendum was a complete fck up by an incompetent Prime Minister.
So:
a) it was an advisory Referendum, and Parliamentary Sovereignty should therefore prevail.
b) it was a Referendum about the EU, not the Single Market. No spin from Rees-Mogg can change that fact.
c) the vote was extremely close, and to bring the nation together in the way your post suggests, it would have been much better if the Government had taken the line that we were withdrawing from the EU but not the Single Market, rather than allowing the Rees-Mogg fringe to dictate terms.
d) the demographics of the vote are such that by the time Brexit is implemented the majority of voting age will be against it. My 17 year old son will be 18 before March next year and has been completely disenfranchised by this process. His generation are in support of EU membership and will face the consequences of this decision for the whole of their working lives.
e) The Good Friday Agreement matters. It matters more than Rees-Mogg's hard-on for Blue Passports. It is utterly incompatible with leaving the Single Market. It needs to be thought about seriously. Sorry if it is boring.
f) It still can be stopped. I passionately believe in the EU as an imperfect force for good. As passionately as Farage believed in Brexit. He was allowed to speak whilst he was in the minority.
g) Putin. The real winner from Brexit. His goal is a weaker, divided Europe and there is strong evidence that he influenced the campaign. The situation with Russia has worsened considerably and in my mind when situations change it is sensible to reconsider major courses of action.
h) The NHS is facing a staffing crisis that threatens it's abililty to cope. Brexit has caused a flight of skilled immigrants, and it is reasonable to believe that this will continue or accelerate. We saw hospitals reach critical levels and shut down to new admissions this winter. This will become the new normal. Brexit is a factor. The NHS matters to me. Sorry if it is boring to oppose something which threatens the NHS.
i) The UK economy has been severely weakened by austerity and hasn't recovered as quickly as the other major EU economies from the 2008 crash. This is a spectacularly bad time to take a jump in the dark with our future.
j) Trump is just beginning a Trade War and implementing protectionist policies. A really bad time to leave the protection of a major trading Bloc. See "if major things change it is wise to reconsider".
k) Nowhere on the Referendum ballot form did it say "whatever additional clauses are added to this by the Government you have to shut up and accept them." We didn't vote for a "not to be discussed Brexit".
l) The electorate were denied the opportunity to put Brexit to the further test by Corbyn towing May's line at the General Election. And the General Election was about more than Brexit, anyway.
In short: the terms have changed, the world has changed, the break up of the United Kingdom is an increasing risk, and what is being proposed is not what people had the choice to support or reject in a Referendum which Putin influenced. |
I don't refute your opinion and supporting rationale, though wishing for an honest campaign without foreign meddling is almost Moon on Stick thinking now- I knew deep town both camps were spouting utter tosh at times, my decision came down to how easy it has been for me to move around and work on the continent- although I will still be able to do it, it will have a lot more faffing about | |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:28 - Mar 24 with 3830 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:12 - Mar 24 by connorscontract |
Whilst you are correct that a democratic decision was made, the Referendum was a complete fck up by an incompetent Prime Minister.
So:
a) it was an advisory Referendum, and Parliamentary Sovereignty should therefore prevail.
b) it was a Referendum about the EU, not the Single Market. No spin from Rees-Mogg can change that fact.
c) the vote was extremely close, and to bring the nation together in the way your post suggests, it would have been much better if the Government had taken the line that we were withdrawing from the EU but not the Single Market, rather than allowing the Rees-Mogg fringe to dictate terms.
d) the demographics of the vote are such that by the time Brexit is implemented the majority of voting age will be against it. My 17 year old son will be 18 before March next year and has been completely disenfranchised by this process. His generation are in support of EU membership and will face the consequences of this decision for the whole of their working lives.
e) The Good Friday Agreement matters. It matters more than Rees-Mogg's hard-on for Blue Passports. It is utterly incompatible with leaving the Single Market. It needs to be thought about seriously. Sorry if it is boring.
f) It still can be stopped. I passionately believe in the EU as an imperfect force for good. As passionately as Farage believed in Brexit. He was allowed to speak whilst he was in the minority.
g) Putin. The real winner from Brexit. His goal is a weaker, divided Europe and there is strong evidence that he influenced the campaign. The situation with Russia has worsened considerably and in my mind when situations change it is sensible to reconsider major courses of action.
h) The NHS is facing a staffing crisis that threatens it's abililty to cope. Brexit has caused a flight of skilled immigrants, and it is reasonable to believe that this will continue or accelerate. We saw hospitals reach critical levels and shut down to new admissions this winter. This will become the new normal. Brexit is a factor. The NHS matters to me. Sorry if it is boring to oppose something which threatens the NHS.
i) The UK economy has been severely weakened by austerity and hasn't recovered as quickly as the other major EU economies from the 2008 crash. This is a spectacularly bad time to take a jump in the dark with our future.
j) Trump is just beginning a Trade War and implementing protectionist policies. A really bad time to leave the protection of a major trading Bloc. See "if major things change it is wise to reconsider".
k) Nowhere on the Referendum ballot form did it say "whatever additional clauses are added to this by the Government you have to shut up and accept them." We didn't vote for a "not to be discussed Brexit".
l) The electorate were denied the opportunity to put Brexit to the further test by Corbyn towing May's line at the General Election. And the General Election was about more than Brexit, anyway.
In short: the terms have changed, the world has changed, the break up of the United Kingdom is an increasing risk, and what is being proposed is not what people had the choice to support or reject in a Referendum which Putin influenced. |
Some good and fair points there. The two points I take issue with are the first two.
