| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group 20:16 - Feb 18 with 3980 views | uefacup81 |
Won't call by-elections despite being convinced of having their constituents' support.
Set themselves up as a private company, meaning they don't have to declare funding sources.
Describe BAME persons as 'black or funny tinged'.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss... |  |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:18 - Feb 18 with 2767 views | WD19 |
Yeah, we know, we have already had the memo read to us. |  | | |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:19 - Feb 18 with 2763 views | Swansea_Blue |
They are only a group so far, not a political party in fairness. |  |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:21 - Feb 18 with 2749 views | uefacup81 |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:18 - Feb 18 by WD19 |
Yeah, we know, we have already had the memo read to us. |
Don't get me wrong. Corbyn is a busted flush, but the last thing we need is for the Labour Party to be forced back to its Blairist days/policies where it was essentially a red version of the Conservatives.
Likewise, if it was a bunch of seven Tories who'd resigned, I'd be picking up the same issues.
If they want to be taken seriously as the new face of politics, they need to show themselves to be different. | |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:21 - Feb 18 with 2746 views | LeagueOne |
New politics from people who have served a mainstream party a collective 100 years before leaving the party because it was no longer mainstream and middle of the road enough for them. They may as well just go the whole hog and join the Tories who lost any semblance of their identity and purpose under Heath in the 70's and became a party soly of the selfish, home owner, greedy middle classes, much like New Labour. Greed is indeed God to those people.
There's no more racism or anti-semitism in Labour then there is any other party, it's just that it's actually been reported in the Labour Party. Also, being pro-Palestine by definition doesn't make you an anti-semite, the same way that being pro peace in Ireland doesn't make you a member of the IRA.
So called Political moderates will spin any old nonsense to protect their pay thats for sure. |  |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:22 - Feb 18 with 2742 views | uefacup81 |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:19 - Feb 18 by Swansea_Blue |
They are only a group so far, not a political party in fairness. |
I think it's only a matter of time until that changes. They're campaigning for donations, and will be 'assigning roles' etc.,
If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck... | |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:23 - Feb 18 with 2740 views | Championship |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:21 - Feb 18 by LeagueOne |
New politics from people who have served a mainstream party a collective 100 years before leaving the party because it was no longer mainstream and middle of the road enough for them. They may as well just go the whole hog and join the Tories who lost any semblance of their identity and purpose under Heath in the 70's and became a party soly of the selfish, home owner, greedy middle classes, much like New Labour. Greed is indeed God to those people.
There's no more racism or anti-semitism in Labour then there is any other party, it's just that it's actually been reported in the Labour Party. Also, being pro-Palestine by definition doesn't make you an anti-semite, the same way that being pro peace in Ireland doesn't make you a member of the IRA.
So called Political moderates will spin any old nonsense to protect their pay thats for sure. |
You can't be a Tory without being selfish and greedy? |  | | |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:27 - Feb 18 with 2722 views | uefacup81 |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:19 - Feb 18 by Swansea_Blue |
They are only a group so far, not a political party in fairness. |
Also, what're the rules around 'groups'?
If these seven, and however many others they have join them along the way, stand as independents going forward, and claim that they're just a group of x wholly independent MPs who just happen to share ideologies, can they be forced to register as a party? | |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:30 - Feb 18 with 2708 views | WD19 |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:21 - Feb 18 by uefacup81 |
Don't get me wrong. Corbyn is a busted flush, but the last thing we need is for the Labour Party to be forced back to its Blairist days/policies where it was essentially a red version of the Conservatives.
Likewise, if it was a bunch of seven Tories who'd resigned, I'd be picking up the same issues.
If they want to be taken seriously as the new face of politics, they need to show themselves to be different. |
As woolly as they are, it’s tricky to reconcile the need for a new consensus politics (over Brexit) whilst simultaneously supporting parties rushing to the margins/playing to their base. | | | |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:31 - Feb 18 with 2701 views | mrshallisfit |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:23 - Feb 18 by Championship |
You can't be a Tory without being selfish and greedy? |
No...………..but it helps. |  | | |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:34 - Feb 18 with 2680 views | Darth_Koont |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:21 - Feb 18 by uefacup81 |
Don't get me wrong. Corbyn is a busted flush, but the last thing we need is for the Labour Party to be forced back to its Blairist days/policies where it was essentially a red version of the Conservatives.
Likewise, if it was a bunch of seven Tories who'd resigned, I'd be picking up the same issues.
