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....both the arrogance and ignorance that characterises Tory Brexiteers. Not only did he not realise that the Dover-Calais crossing is vital to the UK economy, today he has come out and said that what was lacking in negotiations was simply political will, suggesting that if we'd just tried a bit harder we'd have walked away with a cracking bespoke deal that delivers on the Brexit pipedream. Then there's this chestnut:
"I do think there is a point at which - we probably should have done it before - were we just to say 'I'm sorry this is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, we cannot accept those dictated terms'."
It seems he never has and still doesn't grasp what a complex thing Brexit is. The fact that many Brexiteers think May simply hasn't tried hard enough, whilst totally failing to offer anything themselves when given the chance, is quite staggering. They still don't get it. They still believe in the pipedream even when they've been intimately involved in the process and had to run away because it got too hard.
First the EU, now the UN by factual_blue18 Nov 2018 10:53 I blame the Man Who Saw His Job As Standing Up To EU Bullies berating himself today for Not Standing Up To EU Bullies.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 12:34 - Nov 18 by WD19
I refer you to my previous post re: Corbyn zealots in denial.
Sigh. You then attempted to expand on that and were shown to be categorically wrong. You exemplify the binary nonsense that is our politics. Any criticism of the Tories and you respond with basically "Yeah but Corbyn!". It's rank gutter politics.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 12:52 - Nov 18 by Lord_Lucan
Corbyn has been anti EU since the year dot.
And yet he campaigned (not well admittedly) and voted for remain. So he has no association with the Brexiteers who seem to be pulling the government to pieces.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 13:12 - Nov 18 by Herbivore
And yet he campaigned (not well admittedly) and voted for remain. So he has no association with the Brexiteers who seem to be pulling the government to pieces.
From Mark Pack
Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn is both praised and criticised for one of his defining political features: sticking decade after decade to the same political views.
Some people see that as an attribute — sticking with your principles — and others as a flaw — being stuck in the past. Either way, it’s clearly a large part of his political personality.
It’s also the way to understanding his views on Brexit, as those too follow a long-run and consistent approach. He is, in short, a life-long Eurosceptic:
Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum. Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty — speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993. Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008. In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service. Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so). In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.) Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012. In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union. Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996. The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 — the two-year notice to leave the EU — much quicker than even Theresa May wanted. In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017. Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union. During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe. In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market. As the Labour Leave group wrote in April 2016:
Corbyn is a well known Eurosceptic, who voted against membership in 1975, voted against the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, and voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2009.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 13:24 - Nov 18 by Lord_Lucan
From Mark Pack
Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn is both praised and criticised for one of his defining political features: sticking decade after decade to the same political views.
Some people see that as an attribute — sticking with your principles — and others as a flaw — being stuck in the past. Either way, it’s clearly a large part of his political personality.
It’s also the way to understanding his views on Brexit, as those too follow a long-run and consistent approach. He is, in short, a life-long Eurosceptic:
Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum. Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty — speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993. Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008. In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service. Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so). In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.) Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012. In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union. Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996. The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 — the two-year notice to leave the EU — much quicker than even Theresa May wanted. In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017. Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union. During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe. In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market. As the Labour Leave group wrote in April 2016:
Corbyn is a well known Eurosceptic, who voted against membership in 1975, voted against the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, and voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2009.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 13:24 - Nov 18 by Lord_Lucan
From Mark Pack
Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn is both praised and criticised for one of his defining political features: sticking decade after decade to the same political views.
Some people see that as an attribute — sticking with your principles — and others as a flaw — being stuck in the past. Either way, it’s clearly a large part of his political personality.
It’s also the way to understanding his views on Brexit, as those too follow a long-run and consistent approach. He is, in short, a life-long Eurosceptic:
Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum. Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty — speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993. Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008. In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service. Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so). In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.) Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012. In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union. Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996. The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 — the two-year notice to leave the EU — much quicker than even Theresa May wanted. In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017. Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union. During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe. In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market. As the Labour Leave group wrote in April 2016:
Corbyn is a well known Eurosceptic, who voted against membership in 1975, voted against the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, and voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2009.
Your morning reminder that Labour is lead by an anti EU conspiracy theorist. You're welcome. pic.twitter.com/4UOVmhNCiO
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 13:24 - Nov 18 by Lord_Lucan
From Mark Pack
Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn is both praised and criticised for one of his defining political features: sticking decade after decade to the same political views.
Some people see that as an attribute — sticking with your principles — and others as a flaw — being stuck in the past. Either way, it’s clearly a large part of his political personality.
It’s also the way to understanding his views on Brexit, as those too follow a long-run and consistent approach. He is, in short, a life-long Eurosceptic:
Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum. Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty — speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993. Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008. In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service. Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so). In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.) Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012. In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union. Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996. The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 — the two-year notice to leave the EU — much quicker than even Theresa May wanted. In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017. Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union. During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe. In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market. As the Labour Leave group wrote in April 2016:
Corbyn is a well known Eurosceptic, who voted against membership in 1975, voted against the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, and voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2009.
Not sure of what your point is. That''s as well-known as May thinking leaving the EU was a disastrous idea until she started pushing a hard Brexit just a week later.
They're both wrong in different ways but it's actually May's job to navigate the process rather than reach the current and inevitable conclusion this was always heading for. When you put party and personal aims before the country, it was always going to end up here.
