| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:21 - Jan 20 with 2759 views | Guthrum |
It's like the man who screams when he's short-changed, but is quietly pleased when overpaid. |  |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:24 - Jan 20 with 2739 views | HARRY10 |
Like so much of charitable trusts where the money is divied out amongst those 'in the know' who administer the trust.
Have a read of The Warden by Trollope. A summary in wikipedia will probably explain it well enough. |  | | |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:25 - Jan 20 with 2741 views | hampstead_blue |
If you put a huge pot of cash in the middle of a field and tell people they can dip in by filling out a badly written form what happens?
They fill their boots.
This is human nature at work. Nothing to do with your headline at all. Plenty of people ham it up when they have an assessment for illness claims I am sure. Those most in need suffer because of that which is wrong.
Like I said, human nature. It ignores politics and maximises its own utility. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:29 - Jan 20 with 2718 views | HARRY10 |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:25 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
If you put a huge pot of cash in the middle of a field and tell people they can dip in by filling out a badly written form what happens?
They fill their boots.
This is human nature at work. Nothing to do with your headline at all. Plenty of people ham it up when they have an assessment for illness claims I am sure. Those most in need suffer because of that which is wrong.
Like I said, human nature. It ignores politics and maximises its own utility. |
"This is human nature at work"
absolute nonsense !
there is nothing inherent in the human mind that causes such behaviour - it is a matter of choice dependent upon many variables | | | |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:30 - Jan 20 with 2714 views | footers |
On a similar theme, an old landlord of mine bought up a few large properties in Lowestoft (on London Rd for those who know the area- big houses, maybe 10 flats per property) for the sole purpose of letting out to those on housing benefit. Straight from government coffers into his pocket. Another example of the UK having a huge blind spot when it comes to the efficient private sector, but not at all surprising given the Tories' links to house builders. |  |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:30 - Jan 20 with 2706 views | artsbossbeard |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:29 - Jan 20 by HARRY10 |
"This is human nature at work"
absolute nonsense !
there is nothing inherent in the human mind that causes such behaviour - it is a matter of choice dependent upon many variables |
Hampstead is the board's resident Tory Bot.
It's second nature, sadly. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:37 - Jan 20 with 2680 views | Steve_M |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:25 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
If you put a huge pot of cash in the middle of a field and tell people they can dip in by filling out a badly written form what happens?
They fill their boots.
This is human nature at work. Nothing to do with your headline at all. Plenty of people ham it up when they have an assessment for illness claims I am sure. Those most in need suffer because of that which is wrong.
Like I said, human nature. It ignores politics and maximises its own utility. |
The point, though, is not about what incentivises people to commit fraud, it's why the outrage at said fraud is so selective. That point is very much political. [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 10:59]
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:37 - Jan 20 with 2679 views | Guthrum |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:24 - Jan 20 by HARRY10 |
Like so much of charitable trusts where the money is divied out amongst those 'in the know' who administer the trust.
Have a read of The Warden by Trollope. A summary in wikipedia will probably explain it well enough. |
Except that is rarely the case. The Charity Commission is quite hot on grantmakers who only distribute to organisations run by trustees.
And Trollope was writing satire, over 150 years ago, much as Dickens was with Oliver Twist. Compare that with the Muller Orphanages in Bristol. | |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:44 - Jan 20 with 2648 views | GeoffSentence |
There certainly should be.
For this particular case I would say that there hasn't been such outrage in most of the UK because it is tucked away quietly in Northern Ireland. Most of us in the rest of the UK have no idea that this was happening. I was vaguely aware of some green energy scheme being an issue in NI, but until reading this I had no idea what it was all about and how people were milking it. I doubt that I am alone in that. |  |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:45 - Jan 20 with 2645 views | HARRY10 |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:37 - Jan 20 by Guthrum |
Except that is rarely the case. The Charity Commission is quite hot on grantmakers who only distribute to organisations run by trustees.
