| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity 10:08 - Feb 4 with 18442 views | Steve_M |
A lost decade even before the pointless, self-defeating waste of political energy that Brexit will continue to be for the next decade.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/02/boris-johnson-britain-
"The most striking example of this is the constellation of problems caused by cuts to local councils, which have lost nearly 60 percent of the funding that the central government previously gave them. The knock-on effects can be seen across the public realm: Six hundred youth clubs have closed in the past decade; 800 libraries have gone; public-health measures, such as anti-smoking campaigns and nutritional awareness, were excluded from the “ring fence” that protected the NHS budget during austerity, resulting in avoidable illnesses costing the health service billions of pounds."
Lewis's concluding paragraph is too optimistic though, Johnson and his successors will continue to blame everyone and everything rather than ever accept responsibility. We need a competent opposition very badly at the moment. |  |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:16 - Feb 4 with 4407 views | Guthrum |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 11:42 - Feb 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
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That was 10 years ago. And, in any case, the bubbles* which led to the 2008 crash owed more to Conservative deregulation policies (continued by New Labour) than anything else.
* Dot com, then housing. |  |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:22 - Feb 4 with 4392 views | monytowbray |
Eagerly awaiting Brazil’s response LOL.
To think he has the same equal say in who runs the country as everyone else. Democracy needs a basic intelligence test. |  |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:26 - Feb 4 with 4381 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:16 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
That was 10 years ago. And, in any case, the bubbles* which led to the 2008 crash owed more to Conservative deregulation policies (continued by New Labour) than anything else.
* Dot com, then housing. |
Indeed it was 10 years ago, and that just goes to show what a sh1t shower labour have been in that time.
The Tories have presided over austerity and brexit in that time, and yet JC could not dislodge them. He must truly hang his head in shame, and take his share of the blame on all counts.
Hopefully Labour will change the habit of a lifetime and elect a strong leader who can present genuine opposition. Unfortunately the unions will probably just cut off their nose to spite their face. |  |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:34 - Feb 4 with 4363 views | Guthrum |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:26 - Feb 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Indeed it was 10 years ago, and that just goes to show what a sh1t shower labour have been in that time.
The Tories have presided over austerity and brexit in that time, and yet JC could not dislodge them. He must truly hang his head in shame, and take his share of the blame on all counts.
Hopefully Labour will change the habit of a lifetime and elect a strong leader who can present genuine opposition. Unfortunately the unions will probably just cut off their nose to spite their face. |
Tho some of the responsibility has to go Milliband, with his mishandling of the Scots Indyref situation (which led to a fatal loss of seats in 2015) and his own weak campaigning (e.g. carved stones), the reaction to which swept Corbyn into the leadership. | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:35 - Feb 4 with 4362 views | flimflam |
What was the alternative? To continue borrowing and spending above our means?
The spend and borrow culture had failed and the crash in 2008 was the final nail in its coffin.
Something had to be done as you cannot forever go on printing funny money so there had to be cuts.
Whether the cuts were too deep then that is up for discussion but not really sure what the alternatives were. |  |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:36 - Feb 4 with 4353 views | Darth_Koont |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:26 - Feb 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Indeed it was 10 years ago, and that just goes to show what a sh1t shower labour have been in that time.
The Tories have presided over austerity and brexit in that time, and yet JC could not dislodge them. He must truly hang his head in shame, and take his share of the blame on all counts.
Hopefully Labour will change the habit of a lifetime and elect a strong leader who can present genuine opposition. Unfortunately the unions will probably just cut off their nose to spite their face. |
I think you have to blame us the electorate as we're still very much in denial about how crap our democracy is from the self-serving and self-obsessed politicians and media to a deeply unrepresentative electoral system and how we blindly consume political rhetoric.
And we've let ourselves be lied to and outmanoeuvred by incompetents so that reality and our real needs are ignored.
Ultimately, there's no-one but ourselves to blame as we keep buying it. |  |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:37 - Feb 4 with 4343 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:36 - Feb 4 by Darth_Koont |
I think you have to blame us the electorate as we're still very much in denial about how crap our democracy is from the self-serving and self-obsessed politicians and media to a deeply unrepresentative electoral system and how we blindly consume political rhetoric.
