| RIP Jeremy Hardy 09:51 - Feb 1 with 6426 views | BrixtonBlue |
Very funny guy. Met him in a pub once and a very sweet guy as well. Another victim to cancer and only 57. |  |
| |  |
| Hmm on 01:27 - Feb 2 with 918 views | lowhouseblue |
| Hmm on 00:02 - Feb 2 by Darth_Koont |
It's what he would have wanted.
Maybe you should just jog on. |
once you've turned it into an excuse to call out neo-liberals then it's probably more about your own dull repetitive mantra and less about the person who's just died. just saying. [Post edited 2 Feb 2019 1:28]
|  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Hmm on 01:29 - Feb 2 with 915 views | SpruceMoose |
| Hmm on 01:27 - Feb 2 by lowhouseblue |
once you've turned it into an excuse to call out neo-liberals then it's probably more about your own dull repetitive mantra and less about the person who's just died. just saying. [Post edited 2 Feb 2019 1:28]
|
People. Let's not do this. Take the high road. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Hmm on 01:33 - Feb 2 with 909 views | jeera |
| Hmm on 01:27 - Feb 2 by lowhouseblue |
once you've turned it into an excuse to call out neo-liberals then it's probably more about your own dull repetitive mantra and less about the person who's just died. just saying. [Post edited 2 Feb 2019 1:28]
|
You certainly seem to be making the most of it.
Just saying. |  |
| |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 10:40 - Feb 2 with 826 views | solemio |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 17:46 - Feb 1 by sparks |
Sorry to be a pedant, but its a real pet peeve of mine. The word "me" is appropriate there, not "myself". |
You may well be correct, Bulbeck, but please can you explain why?
I agree that 'myself' is too frequently used when 'me' would do at least as well, but I wouldn't have thought it was actually incorrect in this case - is it? |  | | |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 10:48 - Feb 2 with 820 views | sparks |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 10:40 - Feb 2 by solemio |
You may well be correct, Bulbeck, but please can you explain why?
I agree that 'myself' is too frequently used when 'me' would do at least as well, but I wouldn't have thought it was actually incorrect in this case - is it? |
If 'me' fits, then "myself" isnt required. Its that simple really.
A more detailed answer would involve the fact that "myself" is generally used when its necessary to make it clear that it is the person speaking rather than someone else, or making a particular point that it is just the person speaking doing a thing- "Im doing X myself" (as opposed to someone else doing it).
Borrowed from an FT article:
As Fowler’s explains, the “normal and uncontroversial” uses of “myself” are either for emphasis (“I myself couldn’t see him as a worker”) or as a reflexive pronoun (“I managed to restrain myself”).
Why do people use “myself” or “yourself” rather than “me” or “you”? There are several theories. Some put it down to pomposity, or a desire to seem more important. “The government . . . published a draft bill and white paper, with a clear commitment from myself and the prime minister to hold the first elections to the Lords in 2015,” Nick Clegg, then UK deputy prime minister in the coalition government, said in a speech in 2012, about a pledge that he and the prime minister failed to fulfil – reforming the House of Lords.
Careful readers detect a lack of polish when we get this wrong
The New York Times
Some appear to think that “you” and “me” are too stark and try to soften them. They think “let’s arrange a call between myself, yourself and Belinda” sounds friendlier than “me, you and Belinda”.
Others appear to be avoiding potential confusion between “you” and “I”. They are not sure whether to say “thank you for the information you sent to my colleague and me” or “to my colleague and I”, so they play safe (they think) by saying “to my colleague and myself”.
There is another view: that there is nothing wrong with saying “for someone like myself” or “I will discuss it with Sandra and yourself when we next get together”.
Defenders of the non-reflexive “myself” and “yourself” argue that plenty of respected writers have used the pronouns this way. Indeed, Fowler’s notes that Fay Weldon wrote in a short story: “It wasn’t that Peter and myself were being singled out.”