If they want to be taken seriously as the new face of politics, they need to show themselves to be different. |
Indeed. Rather than show themselves to be different, this group is the pointlessly twitching heart of British politics.
As you say, Corbyn isn't the answer but I thought there would be a welcome shove for Labour towards a genuinely more social democratic and centre-left position that the UK is crying out for in its political debates.
This lot are the recent breed of muddlers in the middle who objected most to the prospect of that from the start. With them out the way perhaps the remaining PLP and party leadership can start focusing on the real policy needs that have been overlooked for so long but especially over the past couple of years with Brexit as well as all the in-fighting. |  |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:36 - Feb 18 with 2666 views | GlasgowBlue |
Jezza getting the old band back together.
How long before Galloway and Livingstone worm their way back in. The they're gonna party like it's 1983. |  |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:37 - Feb 18 with 2669 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:21 - Feb 18 by uefacup81 |
Don't get me wrong. Corbyn is a busted flush, but the last thing we need is for the Labour Party to be forced back to its Blairist days/policies where it was essentially a red version of the Conservatives.
Likewise, if it was a bunch of seven Tories who'd resigned, I'd be picking up the same issues.
If they want to be taken seriously as the new face of politics, they need to show themselves to be different. |
Whilst you say that, and I agree in some respects (especially on matter of privatisation and PFI, etc) they were streets ahead of the Tories on the general business of looking after the population.
I'm not a Labour supporter, but I do feel that the Red Tory moniker is unfair. All public services were better supported, you weren't treated like a criminal if you were unfit for work, your spouse wasn't treated like a criminal if he/she was born in a different country, etc.
I know they had their problems, but between them and the Tories I know which one made the UK a nice place to live.
(I've got to stop this - never voted for them in my life!). | |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:07 - Feb 18 with 2623 views | Guthrum |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:27 - Feb 18 by uefacup81 |
Also, what're the rules around 'groups'?
If these seven, and however many others they have join them along the way, stand as independents going forward, and claim that they're just a group of x wholly independent MPs who just happen to share ideologies, can they be forced to register as a party? |
You only have to register as a party for elections, for funding purposes. In the HoC, you can organise your factions how you like. |  |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:14 - Feb 18 with 2609 views | uefacup81 |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:07 - Feb 18 by Guthrum |
You only have to register as a party for elections, for funding purposes. In the HoC, you can organise your factions how you like. |
And, say, if you're 50 independent MPs?
If there's 'dodgy' funding (or at least, funding that they don't want the source of to be known) at play here, what's to stop The Independent Group (as a private company) taking the MPs on board as employees, funnelling the money to them as a 'salary', and leaving them free to fund their own campaigns citing TIG as their sole funder? [Post edited 18 Feb 2019 21:20]
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:21 - Feb 18 with 2581 views | Guthrum |
It's just a moderate wing of the Labour Party which has split away. Much like the SDP (under similar circumstances), they are pursuing a pre-existing direction which they see as no longer being compatible with the party leadership.
While such things are unusual within most of our lifetimes, they happened several times between 1885 and 1939. Only since the War have the main political parties become largely frozen in their current forms. | |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:21 - Feb 18 with 2580 views | lowhouseblue |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:36 - Feb 18 by GlasgowBlue |
Jezza getting the old band back together.
How long before Galloway and Livingstone worm their way back in. The they're gonna party like it's 1983. |
the party is dead and becoming maggot infested. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:40 - Feb 18 with 2519 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:21 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
the party is dead and becoming maggot infested. |
The day Labour loses Luciana Berger it gains Degsy Hatton. Militant won.
R.I.P. Labour | |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:44 - Feb 18 with 2501 views | Footballpete |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:21 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
the party is dead and becoming maggot infested. |
Putting aside any ideological arguments, it's the largest political party in Europe that massively increased it's share of the popular vote less than 2 years ago. It's hardly dead. |  |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:45 - Feb 18 with 2495 views | No9 |
"Set themselves up as a private company, "
Can they sit in the HoC as directors of a Ltd Co ?
They don't clas thmeselves as a political party but can they, as a group be a Ltd Co in the political arena?
