| on 12:47 - Sep 27 with 3116 views | _ |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 10:52 - Sep 27 by Bluefish |
The victim mentality has been pushed on to them by people like Owen Jones. It becomes an identity and an excuse for life's struggles |
|  | |  |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 12:52 - Sep 27 with 3117 views | sparks |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 12:42 - Sep 27 by StokieBlue |
Totally off topic but loving the picture of the Liberator!
SB |
Re-watching for the umpteenth time.
"I have never understood why it is necessary to become irrational in order to prove that one cares. Or why it is necessary to prove it al all." |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:03 - Sep 27 with 3094 views | monytowbray |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 12:05 - Sep 27 by sparks |
A quick but of deeper analysis of principles is worthwhile here.
Can Callis please confirm whether he thinks the police / state should act against protesters in these circumstances:
1- A loon of some description (who is not in such a mental state as to be capable of being sectioned) decides that it is wrong to cut grass- because its a living plant. He therefore lies in front of your lawnmower for 4 days, preventing you pursuing your gardening business and costing you money.
2- A person is vehemently against organ transplants for genuinely held religous reasons. He protests by obstructing essential equipment or deliveries to a transplant unit.
I am just trying to establish principles here- so straight answers to two simple questions would be appreciated. |
I think someone above used the saying "common sense should be applied".
But as you are here for your weekly opportunity to argue with me...
1) Yes, someone should intervene if there is a mental health factor in place, considering there is limited (if any?) evidence to suggest it's wrong to cut grass.
2) Yes as lives are at stake.
How either of those relate to fracking, which is proven to be awful for the environment, is beyond me. But I can guess what's coming!
 |  |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:07 - Sep 27 with 3081 views | sparks |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:03 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
I think someone above used the saying "common sense should be applied".
But as you are here for your weekly opportunity to argue with me...
1) Yes, someone should intervene if there is a mental health factor in place, considering there is limited (if any?) evidence to suggest it's wrong to cut grass.
2) Yes as lives are at stake.
How either of those relate to fracking, which is proven to be awful for the environment, is beyond me. But I can guess what's coming!
|
You agree then, that it is appropriate for the state and police to intervene where a peaceful protest is impacting on others. I am glad we agree on that.
Now- bearing in mind that example no.1 was someone with what you and I may consider an irrational view, but who is mentally fit and capable - why should the state interfere?
The point of course, is that you have sympathy for one cause and not the other. However, if the state / police start making value judgments about the worthiness of a protest and allow that to influence whether a person or company being damaged by it gets a response / protection, we would be on the slipperiest slope imaginable, would we not? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| on 13:10 - Sep 27 with 3069 views | _ |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 10:41 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
Drug dealing could be solved if they just legalised the lot and let us get on with it! |
| | | |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:13 - Sep 27 with 3074 views | monytowbray |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:07 - Sep 27 by sparks |
You agree then, that it is appropriate for the state and police to intervene where a peaceful protest is impacting on others. I am glad we agree on that.
Now- bearing in mind that example no.1 was someone with what you and I may consider an irrational view, but who is mentally fit and capable - why should the state interfere?
The point of course, is that you have sympathy for one cause and not the other. However, if the state / police start making value judgments about the worthiness of a protest and allow that to influence whether a person or company being damaged by it gets a response / protection, we would be on the slipperiest slope imaginable, would we not? |
You seem to be blurring the lines between arrest and prison time to make your point. I don't think anyone non-violent at an EDL demo should be arrested or imprisoned and I'm certainly not in agreement with them.
The issue with your argument here is you've taken something so fictitiously hypothetical with blades of grass and tried to compare it to a legit proven environmental threat. It seems common sense can be thrown out of a window if it gives you a chance to argue with me.
FWIW, it's the prison sentence that worries me, not the fact they were arrested and/or moved on. As I said earlier, no one should go to prison for peaceful protest. | |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:16 - Sep 27 with 3067 views | monytowbray |
I don't deny there would be pros and cons, but the current approach to drugs isn't working. I mean, if I could buy drugs in a shop, regulated, taxed, safe and that money not going into funding gang activity that's a big pro.
Booze is legal and we have plenty of social issues with that. The whole system is a bit confused based on what law/society deems as acceptable through normality/habit than any level of fact/common sense. | |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:16 - Sep 27 with 3066 views | sparks |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:13 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
You seem to be blurring the lines between arrest and prison time to make your point. I don't think anyone non-violent at an EDL demo should be arrested or imprisoned and I'm certainly not in agreement with them.
The issue with your argument here is you've taken something so fictitiously hypothetical with blades of grass and tried to compare it to a legit proven environmental threat. It seems common sense can be thrown out of a window if it gives you a chance to argue with me.