Language changes . . . many still adhere to the old ways. They prefer to use ‘myself’ and ‘yourself’ only as reflexive pronouns or for emphasis
Correct grammar, the defenders argue, is what people say or write, not what prescriptive grammar books and style guides say they ought to. If enough of them are saying “the team and myself have had a good look at it”, that makes it correct.
This is true. Language changes. But many still adhere to the old ways. They prefer to use “myself” and “yourself” only as reflexive pronouns or for emphasis and have a visceral dislike of anything else. If you are annoying people with “myself” or “yourself”, you should ask yourself (reflexive here) whether it is worth it. As Ernest Gowers said in his wise The Complete Plain Words, you should try to affect your readers in the way you wish to affect them.
His book first appeared as Plain Words 70 years ago. He warned against sentences such as “the inspection will be made by Mr Jones and myself”. Rebecca Gowers, his great-granddaughter, who produced a revised version of the book in 2014, leaves the warning in.
If you want people to come to your breakfast roundtable, try saying “do let me or my colleague know if you would like to attend”, rather than “myself or my colleague”. Not that it would have made any difference to me; I avoid breakfast roundtables regardless of the pronoun used.
michael.skapinker@ft.com
Twitter: @Skapinker
Get alerts on Language and grammar when a new story is published
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2019. All rights reserved. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 10:57 - Feb 2 with 808 views | solemio |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 10:48 - Feb 2 by sparks |
If 'me' fits, then "myself" isnt required. Its that simple really.
A more detailed answer would involve the fact that "myself" is generally used when its necessary to make it clear that it is the person speaking rather than someone else, or making a particular point that it is just the person speaking doing a thing- "Im doing X myself" (as opposed to someone else doing it).
Borrowed from an FT article:
As Fowler’s explains, the “normal and uncontroversial” uses of “myself” are either for emphasis (“I myself couldn’t see him as a worker”) or as a reflexive pronoun (“I managed to restrain myself”).
Why do people use “myself” or “yourself” rather than “me” or “you”? There are several theories. Some put it down to pomposity, or a desire to seem more important. “The government . . . published a draft bill and white paper, with a clear commitment from myself and the prime minister to hold the first elections to the Lords in 2015,” Nick Clegg, then UK deputy prime minister in the coalition government, said in a speech in 2012, about a pledge that he and the prime minister failed to fulfil – reforming the House of Lords.
Careful readers detect a lack of polish when we get this wrong
The New York Times
Some appear to think that “you” and “me” are too stark and try to soften them. They think “let’s arrange a call between myself, yourself and Belinda” sounds friendlier than “me, you and Belinda”.
Others appear to be avoiding potential confusion between “you” and “I”. They are not sure whether to say “thank you for the information you sent to my colleague and me” or “to my colleague and I”, so they play safe (they think) by saying “to my colleague and myself”.
There is another view: that there is nothing wrong with saying “for someone like myself” or “I will discuss it with Sandra and yourself when we next get together”.
Defenders of the non-reflexive “myself” and “yourself” argue that plenty of respected writers have used the pronouns this way. Indeed, Fowler’s notes that Fay Weldon wrote in a short story: “It wasn’t that Peter and myself were being singled out.”
Language changes . . . many still adhere to the old ways. They prefer to use ‘myself’ and ‘yourself’ only as reflexive pronouns or for emphasis
Correct grammar, the defenders argue, is what people say or write, not what prescriptive grammar books and style guides say they ought to. If enough of them are saying “the team and myself have had a good look at it”, that makes it correct.
This is true. Language changes. But many still adhere to the old ways. They prefer to use “myself” and “yourself” only as reflexive pronouns or for emphasis and have a visceral dislike of anything else. If you are annoying people with “myself” or “yourself”, you should ask yourself (reflexive here) whether it is worth it. As Ernest Gowers said in his wise The Complete Plain Words, you should try to affect your readers in the way you wish to affect them.
His book first appeared as Plain Words 70 years ago. He warned against sentences such as “the inspection will be made by Mr Jones and myself”. Rebecca Gowers, his great-granddaughter, who produced a revised version of the book in 2014, leaves the warning in.