And we've let ourselves be lied to and outmanoeuvred by incompetents so that reality and our real needs are ignored.
Ultimately, there's no-one but ourselves to blame as we keep buying it. |
You feel free to take the blame if you like.
We can only vote based on the candidates that are presented to us.
If they are sh1te, its their fault. | |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:38 - Feb 4 with 4341 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:34 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
Tho some of the responsibility has to go Milliband, with his mishandling of the Scots Indyref situation (which led to a fatal loss of seats in 2015) and his own weak campaigning (e.g. carved stones), the reaction to which swept Corbyn into the leadership. |
I maintain that if David Miliband had been chosen as leader, then Labour would have been in power for some time now. | |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:39 - Feb 4 with 4331 views | flimflam |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:38 - Feb 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I maintain that if David Miliband had been chosen as leader, then Labour would have been in power for some time now. |
The Unions can take the blame for the better brother not being elected. | |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:40 - Feb 4 with 4327 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:39 - Feb 4 by flimflam |
The Unions can take the blame for the better brother not being elected. |
Indeed. | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:42 - Feb 4 with 4324 views | Dubtractor |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:35 - Feb 4 by flimflam |
What was the alternative? To continue borrowing and spending above our means?
The spend and borrow culture had failed and the crash in 2008 was the final nail in its coffin.
Something had to be done as you cannot forever go on printing funny money so there had to be cuts.
Whether the cuts were too deep then that is up for discussion but not really sure what the alternatives were. |
The problem is that it was entirely about ideology. Some cuts would have been fine and fair, but real austerity is about both spending cuts AND tax increases. We all know how it panned out in reality.
All this meant was that the cuts needed to be deeper and for longer to fund those tax cuts. Of course lots of people benefit from tax cuts, not just the super rich, but those most in need of the public sector have been stitched up. |  |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:43 - Feb 4 with 4316 views | Darth_Koont |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:37 - Feb 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
You feel free to take the blame if you like.
We can only vote based on the candidates that are presented to us.
If they are sh1te, its their fault. |
"We can only vote based on the candidates that are presented to us."
Not strictly true in that you don't have to vote for anyone. But more realistically that you look past the "presentation" and at the actual policies and how they meet needs. On an individual and certainly a national basis, we're crap at thinking about these things and then we complain where it takes us as well as the choices that were presented to us. And repeat.
The information (and the choice) is there. | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:46 - Feb 4 with 4309 views | Guthrum |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:35 - Feb 4 by flimflam |
What was the alternative? To continue borrowing and spending above our means?
The spend and borrow culture had failed and the crash in 2008 was the final nail in its coffin.
Something had to be done as you cannot forever go on printing funny money so there had to be cuts.
Whether the cuts were too deep then that is up for discussion but not really sure what the alternatives were. |
The 2008 crash had nothing to do with government borrowing. It was caused by the overexposure of private financial institutions to leveraged bad debt. Indeed, governments were in a position to bail them out to save the economy.
Currently, government borrowing is very cheap. If we're not prepared to tax adequately, then what alternative is there? It's not like the country can't generate the wealth, we're still one of the world's leading economies in terms of GDP. Even per capita we're around 20th, in the top 6 in absolute terms. | |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:47 - Feb 4 with 4303 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:43 - Feb 4 by Darth_Koont |
"We can only vote based on the candidates that are presented to us."
Not strictly true in that you don't have to vote for anyone. But more realistically that you look past the "presentation" and at the actual policies and how they meet needs. On an individual and certainly a national basis, we're crap at thinking about these things and then we complain where it takes us as well as the choices that were presented to us. And repeat.
The information (and the choice) is there. |
If the choice is poor, the result will be poor. | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:48 - Feb 4 with 4299 views | flimflam |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:42 - Feb 4 by Dubtractor |
The problem is that it was entirely about ideology. Some cuts would have been fine and fair, but real austerity is about both spending cuts AND tax increases. We all know how it panned out in reality.