FWIW, it's the prison sentence that worries me, not the fact they were arrested and/or moved on. As I said earlier, no one should go to prison for peaceful protest. |
There is no line to be blurred. You are equivocating as usual. You cant arrest someone if they are not potentially guilt yof an offence, which carries a punishment. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:19 - Sep 27 with 3060 views | monytowbray |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:16 - Sep 27 by sparks |
There is no line to be blurred. You are equivocating as usual. You cant arrest someone if they are not potentially guilt yof an offence, which carries a punishment. |
Plenty of protests have reasons to arrest. Trespassing, etc. But, we are talking prison time.
Put the goal pasts back mate, this is boring. | |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:21 - Sep 27 with 3054 views | sparks |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:19 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
Plenty of protests have reasons to arrest. Trespassing, etc. But, we are talking prison time.
Put the goal pasts back mate, this is boring. |
We were talking about the principles. You avoid that uncomfortable discussion which exposes your contradictions, by moving on to sentencing- which neither of us have enough information about to assess. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:24 - Sep 27 with 3044 views | monytowbray |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:21 - Sep 27 by sparks |
We were talking about the principles. You avoid that uncomfortable discussion which exposes your contradictions, by moving on to sentencing- which neither of us have enough information about to assess. |
WE WERE TALKING PRRISON FROM THE BEGINNING. YOU'VE SHIFTED IT TO ARRESTS WHICH I'VE SAID I UNDERSTAND AND AGREE WITH SOMEWHAT. THAT'S THE END OF THAT ONE.
I like the way your biggest issue in this thread is me, but the actual racism is fine by you. Priorities! | |
| |
| on 13:36 - Sep 27 with 3017 views | _ |
| | | |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:43 - Sep 27 with 2995 views | jaykay |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:24 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
WE WERE TALKING PRRISON FROM THE BEGINNING. YOU'VE SHIFTED IT TO ARRESTS WHICH I'VE SAID I UNDERSTAND AND AGREE WITH SOMEWHAT. THAT'S THE END OF THAT ONE.
I like the way your biggest issue in this thread is me, but the actual racism is fine by you. Priorities! |
back of the net |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:56 - Sep 27 with 2980 views | WeWereZombies |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:43 - Sep 27 by jaykay |
back of the net |
Well Callis has lost it a bit but only because he is right. The original post and most of the thread is about the severity of the sentences. So, only back of the net in trolling terms, otherwise own goal. |  |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 14:02 - Sep 27 with 2966 views | monytowbray |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 13:56 - Sep 27 by WeWereZombies |
Well Callis has lost it a bit but only because he is right. The original post and most of the thread is about the severity of the sentences. So, only back of the net in trolling terms, otherwise own goal. |
Nah, I'm right. Sparks is only here to move the goal posts for the sake of a row because he gets an orgasm at the idea of proving I'm a hypocrite. The last few times it's not really gone as planned so he stops replying and goes back under his rock until next time.
Sparks is not your average troll. Most take pleasure from simply getting a reaction, whereas for Sparks that isn't enough nor where he gets off. He thrives on being right and proving someone else (usually someone he has an agenda against) wrong.
God forbid he ever had to accept he agrees with me. If you really want to annoy Sparks, the best way is to agree with him and point out how far he's ran up the field with the goalposts! [Post edited 27 Sep 2018 14:06]
| |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 14:03 - Sep 27 with 2965 views | monytowbray |
Massive conversation and I agree, so many pros and cons to weigh up.
I gotta shoot back to work now though! | |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 14:24 - Sep 27 with 2936 views | WeWereZombies |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 14:02 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
Nah, I'm right. Sparks is only here to move the goal posts for the sake of a row because he gets an orgasm at the idea of proving I'm a hypocrite. The last few times it's not really gone as planned so he stops replying and goes back under his rock until next time.
Sparks is not your average troll. Most take pleasure from simply getting a reaction, whereas for Sparks that isn't enough nor where he gets off. He thrives on being right and proving someone else (usually someone he has an agenda against) wrong.
God forbid he ever had to accept he agrees with me. If you really want to annoy Sparks, the best way is to agree with him and point out how far he's ran up the field with the goalposts! [Post edited 27 Sep 2018 14:06]
|
But I don't want to annoy Bully, just want him to stick to the subject. No need to start your post with 'Nah' by the way, I said you were right. Just not cool. | |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 14:56 - Sep 27 with 2918 views | sparks |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 14:24 - Sep 27 by WeWereZombies |
But I don't want to annoy Bully, just want him to stick to the subject. No need to start your post with 'Nah' by the way, I said you were right. Just not cool. |
As was made crystal clear, I wanted to examine some of the principles. Which made Callis a bit antsy. A bit of cognitive dissonance was ocurring I suspect.
We have however reached the consensus that the state should intervene in peaceful protests where damage is being done to others. Had we not gone round the houses, we would have had to go back and establish this amongst all manner of squirming- which is why I approached it the way i did.