If you want people to come to your breakfast roundtable, try saying “do let me or my colleague know if you would like to attend”, rather than “myself or my colleague”. Not that it would have made any difference to me; I avoid breakfast roundtables regardless of the pronoun used.
michael.skapinker@ft.com
Twitter: @Skapinker
Get alerts on Language and grammar when a new story is published
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2019. All rights reserved. |
Thank you for such a full reply, much appreciated.
I don't think there is a word you say with which I disagree, and I would certainly hope to adhere to those usages myself (!).
However I still think it is a matter of 'best usage' rather than a clear right/wrong dichotomy!
I also fear that we are fighting a losing battle over this one. It doesn't annoy me to the degree that, say, 'fairly unique' does. That one weakens the expressive power of the language. There is no other word that means 'the only one of its kind'. | | | |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 12:06 - Feb 2 with 781 views | soupytwist |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 10:57 - Feb 2 by solemio |
Thank you for such a full reply, much appreciated.
I don't think there is a word you say with which I disagree, and I would certainly hope to adhere to those usages myself (!).
However I still think it is a matter of 'best usage' rather than a clear right/wrong dichotomy!
I also fear that we are fighting a losing battle over this one. It doesn't annoy me to the degree that, say, 'fairly unique' does. That one weakens the expressive power of the language. There is no other word that means 'the only one of its kind'. |
Without wishing to get massively off topic, two of my linguistic pet subjects have come up this thread; the myself thing and whether it's possible to have degrees of uniqueness. Surely something is either unique or not.
And to drag the post back on topic, I too had wondered why Hardy hadn't been on the News Quiz recently. Now we know why. He was very fond of Linda Smith, another tremendously funny individual who died far too early. |  | | |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 12:31 - Feb 2 with 769 views | connorscontract |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 10:57 - Feb 2 by solemio |
Thank you for such a full reply, much appreciated.
I don't think there is a word you say with which I disagree, and I would certainly hope to adhere to those usages myself (!).
However I still think it is a matter of 'best usage' rather than a clear right/wrong dichotomy!
I also fear that we are fighting a losing battle over this one. It doesn't annoy me to the degree that, say, 'fairly unique' does. That one weakens the expressive power of the language. There is no other word that means 'the only one of its kind'. |
You are, of course, correct: "unique" is the sole word meaning "only one of its kind" and anything which impinges upon this solitary status should be avoided. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 12:59 - Feb 2 with 736 views | sparks |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 10:57 - Feb 2 by solemio |
Thank you for such a full reply, much appreciated.
I don't think there is a word you say with which I disagree, and I would certainly hope to adhere to those usages myself (!).
However I still think it is a matter of 'best usage' rather than a clear right/wrong dichotomy!
I also fear that we are fighting a losing battle over this one. It doesn't annoy me to the degree that, say, 'fairly unique' does. That one weakens the expressive power of the language. There is no other word that means 'the only one of its kind'. |
You may be right about a losing battle. But if I see a job application / interview where someone makes such obvious clumsy errors, it counts significantly against the candidate. Obviously depends on the nature of the job. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 13:53 - Feb 2 with 722 views | chicoazul |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 12:59 - Feb 2 by sparks |
You may be right about a losing battle. But if I see a job application / interview where someone makes such obvious clumsy errors, it counts significantly against the candidate. Obviously depends on the nature of the job. |
It's 2019 fam, man don't speak like Chaucer anymore, Engish is an evolving language you need to get real fam. [Post edited 2 Feb 2019 13:53]
|  |
| |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 13:54 - Feb 2 with 718 views | sparks |
| RIP Jeremy Hardy on 13:53 - Feb 2 by chicoazul |
It's 2019 fam, man don't speak like Chaucer anymore, Engish is an evolving language you need to get real fam. [Post edited 2 Feb 2019 13:53]
|
Here's the thing... If language evolves so as to be less useful and precise, thats a bad thing.
Furthermore, if clients notice and care, then I want staff who at least understand how to do it properly too... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
