| Hard to know what to say anymore 15:57 - Oct 10 with 4220 views | StokieBlue |
So previously they refused to vote because they don't agree with EU institutions (but are happy to take their salary from them) and now they have made sure they vote in order to block a proposal on monitoring Russian meddling in EU elections:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russian-election-nigel-farage-bre
The Brexit Party said that claims of Russian interference in elections were "baseless propaganda and scare stories used to shut down debate".
It's an unparalleled level of hypocrisy and self-serving.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 00:01 - Oct 11 with 1204 views | BlueBadger |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 20:05 - Oct 10 by Swansea_Blue |
What was it that these low lives decided to abstain on or vote against a few weeks ago? There was something even more morally repulsive but I can’t remember what it was. |
They abstained from a vote regarding the EU as a bloc calling for the release from prison in Iran of British citizen Nazanin Zaghiri-Ratcliffe., amongst others.
I'm sure her having a foreign-sounding name had nothing to do with it. [Post edited 11 Oct 2019 14:35]
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 00:21 - Oct 11 with 1190 views | jeera |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 18:23 - Oct 10 by itfcjoe |
Sadly too many people don’t care |
And that's the size of it.
As someone posted here a week or two ago, once people have made up their minds you can offer all counter-evidence you like, but to them it's just noise. |  |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 04:25 - Oct 11 with 1167 views | BlueBadger |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 00:21 - Oct 11 by jeera |
And that's the size of it.
As someone posted here a week or two ago, once people have made up their minds you can offer all counter-evidence you like, but to them it's just noise. |
Funny you should say that. someone on FB who's been adamant that no-deal is the way to go insisted that tariffs and border checks on goods and people which would make doing business and travel a) slower and b) more expensive and red tape-y were 'just opinion, not fact' even after I posted the government's own advice(saying 'yes, there'll be checks and tariffs') on this.
Brexit is literally a religion for some people now and pointing out the flaws and holes is essentially heresy. [Post edited 11 Oct 2019 4:27]
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 07:45 - Oct 11 with 1109 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 04:25 - Oct 11 by BlueBadger |
Funny you should say that. someone on FB who's been adamant that no-deal is the way to go insisted that tariffs and border checks on goods and people which would make doing business and travel a) slower and b) more expensive and red tape-y were 'just opinion, not fact' even after I posted the government's own advice(saying 'yes, there'll be checks and tariffs') on this.
Brexit is literally a religion for some people now and pointing out the flaws and holes is essentially heresy. [Post edited 11 Oct 2019 4:27]
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Yep. Even stuff that comes out from the government, which is pushing for Brexit at all costs, is dismissed as scaremongering if it says anything remotely negative about leaving. I mentioned to my dad yesterday about EU nationals without the right settled status being kicked out after the end of October and he said this was just scaremongering. I pointed out to him that the government had said that this is exactly what will happen. I don't think he even heard it.
It's at the level of a collective delusion not dissimilar to a cult now. I keep saying it, but the flat earth documentary on Netflix is incredibly revealing in terms of how people become obsessed with an idea and won't shift from it even when their own evidence contradicts their position.
The one plus side of Brexit turning into a cult is that increasing numbers of moderate leavers seem to be changing their minds on Brexit and the leave at all costs brigade are a minority. If the opposition can get its act together and agree a second referendum once Johnson fails to get a deal then I think we'd end up with a remain win. The chances of the opposition getting its act together look slim though. |  |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 08:20 - Oct 11 with 1094 views | artsbossbeard |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 07:45 - Oct 11 by Herbivore |
Yep. Even stuff that comes out from the government, which is pushing for Brexit at all costs, is dismissed as scaremongering if it says anything remotely negative about leaving. I mentioned to my dad yesterday about EU nationals without the right settled status being kicked out after the end of October and he said this was just scaremongering. I pointed out to him that the government had said that this is exactly what will happen. I don't think he even heard it.
It's at the level of a collective delusion not dissimilar to a cult now. I keep saying it, but the flat earth documentary on Netflix is incredibly revealing in terms of how people become obsessed with an idea and won't shift from it even when their own evidence contradicts their position.