1) - Advisory in name only. We were told the result would be accepted. You can't backtrack now on a technicality
2) - We are constantly told that Brexit is the result of thick racists who voted out to stop immigration. It has always been clear that the four freedoms are a package deal. If people supposedly voted out on immigration grounds then that is a rejection of a soft Brexit. I consider the 'what kind of Brexit' campaign a remainer plan b tactic. On the ballot paper was to remain or to leave. I think it's fair enough to say that a vote to leave was a vote to leave all aspects of the EU. Remainers will respond with leavers saying the single market was an option, leavers will respond with remainers saying a vote to leave means we'd be out of the single market.
I'm not opposed to a second referendum on the final deal as long the final deal is negotiated in full before it is announced. It should be a straight choice between the final deal and staying in. There should also be full detail of what staying in means. If the EU will only accept us staying in return for further concessions that should be made public. | |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:31 - Mar 24 with 3821 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 10:39 - Mar 24 by BlueBadger |
You won, we lost. Get over it. |
I voted remain. | |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:33 - Mar 24 with 3813 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:31 - Mar 24 by Reuser_is_God |
I voted remain. |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:48 - Mar 24 with 3784 views | Benters2 |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:03 - Mar 24 by Reuser_is_God |
How long until they accuse all those that voted leave of being racist? |
Wait,wait i know this one!
The leftei bummer law on TWTD states that not all people who voted out are racists,yet all racists voted out.
Something like that. | | | |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:50 - Mar 24 with 3773 views | Benters2 |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 09:08 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
I've always had a special talent for upsetting simpletons on here. |
Not forgetting of course you run with 'The Three Amigos' and thats something to be really proud of! | | | |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:52 - Mar 24 with 3764 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:33 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
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Racist. | |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:59 - Mar 24 with 3753 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:50 - Mar 24 by Benters2 |
Not forgetting of course you run with 'The Three Amigos' and thats something to be really proud of! |
So jealous. [Post edited 24 Mar 2018 13:00]
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 13:02 - Mar 24 with 3742 views | connorscontract |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:28 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
Some good and fair points there. The two points I take issue with are the first two.
1) - Advisory in name only. We were told the result would be accepted. You can't backtrack now on a technicality
2) - We are constantly told that Brexit is the result of thick racists who voted out to stop immigration. It has always been clear that the four freedoms are a package deal. If people supposedly voted out on immigration grounds then that is a rejection of a soft Brexit. I consider the 'what kind of Brexit' campaign a remainer plan b tactic. On the ballot paper was to remain or to leave. I think it's fair enough to say that a vote to leave was a vote to leave all aspects of the EU. Remainers will respond with leavers saying the single market was an option, leavers will respond with remainers saying a vote to leave means we'd be out of the single market.
I'm not opposed to a second referendum on the final deal as long the final deal is negotiated in full before it is announced. It should be a straight choice between the final deal and staying in. There should also be full detail of what staying in means. If the EU will only accept us staying in return for further concessions that should be made public. |
You can't have one without the other...
So your two points boil down to:
"It said it was advisory, but it wasn't, and it said it was about only leaving the EU, (and not the Single Market which is a different entity entirely) but it wasn't."
I'm not backtracking on a technicality. This is a massive decision, with many unintended comsequences. The Referendum was only asking for the will of the people on a very specific question. It is therefore totally proper and democratic for me to ask for a further Referendum now the Government is proposing to take it much further. Especially as that threatens our economic prosperity and national security (Trump protectionism and Putin's actions).
Can I ask you:
When you voted Leave in the Referendum, did you intend for the British Government to break the Good Friday agreement?
I mean, I don't remember that being on the ballot paper, or being discussed in the campaign, but it may be one of those invisible things on the ballot paper that you could see and just know that that was meant, and any suggestion otherwise is backtracking on a technicality. | | | |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 13:08 - Mar 24 with 3710 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 13:04 - Mar 24 by Benters2 |
What that you have a crew that consists of a Grandma and a spoty yoof?  |
Enjoy your day Benters, i'm off. | |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 13:09 - Mar 24 with 3704 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 13:02 - Mar 24 by connorscontract |
You can't have one without the other...
So your two points boil down to:
"It said it was advisory, but it wasn't, and it said it was about only leaving the EU, (and not the Single Market which is a different entity entirely) but it wasn't."
I'm not backtracking on a technicality. This is a massive decision, with many unintended comsequences. The Referendum was only asking for the will of the people on a very specific question. It is therefore totally proper and democratic for me to ask for a further Referendum now the Government is proposing to take it much further. Especially as that threatens our economic prosperity and national security (Trump protectionism and Putin's actions).
Can I ask you:
When you voted Leave in the Referendum, did you intend for the British Government to break the Good Friday agreement?
I mean, I don't remember that being on the ballot paper, or being discussed in the campaign, but it may be one of those invisible things on the ballot paper that you could see and just know that that was meant, and any suggestion otherwise is backtracking on a technicality. |
I'm off to play golf, will answer later. | |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 13:10 - Mar 24 with 3690 views | Benters2 |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 13:09 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
I'm off to play golf, will answer later. |
crazy golf? | | | |
| on 13:37 - Mar 24 with 3628 views | _ |
| Anyone on here going to this today? on 12:48 - Mar 24 by Benters2 |
Wait,wait i know this one!
The leftei bummer law on TWTD states that not all people who voted out are racists,yet all racists voted out.
Something like that. |
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| Anyone on here going to this today? on 13:55 - Mar 24 with 3602 views | GlasgowBlue |
Facters was seen getting some early morning practice in.
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