All this meant was that the cuts needed to be deeper and for longer to fund those tax cuts. Of course lots of people benefit from tax cuts, not just the super rich, but those most in need of the public sector have been stitched up. |
Totally agree. | |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:50 - Feb 4 with 4288 views | flimflam |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:46 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
The 2008 crash had nothing to do with government borrowing. It was caused by the overexposure of private financial institutions to leveraged bad debt. Indeed, governments were in a position to bail them out to save the economy.
Currently, government borrowing is very cheap. If we're not prepared to tax adequately, then what alternative is there? It's not like the country can't generate the wealth, we're still one of the world's leading economies in terms of GDP. Even per capita we're around 20th, in the top 6 in absolute terms. |
No but it created the need to bail out the banks and print billions of QE.
And the light touch implemented by Brown on the financial sector exposed us to the sub prime crash so the government does have some responsibility. | |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:51 - Feb 4 with 4284 views | lowhouseblue |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:35 - Feb 4 by flimflam |
What was the alternative? To continue borrowing and spending above our means?
The spend and borrow culture had failed and the crash in 2008 was the final nail in its coffin.
Something had to be done as you cannot forever go on printing funny money so there had to be cuts.
Whether the cuts were too deep then that is up for discussion but not really sure what the alternatives were. |
in constant prices total public spending in 1996/97 (immediately before new labour) was £480 bn. it is now £850bn. remember this is constant prices - the rise isn't due to inflation. there was a period of unprecedentedly rapid rise up to 2010/11 and we have only added a further £100bn since then. averaged over the period from 1997 we have seen real growth of 2.6% pa. it's just that we had a period of an incredibly rapid (unsustainable) rise followed by a period of much slower growth. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:55 - Feb 4 with 4269 views | Guthrum |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:50 - Feb 4 by flimflam |
No but it created the need to bail out the banks and print billions of QE.
And the light touch implemented by Brown on the financial sector exposed us to the sub prime crash so the government does have some responsibility. |
Indeed. That light touch extending to the zany events of 1999-2000, as bad as the South Sea Bubble. But they were based on deregulatory policies brought in before Labour came to power. | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:56 - Feb 4 with 4263 views | Darth_Koont |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:42 - Feb 4 by Dubtractor |
The problem is that it was entirely about ideology. Some cuts would have been fine and fair, but real austerity is about both spending cuts AND tax increases. We all know how it panned out in reality.
All this meant was that the cuts needed to be deeper and for longer to fund those tax cuts. Of course lots of people benefit from tax cuts, not just the super rich, but those most in need of the public sector have been stitched up. |
Agree on the whole but real austerity is also an alternative to borrowing.
Borrowing was also presented as not an alternative while we ended up borrowing more anyway. They can argue we would have borrowed more if there hadn't been austerity cuts but of course on the whole it didn't make a massive difference to the bottom line just savaged people in most need of those services.
Our borrowing largely went on quantiative easing for the economy and the jury is out on who that actually benefits: the economy as a whole or the wealthier and more powerful who take their cut as the money trickles down into the economy. It's pennies (and not from heaven) when that reaches the least well off.
Along with austerity without tax cuts, these are the other ways their remarkably unprogressive ideology is implemented.
Successful businesses and countries invest in themselves for the short and long-term future. Don't just fiddle the books and pay themselves a bigger bonus. | |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 13:01 - Feb 4 with 4246 views | Darth_Koont |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 12:47 - Feb 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
If the choice is poor, the result will be poor. |
So we made the poorest choice as a country in protest?!! With Brexit and a progressively worse Tory government this is clearly becoming a habit.
Yeah, we're really teaching them a lesson, aren't we? | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 13:01 - Feb 4 with 4243 views | flimflam |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:55 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
Indeed. That light touch extending to the zany events of 1999-2000, as bad as the South Sea Bubble. But they were based on deregulatory policies brought in before Labour came to power. |
Its a fine line.
If you are able to borrow and successfully invest in industry and infrastructure which creates jobs, wealth, additional taxes etc then yep that is the way to go. It just went a bit wonky in the final yrs of Blairs term.
I really am hoping that is the pathway for the next few years under this government but time will tell I guess. | |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 13:14 - Feb 4 with 4221 views | HARRY10 |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 12:35 - Feb 4 by flimflam |
What was the alternative? To continue borrowing and spending above our means?