The one plus side of Brexit turning into a cult is that increasing numbers of moderate leavers seem to be changing their minds on Brexit and the leave at all costs brigade are a minority. If the opposition can get its act together and agree a second referendum once Johnson fails to get a deal then I think we'd end up with a remain win. The chances of the opposition getting its act together look slim though. |
Any chance of pointing me towards these moderate leavers?
All I'm hearing is "We must get out of the EU!!!", you enquire as to why and it's "We just must!!!"
Tiring stuff. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 08:26 - Oct 11 with 1078 views | StokieBlue |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 07:45 - Oct 11 by Herbivore |
Yep. Even stuff that comes out from the government, which is pushing for Brexit at all costs, is dismissed as scaremongering if it says anything remotely negative about leaving. I mentioned to my dad yesterday about EU nationals without the right settled status being kicked out after the end of October and he said this was just scaremongering. I pointed out to him that the government had said that this is exactly what will happen. I don't think he even heard it.
It's at the level of a collective delusion not dissimilar to a cult now. I keep saying it, but the flat earth documentary on Netflix is incredibly revealing in terms of how people become obsessed with an idea and won't shift from it even when their own evidence contradicts their position.
The one plus side of Brexit turning into a cult is that increasing numbers of moderate leavers seem to be changing their minds on Brexit and the leave at all costs brigade are a minority. If the opposition can get its act together and agree a second referendum once Johnson fails to get a deal then I think we'd end up with a remain win. The chances of the opposition getting its act together look slim though. |
The collective delusion is an interesting point.
I was having a beer with a mate the other day and he was insistent that Boris was doing a good job and couldn't understand the complaints. This guy has a PhD in string theory from Cambridge so there seems to be some weird disconnect between baseline intelligence and views on Brexit. He certainly goes against the stereotype of a brexiteer in my opinion.
In some ways I find that even more depressing. He has the tools to analyse the problem yet the facts of the matter seem irrelevant.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 08:39 - Oct 11 with 1052 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 08:20 - Oct 11 by artsbossbeard |
Any chance of pointing me towards these moderate leavers?
All I'm hearing is "We must get out of the EU!!!", you enquire as to why and it's "We just must!!!"
Tiring stuff. |
There's been a few relatively high profile Brexit supporters publicly coming out in support of remain in recent weeks on Twitter. The minority that want Brexit at all costs are the most vocal but their numbers have shrunk and they aren't likely to get any bigger. | |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 08:42 - Oct 11 with 1048 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 08:26 - Oct 11 by StokieBlue |
The collective delusion is an interesting point.
I was having a beer with a mate the other day and he was insistent that Boris was doing a good job and couldn't understand the complaints. This guy has a PhD in string theory from Cambridge so there seems to be some weird disconnect between baseline intelligence and views on Brexit. He certainly goes against the stereotype of a brexiteer in my opinion.
In some ways I find that even more depressing. He has the tools to analyse the problem yet the facts of the matter seem irrelevant.
SB |
Yeah, that is more depressing. The people who are genuinely not savvy enough that they got duped by a bus and still can't see that Johnson and Farage don't care about them I actually feel a bit sorry for. Your friend is a hopeless case, probably best to deliver a swift kick in the nuts and hope that the shock shakes him out of it. If it doesn't then he probably deserves the kick in the nuts so it's a win/win scenario. | |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 10:32 - Oct 11 with 1019 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 08:39 - Oct 11 by Herbivore |
There's been a few relatively high profile Brexit supporters publicly coming out in support of remain in recent weeks on Twitter. The minority that want Brexit at all costs are the most vocal but their numbers have shrunk and they aren't likely to get any bigger. |
I’ve mentioned before my belief that the actions and attitudes of staunch remainers has only served to drive more and more people in the middle over to the leave side...however the actions of Boris and the government in recent weeks have probably pushed a number of those back in double-quick time
That said if he does pull off a deal I think a lot of those people will see it as a good move and very much a win for Boris - the reality is that the steps taken to get there will be forgotten which they shouldn’t be, but sadly probably will |  |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 10:37 - Oct 11 with 1001 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 10:32 - Oct 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I’ve mentioned before my belief that the actions and attitudes of staunch remainers has only served to drive more and more people in the middle over to the leave side...however the actions of Boris and the government in recent weeks have probably pushed a number of those back in double-quick time
That said if he does pull off a deal I think a lot of those people will see it as a good move and very much a win for Boris - the reality is that the steps taken to get there will be forgotten which they shouldn’t be, but sadly probably will |
I just can't see how he gets a deal through in 3 weeks unless he climbs down massively and basically agrees to NI staying in a customs union. Whilst that would be sensible in many respects, it'd be political suicide for him.