Seems their new form of politics is more corrept that what we already have??????????? | | | |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 22:01 - Feb 18 with 2469 views | lowhouseblue |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:44 - Feb 18 by Footballpete |
Putting aside any ideological arguments, it's the largest political party in Europe that massively increased it's share of the popular vote less than 2 years ago. It's hardly dead. |
dead as an effective political force that will govern. the trouble with a personality cult, is that while you get a short-burst of enthusiasm, the personality is all that covers over the divisions. people have now seen corbyn for what he is - incompetent, ineffective and unable to lead. when he goes - i don't think he'll see out 2020 - the hard left will tear itself apart. beneath the corbyn cult is a rag tag bag of loons. membership is actually falling already. the £3 plastic lefties won't hang around to sing ohhh, john mcdonnell. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 22:05 - Feb 18 with 2448 views | No9 |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 22:01 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
dead as an effective political force that will govern. the trouble with a personality cult, is that while you get a short-burst of enthusiasm, the personality is all that covers over the divisions. people have now seen corbyn for what he is - incompetent, ineffective and unable to lead. when he goes - i don't think he'll see out 2020 - the hard left will tear itself apart. beneath the corbyn cult is a rag tag bag of loons. membership is actually falling already. the £3 plastic lefties won't hang around to sing ohhh, john mcdonnell. |
Any political party is only as good as its members - until the outside funding becomes so large members are not longer needed | | | |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 22:13 - Feb 18 with 2428 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:40 - Feb 18 by GlasgowBlue |
The day Labour loses Luciana Berger it gains Degsy Hatton. Militant won.
R.I.P. Labour |
This Luciana Berger, political heavyweight?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/crash-landing-for-labour-candidat
"Senior figures within the local party, speaking on condition of anonymity, have described the running of the campaign as "shambolic". There have been reports of up to 30 workers turning up to canvass but being left to sit around with nothing to do. Others are said to have objected to the quality of the material they have been asked to deliver. Local councillors asked to argue her case fear they are in danger of being sacrificed to save her.
One traditional Labour voice described the campaign as an example of the "worst excesses of New Labour". Opponents say that concerns over the quality of the candidate are now being realised. "They are afraid that if she is allowed a bit of freedom she will not only make a faux pas but run the risk of boring everyone to death,"Â
[Post edited 18 Feb 2019 22:15]
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 22:22 - Feb 18 with 2407 views | Footballpete |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 22:01 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
dead as an effective political force that will govern. the trouble with a personality cult, is that while you get a short-burst of enthusiasm, the personality is all that covers over the divisions. people have now seen corbyn for what he is - incompetent, ineffective and unable to lead. when he goes - i don't think he'll see out 2020 - the hard left will tear itself apart. beneath the corbyn cult is a rag tag bag of loons. membership is actually falling already. the £3 plastic lefties won't hang around to sing ohhh, john mcdonnell. |
My main issue with your argument is that you know full well that Corbyn would still have won comfortably without the "£3 plastic lefties" as you call them. You also massively overestimate the influence the "hard left", not to mention their numbers. | |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 22:36 - Feb 18 with 2374 views | LeagueOne |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 20:23 - Feb 18 by Championship |
You can't be a Tory without being selfish and greedy? |
Well you can, but it's not exclusive to them as proven by this mob - as soon as genuine marxist leads the Labour Party, set up to defend the workers of this country from unrestricted capitalism they defect under the guise of racism but in reality it's Corbyn's opposition to the EU keeping the wealthy on top of the working class and the political class in place, funded by unrestricted capitalism which is buying the law makers in Europe, in control which is why they have formed their Tory-lite group, of Fib-Dems, whatever you like.
This isn't new politics, it's existing right wing capitalistic "free market" post Thatcherism at it's most opportunistic. | |
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| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 22:38 - Feb 18 with 2365 views | Guthrum |
| 'New Politics' from The Independent Group on 21:45 - Feb 18 by No9 |
"Set themselves up as a private company, "
Can they sit in the HoC as directors of a Ltd Co ?
They don't clas thmeselves as a political party but can they, as a group be a Ltd Co in the political arena?
Seems their new form of politics is more corrept that what we already have??????????? |
Yes, of course they can. Both Labour and the Conservatives have limited companies associated with them and MPs (or Peers) who are, or have been, directors.
This breakaway has only existed for a matter of hours, give them a chance to sort themselves out. If things change within Labour, they may seek to rejoin. They may attract more recruits from within or outside the Party. There might be some sort of alliance - or even merger - with the LibDems.
Either way, it's very early days. We're too impatient with political developments in the UK. The Germans are happy to take weeks over building coalition governments, for example. | |
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