And Trollope was writing satire, over 150 years ago, much as Dickens was with Oliver Twist. Compare that with the Muller Orphanages in Bristol. |
The organisations are not run by trustees, that is the point.
It is their discretion as to who should be awarded a grant for helping local school children gain an education - as was set up 150 years ago.
What Trollope was doing was to highlight a common practice - something that has little changed since then. | | | |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:47 - Jan 20 with 2644 views | Guthrum |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:25 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
If you put a huge pot of cash in the middle of a field and tell people they can dip in by filling out a badly written form what happens?
They fill their boots.
This is human nature at work. Nothing to do with your headline at all. Plenty of people ham it up when they have an assessment for illness claims I am sure. Those most in need suffer because of that which is wrong.
Like I said, human nature. It ignores politics and maximises its own utility. |
In which case either:
1) There has to be a strong moral incentive to build up society rather than selfish individualism. Unfortunately, for the past several decades, a powerful narrative in the opposite direction has been promoted.
or
2) The state has to do it, enforced by law. But governments prefer not to do that any more, as tax rises and tighter controls upset donors, the media and voters. | |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:56 - Jan 20 with 2611 views | Guthrum |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:45 - Jan 20 by HARRY10 |
The organisations are not run by trustees, that is the point.
It is their discretion as to who should be awarded a grant for helping local school children gain an education - as was set up 150 years ago.
What Trollope was doing was to highlight a common practice - something that has little changed since then. |
Charitable trusts are run by trustees (within the constaints of the deeds). However, their decisions are overseen by the Charity Commission. I worked for a time in that sector and am a trustee of a very small charity. | |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 11:00 - Jan 20 with 2593 views | Herbivore |
Whilst this doesn't legally constitute fraud as a criminal offence, it is essentially fraudulent. They have claimed public money for a purpose they don't need it for. It should be the source of outrage but it won't be. I do think the fact it was in NI makes a difference as people don't pay much heed to NI from the mainland. That said there is also this odd perception that when people who don't really need the money manage to get free money from government they are somehow winning rather than being a bunch of amoral bellends who we should pour scorn on. |  |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 11:15 - Jan 20 with 2557 views | HARRY10 |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:56 - Jan 20 by Guthrum |
Charitable trusts are run by trustees (within the constaints of the deeds). However, their decisions are overseen by the Charity Commission. I worked for a time in that sector and am a trustee of a very small charity. |
Who cannot, and certainly do not, check every grant.
Much of these trusts can be interpretated as required as so many no longer are 'fit for purpose' ie one where two bags of coal went to every retired person in the village, and eventually became a £40 grant awarded to wealthy retirees from outside the village. A charitable fund to educate poor boys that had almost lain dormant until it was found to have been used as an annual grant to the vicars sons.
Much is dependant upon the integrity of the trustees, something that is all too often lacking. | | | |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 11:42 - Jan 20 with 2510 views | Guthrum |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 11:15 - Jan 20 by HARRY10 |
Who cannot, and certainly do not, check every grant.
Much of these trusts can be interpretated as required as so many no longer are 'fit for purpose' ie one where two bags of coal went to every retired person in the village, and eventually became a £40 grant awarded to wealthy retirees from outside the village. A charitable fund to educate poor boys that had almost lain dormant until it was found to have been used as an annual grant to the vicars sons.
Much is dependant upon the integrity of the trustees, something that is all too often lacking. |
A lot of those tiny ancient village bequests (which often aren't registered charities anyway) are pretty much dormant and their disbursements too low to mase an appreciable difference in the modern world. There is, perhaps, an argument for enforced amalgamation, but that would be a matter for an act of Parliament.
Their activities are also by no means typical of the larger grantmakers. | |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:06 - Jan 20 with 2414 views | hampstead_blue |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:29 - Jan 20 by HARRY10 |
"This is human nature at work"
absolute nonsense !
there is nothing inherent in the human mind that causes such behaviour - it is a matter of choice dependent upon many variables |
Rubbish.
We are all utility maximizers. Only a desire believe otherwise hopes we are not.