Interestingly, support for remain is very slightly lower now than it was at its peak late last year and early this year. It seems Johnson's hard-line tactics are playing well with some, as mad as that seems. | |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 11:19 - Oct 11 with 968 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 10:37 - Oct 11 by Herbivore |
I just can't see how he gets a deal through in 3 weeks unless he climbs down massively and basically agrees to NI staying in a customs union. Whilst that would be sensible in many respects, it'd be political suicide for him.
Interestingly, support for remain is very slightly lower now than it was at its peak late last year and early this year. It seems Johnson's hard-line tactics are playing well with some, as mad as that seems. |
It won’t go through in 3 weeks, however if a deal is reached that looks like it has a chance of passing then I expect Johnson will climb down from the 31 Oct at all costs stance. It will be a sensible move - and one that really will only upset those unhappy with the deal itself and those that look to criticise him at all costs
Very surprised by the last paragraph - all polls that I’ve seen seem to indicate a remain bounce in recent weeks (there was a large Brexit jump in the early days of Boris but that has reversed significantly), and it would go against my personal experience too (which is admittedly limited, in the scheme of things) | |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 11:26 - Oct 11 with 958 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 11:19 - Oct 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
It won’t go through in 3 weeks, however if a deal is reached that looks like it has a chance of passing then I expect Johnson will climb down from the 31 Oct at all costs stance. It will be a sensible move - and one that really will only upset those unhappy with the deal itself and those that look to criticise him at all costs
Very surprised by the last paragraph - all polls that I’ve seen seem to indicate a remain bounce in recent weeks (there was a large Brexit jump in the early days of Boris but that has reversed significantly), and it would go against my personal experience too (which is admittedly limited, in the scheme of things) |
Maybe it's shifted the other way very recently. There was an article doing the rounds based on a poll of polls thag showed remain at 54% late last year and early this year then down at 53% more recently. That might have changed since though. That said, remain has had a steady lead in polling for a couple of years now so the will of the people narrative is a bit tiresome. | |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 12:12 - Oct 11 with 933 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 11:26 - Oct 11 by Herbivore |
Maybe it's shifted the other way very recently. There was an article doing the rounds based on a poll of polls thag showed remain at 54% late last year and early this year then down at 53% more recently. That might have changed since though. That said, remain has had a steady lead in polling for a couple of years now so the will of the people narrative is a bit tiresome. |
I’m talking about the last few weeks specifically - not a wider period that would have had other movements to account for not least that immediate Boris bounce
Not sure I’d buy too much into Remain being the overall will from that either. Not to go all Dolly on polls but worth remembering Remain was also ahead before the referendum itself, and that most polls include a don’t know option and won’t weight that strength of feeling (likely that pretty much all Brexiteers would vote but not necessarily true of Remain). The only true gauge we have to go on still is the actual referendum result, really | |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 12:30 - Oct 11 with 916 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 12:12 - Oct 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I’m talking about the last few weeks specifically - not a wider period that would have had other movements to account for not least that immediate Boris bounce
Not sure I’d buy too much into Remain being the overall will from that either. Not to go all Dolly on polls but worth remembering Remain was also ahead before the referendum itself, and that most polls include a don’t know option and won’t weight that strength of feeling (likely that pretty much all Brexiteers would vote but not necessarily true of Remain). The only true gauge we have to go on still is the actual referendum result, really |
All of this is why we need another referendum really. | |
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| Hard to know what to say anymore on 12:34 - Oct 11 with 915 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Hard to know what to say anymore on 00:01 - Oct 11 by BlueBadger |
They abstained from a vote regarding the EU as a bloc calling for the release from prison in Iran of British citizen Nazanin Zaghiri-Ratcliffe., amongst others.
I'm sure her having a foreign-sounding name had nothing to do with it. [Post edited 11 Oct 2019 14:35]
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That was it, cheers. I knew it was something scummy.
This made me chuckle:
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