Having established that- my next question is whether Callis knows what sort of impact and cost the actions of these protesters had and upon whom? Without that knowledge, it is hard to see how one can reach a clear view about sentence. Its not information that I have- save for what is in the Judge's very brief summation contained in the report (which was presumably part of significantly longer comments) | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 15:17 - Sep 27 with 2898 views | Ryorry |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 14:56 - Sep 27 by sparks |
As was made crystal clear, I wanted to examine some of the principles. Which made Callis a bit antsy. A bit of cognitive dissonance was ocurring I suspect.
We have however reached the consensus that the state should intervene in peaceful protests where damage is being done to others. Had we not gone round the houses, we would have had to go back and establish this amongst all manner of squirming- which is why I approached it the way i did.
Having established that- my next question is whether Callis knows what sort of impact and cost the actions of these protesters had and upon whom? Without that knowledge, it is hard to see how one can reach a clear view about sentence. Its not information that I have- save for what is in the Judge's very brief summation contained in the report (which was presumably part of significantly longer comments) |
"Its not information that I have- save for what is in the Judge's very brief summation contained in the report (which was presumably part of significantly longer comments)"
The men are going to appeal, so I won't say any more at this stage - but watch this space! |  |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 15:53 - Sep 27 with 2877 views | sparks |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 15:17 - Sep 27 by Ryorry |
"Its not information that I have- save for what is in the Judge's very brief summation contained in the report (which was presumably part of significantly longer comments)"
The men are going to appeal, so I won't say any more at this stage - but watch this space! |
What is very frequently apparent in these instances of social media deciding that justice has gone wrong, is that the information is woefully incomplete and cherry picked to support a conclusion. The Tommy Robinson stuff being a perfect example.
If my protest causes £100,000 of damage to an individual's business- I imagine most people would think that worthy of signifcant punishment. Should it be any different for a company? If so, why- and how do you write a law which fairly deals with the distinction? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 15:54 - Sep 27 with 2875 views | WeWereZombies |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 14:56 - Sep 27 by sparks |
As was made crystal clear, I wanted to examine some of the principles. Which made Callis a bit antsy. A bit of cognitive dissonance was ocurring I suspect.
We have however reached the consensus that the state should intervene in peaceful protests where damage is being done to others. Had we not gone round the houses, we would have had to go back and establish this amongst all manner of squirming- which is why I approached it the way i did.
Having established that- my next question is whether Callis knows what sort of impact and cost the actions of these protesters had and upon whom? Without that knowledge, it is hard to see how one can reach a clear view about sentence. Its not information that I have- save for what is in the Judge's very brief summation contained in the report (which was presumably part of significantly longer comments) |
So when you post 'back of the net' do you hear a Darren Eadie voice in your head or an Alan Partridge one? | |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 15:57 - Sep 27 with 2875 views | baxterbasics |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 11:15 - Sep 27 by MattinLondon |
Anyone who uses the term ‘Londonistan’ is a grade A C**t. |
My understanding is this phrase was coined in the early 2000's by French security services.
Something about pot and kettle comes to mind. |  |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 15:58 - Sep 27 with 2873 views | sparks |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 15:54 - Sep 27 by WeWereZombies |
So when you post 'back of the net' do you hear a Darren Eadie voice in your head or an Alan Partridge one? |
I dont recall ever posting such a thing... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 16:04 - Sep 27 with 2865 views | monytowbray |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 14:56 - Sep 27 by sparks |
As was made crystal clear, I wanted to examine some of the principles. Which made Callis a bit antsy. A bit of cognitive dissonance was ocurring I suspect.
We have however reached the consensus that the state should intervene in peaceful protests where damage is being done to others. Had we not gone round the houses, we would have had to go back and establish this amongst all manner of squirming- which is why I approached it the way i did.
Having established that- my next question is whether Callis knows what sort of impact and cost the actions of these protesters had and upon whom? Without that knowledge, it is hard to see how one can reach a clear view about sentence. Its not information that I have- save for what is in the Judge's very brief summation contained in the report (which was presumably part of significantly longer comments) |
The reason I got “angsty” is because, as I predicted, you were doing your usual act of feeling the need to lay out a 3 part plan of hypothetical questions rather than, you know, just state your point first time round as you have in this post.
It’s a boring act that exists purely to argue with people you take issue with.
You carry on defending fracking though, you massive Tory ;) | |
| |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 16:08 - Sep 27 with 2863 views | baxterbasics |
| Apparently peaceful protest can now get you sent to prison on 16:04 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
The reason I got “angsty” is because, as I predicted, you were doing your usual act of feeling the need to lay out a 3 part plan of hypothetical questions rather than, you know, just state your point first time round as you have in this post.
It’s a boring act that exists purely to argue with people you take issue with.
You carry on defending fracking though, you massive Tory ;) |
I will defend fracking all day long, and I am glad Crusty McYoghurt-Face got banged up for getting in the way. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