The spend and borrow culture had failed and the crash in 2008 was the final nail in its coffin.
Something had to be done as you cannot forever go on printing funny money so there had to be cuts.
Whether the cuts were too deep then that is up for discussion but not really sure what the alternatives were. |
The iriny there being that it was actually Gordon Brown who was opposing this reckless lending and was being castigated for it by George Osborne.
And it was the printingof money that enabled Bank of England to bail out the UK, as well as the ROI. It was also what was nused to prop up the UK's economy shortly after the referendum vote.
Austerity has been claimed to be about priting money - that is absolute NONSENSE. It is merely a means whereby state spending is reduced so as to cut gttaxation. The idea being that lower taxation equates to lower wages and so lower business costs. supposedly making the UK more competitive.
Unfortunately this requires cuts in schooling and training, which is why there is now such a severe skill shortage - hence the high levels of immigration needed. And further cuts to benefits that are needed to pay for those unable to compete in the labour market, The law of diminishing returns.
Failure to invest has meant burgeoning costs on the state to house people by being dependent upon an expensive and inefficient private sector. Much as NHS staffing costs have risen by having to use agency staff, as some Tory had the bright idea of cutting support for training nurse.
That is why the National Debt has almost doubled since 2010. Austerity is not about the meaningless guff of "forever go on printing funny money so there had to be cuts." which shows an almost complete lack of understanding of this, and a willingness to trot out any old rubbish if it seeks to defend those with the real wealth.
Sadly the brexit idiocy seems hellbent on this path of 'destruction'. The cheaper you drive down the cist of labour, the better chance you have of competiting..... with third world countries. |  | | |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 13:20 - Feb 4 with 4204 views | lowhouseblue |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 13:14 - Feb 4 by HARRY10 |
The iriny there being that it was actually Gordon Brown who was opposing this reckless lending and was being castigated for it by George Osborne.
And it was the printingof money that enabled Bank of England to bail out the UK, as well as the ROI. It was also what was nused to prop up the UK's economy shortly after the referendum vote.
Austerity has been claimed to be about priting money - that is absolute NONSENSE. It is merely a means whereby state spending is reduced so as to cut gttaxation. The idea being that lower taxation equates to lower wages and so lower business costs. supposedly making the UK more competitive.
Unfortunately this requires cuts in schooling and training, which is why there is now such a severe skill shortage - hence the high levels of immigration needed. And further cuts to benefits that are needed to pay for those unable to compete in the labour market, The law of diminishing returns.
Failure to invest has meant burgeoning costs on the state to house people by being dependent upon an expensive and inefficient private sector. Much as NHS staffing costs have risen by having to use agency staff, as some Tory had the bright idea of cutting support for training nurse.
That is why the National Debt has almost doubled since 2010. Austerity is not about the meaningless guff of "forever go on printing funny money so there had to be cuts." which shows an almost complete lack of understanding of this, and a willingness to trot out any old rubbish if it seeks to defend those with the real wealth.
Sadly the brexit idiocy seems hellbent on this path of 'destruction'. The cheaper you drive down the cist of labour, the better chance you have of competiting..... with third world countries. |
you do realise that public spending hasn't been cut - even in real terms it is significantly higher than in 2008 and has been every year since then. equally tax receipts are also higher. so "state spending is reduced so as to cut taxation" doesn't match the facts. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 13:29 - Feb 4 with 4189 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 13:01 - Feb 4 by Darth_Koont |
So we made the poorest choice as a country in protest?!! With Brexit and a progressively worse Tory government this is clearly becoming a habit.
Yeah, we're really teaching them a lesson, aren't we? |
I didn't make a poor choice on brexit. | |
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| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 13:36 - Feb 4 with 4163 views | Darth_Koont |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 13:29 - Feb 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I didn't make a poor choice on brexit. |
As a country we did. And unapologetically too, both at the time and even since when the facts have emerged and Brexit has taken on a real shape.
There's an individual and collective responsibility here that we'd apparently rather pass on to politicians and the media. And then complain about afterwards. | |
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