As for Corbyn pushing his own view, it's actually not as active as that. Even the SNP and Sturgeon, who are massively against Brexit and have the support of almost two-thirds of Scotland to push that case, have held back from playing the full opposition role. Because there's no point in getting involved in theoretical stuff till you see what the deal and its immediate fallout bring to the Tories. Getting involved deflects from the more serious matter of the government and its supporters being held accountable for once in their lives.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 13:41 - Nov 18 by Darth_Koont
Not sure of what your point is. That''s as well-known as May thinking leaving the EU was a disastrous idea until she started pushing a hard Brexit just a week later.
They're both wrong in different ways but it's actually May's job to navigate the process rather than reach the current and inevitable conclusion this was always heading for. When you put party and personal aims before the country, it was always going to end up here.
As for Corbyn pushing his own view, it's actually not as active as that. Even the SNP and Sturgeon, who are massively against Brexit and have the support of almost two-thirds of Scotland to push that case, have held back from playing the full opposition role. Because there's no point in getting involved in theoretical stuff till you see what the deal and its immediate fallout bring to the Tories. Getting involved deflects from the more serious matter of the government and its supporters being held accountable for once in their lives.
My point?
My point was answering a claim that JC was a remainer.
No more no less.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 13:45 - Nov 18 by Lord_Lucan
My point?
My point was answering a claim that JC was a remainer.
No more no less.
Nobody called him a remainer, it was simply pointed out that he campaigned for and voted for remain in the referendum, which he did, and that he was not part of the vote leave campaign, which he wasn't. You seem to have started an argument with yourself on this one.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:00 - Nov 18 by Herbivore
Nobody called him a remainer, it was simply pointed out that he campaigned for and voted for remain in the referendum, which he did, and that he was not part of the vote leave campaign, which he wasn't. You seem to have started an argument with yourself on this one.
Maybe I misunderstood you - and I am certainly not arguing with anyone.
The problem though with Corbyn is that he is keeping his head so far under the radar on this that his party is an ineffectual opposition - at the very time he should be pulling May and her idiots apart.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:07 - Nov 18 by Lord_Lucan
Maybe I misunderstood you - and I am certainly not arguing with anyone.
The problem though with Corbyn is that he is keeping his head so far under the radar on this that his party is an ineffectual opposition - at the very time he should be pulling May and her idiots apart.
Totally agree with your second paragraph, no argument there. I do think Labour's own lack of clarity on Brexit isn't remotely helpful in any shape or form.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:00 - Nov 18 by Herbivore
Nobody called him a remainer, it was simply pointed out that he campaigned for and voted for remain in the referendum, which he did, and that he was not part of the vote leave campaign, which he wasn't. You seem to have started an argument with yourself on this one.
We only have Corbyn's word that he voted remain. And Corbyn has been caught out telling porkies on several occasions.
Even Labour MP's are suggesting he voted to leave.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:07 - Nov 18 by Lord_Lucan
Maybe I misunderstood you - and I am certainly not arguing with anyone.
The problem though with Corbyn is that he is keeping his head so far under the radar on this that his party is an ineffectual opposition - at the very time he should be pulling May and her idiots apart.
He's voting against something he's not even read, confirmed on live TV today unbelievable he is absolutely hopeless and even the most hardened left wing viewers know this. He has not qualities at all to be a leader let alone a PM and he shows this daily ....very depressing with all that's currently going on.
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Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:14 - Nov 18 with 1438 views
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:07 - Nov 18 by Lord_Lucan
Maybe I misunderstood you - and I am certainly not arguing with anyone.
The problem though with Corbyn is that he is keeping his head so far under the radar on this that his party is an ineffectual opposition - at the very time he should be pulling May and her idiots apart.
Unless keeping under the radar on this is the best opposition?
There'll be more damage to the Tories (and an increased chance of the UK backing away from this sorry mess) if the Tories continue to pull themselves apart rather than close ranks.
FWIW I think Corbyn is wrong about the EU and probably won't be able to push the right solution when the time comes, but it's certainly a tactic that works and I'm glad it's one that Sturgeon and the SNP seem to be following. This whole sorry mess has done more for the case for an independent Scotland within the EU (and ditching Westminster) than any campaigning could have ever achieved.
[Post edited 18 Nov 2018 14:18]
Pronouns: He/Him
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Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:15 - Nov 18 with 1431 views
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:13 - Nov 18 by jimmyvet
He's voting against something he's not even read, confirmed on live TV today unbelievable he is absolutely hopeless and even the most hardened left wing viewers know this. He has not qualities at all to be a leader let alone a PM and he shows this daily ....very depressing with all that's currently going on.
Is any politician claiming to have read the whole thing? I doubt even May has got into the detail but is reliant on the niche experts providing their summary of the key points.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:17 - Nov 18 with 1422 views
Do you ever worry about how obsessed you are with Jeremy Corbyn? Someone needs to stage an intervention and show you your Google search history to shock you into recognising the scale of your problem.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:17 - Nov 18 by Herbivore
Do you ever worry about how obsessed you are with Jeremy Corbyn? Someone needs to stage an intervention and show you your Google search history to shock you into recognising the scale of your problem.
Just not a fan of racists and liars. Sorry that bothers you.
Raab absolutely typifies.... on 14:19 - Nov 18 by GlasgowBlue
Just not a fan of racists and liars. Sorry that bothers you.
And yet you've spent most of your adult life as a member of the Tory party. Struggling to square that circle to be honest. Your obsession is pretty unhealthy though, it's odd that those who bang on about the cult of Corbyn are the ones who spend most of their time thinking and talking about him.
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