It's inescapable.
If everyone knew and could exploit the loophole.then virtually all would have done so. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:09 - Jan 20 with 2406 views | Herbivore |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:06 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
Rubbish.
We are all utility maximizers. Only a desire believe otherwise hopes we are not.
It's inescapable.
If everyone knew and could exploit the loophole.then virtually all would have done so. |
Nonsense. | |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:12 - Jan 20 with 2397 views | HARRY10 |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:06 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
Rubbish.
We are all utility maximizers. Only a desire believe otherwise hopes we are not.
It's inescapable.
If everyone knew and could exploit the loophole.then virtually all would have done so. |
stop judging others by your own principles | | | |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:13 - Jan 20 with 2394 views | HARRY10 |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 11:42 - Jan 20 by Guthrum |
A lot of those tiny ancient village bequests (which often aren't registered charities anyway) are pretty much dormant and their disbursements too low to mase an appreciable difference in the modern world. There is, perhaps, an argument for enforced amalgamation, but that would be a matter for an act of Parliament.
Their activities are also by no means typical of the larger grantmakers. |
"Their activities are also by no means typical of the larger grantmakers. "
err, that was my point | | | |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:17 - Jan 20 with 2388 views | Dyland |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:06 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
Rubbish.
We are all utility maximizers. Only a desire believe otherwise hopes we are not.
It's inescapable.
If everyone knew and could exploit the loophole.then virtually all would have done so. |
You judge the whole of humanity through your own murky lights, possibly without realising it. We are not all quite the same. I agree with some of what you post, in principle, but you don't half come across as ignorant a lot of the time. |  |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:23 - Jan 20 with 2363 views | Herbivore |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 10:25 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
If you put a huge pot of cash in the middle of a field and tell people they can dip in by filling out a badly written form what happens?
They fill their boots.
This is human nature at work. Nothing to do with your headline at all. Plenty of people ham it up when they have an assessment for illness claims I am sure. Those most in need suffer because of that which is wrong.
Like I said, human nature. It ignores politics and maximises its own utility. |
Have a read of this if you have 5 minutes spare, it initially sums you up then shows why you're wrong: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/nov/20/human-nature-politics-left | |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 14:08 - Jan 20 with 2309 views | Guthrum |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:13 - Jan 20 by HARRY10 |
"Their activities are also by no means typical of the larger grantmakers. "
err, that was my point |
Ah, sorry, must have got the wrong end of the stick. | |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 14:32 - Jan 20 with 2280 views | eireblue |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:06 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
Rubbish.
We are all utility maximizers. Only a desire believe otherwise hopes we are not.
It's inescapable.
If everyone knew and could exploit the loophole.then virtually all would have done so. |
You should look at the research by Sippel.
“ We conclude that the evidence for the utility maximisation hypothesis is at best mixed. While there are subjects who appear to be optimising, the majority of them do not.”
You may of course been in a minority group, and believe all humans are like you.
You would be wrong.
With respect to the OP, I think some people do and have expressed some destain at some practises that reduce tax income that could be more prevalent in the middle classes, e.g. paying people in cash to for a reduced bill and so avoiding tax. |  | | |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 14:39 - Jan 20 with 2272 views | hampstead_blue |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 13:09 - Jan 20 by Herbivore |
Nonsense. |
Stop ignoring proven economic theory.
.....and stop applying and assuming I endorse it.
It's a fact and you need to accept it I'm afraid.
The OP hints at the end it's a political problem which I agree with, but the reason people did it is a proven behaviour. [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 14:41]
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| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 14:40 - Jan 20 with 2268 views | eireblue |
| Why is there no outrage at middle-class benefit cheats? on 14:39 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
Stop ignoring proven economic theory.
.....and stop applying and assuming I endorse it.
It's a fact and you need to accept it I'm afraid.
The OP hints at the end it's a political problem which I agree with, but the reason people did it is a proven behaviour. [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 14:41]
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Post it. | | | |
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