| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity 10:08 - Feb 4 with 18440 views | Steve_M |
A lost decade even before the pointless, self-defeating waste of political energy that Brexit will continue to be for the next decade.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/02/boris-johnson-britain-
"The most striking example of this is the constellation of problems caused by cuts to local councils, which have lost nearly 60 percent of the funding that the central government previously gave them. The knock-on effects can be seen across the public realm: Six hundred youth clubs have closed in the past decade; 800 libraries have gone; public-health measures, such as anti-smoking campaigns and nutritional awareness, were excluded from the “ring fence” that protected the NHS budget during austerity, resulting in avoidable illnesses costing the health service billions of pounds."
Lewis's concluding paragraph is too optimistic though, Johnson and his successors will continue to blame everyone and everything rather than ever accept responsibility. We need a competent opposition very badly at the moment. |  |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 17:23 - Feb 4 with 5470 views | Radlett_blue |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 17:05 - Feb 4 by Darth_Koont |
Why?
We have to get off this mantra that higher taxation is worse for the economy or productivity or investment or whatever. The simple fact is that we have one of the lowest tax takes and public spending as well as one of the lowest growth and productivity levels - at the same time as one of the highest levels of wealth inequality and child poverty.
What are we getting wrong and why are we being out performed on so many measures? We're watching structural weaknesses develop in our economy and society but still can't admit that maybe we're going about things the wrong way. |
You seemed to be suggesting that this policy should have been put in place in the midst of the financial crisis, which would have been crackers at the time.
In principle, I think that inequality is too high in Britain which is partly why we seem a more divided country than I can remember, but confiscatory taxation will not redress the balance in anything other than the short term.
All the developed West is suffering from low growth, which is probably here to stay so yes, we need to get used to the fact that living standards will not continue to rise. But no politician is likely to say that. |  |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:27 - Feb 4 with 5429 views | Darth_Koont |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 17:23 - Feb 4 by Radlett_blue |
You seemed to be suggesting that this policy should have been put in place in the midst of the financial crisis, which would have been crackers at the time.
In principle, I think that inequality is too high in Britain which is partly why we seem a more divided country than I can remember, but confiscatory taxation will not redress the balance in anything other than the short term.
All the developed West is suffering from low growth, which is probably here to stay so yes, we need to get used to the fact that living standards will not continue to rise. But no politician is likely to say that. |
Not perhaps at exactly that moment, no. But then we borrow against future tax receipts if necessary - even though national debt on its own isn't a major problem. Or we just do it from the start and change our thinking that tax and spending are costs to be minimized but savings and investments to be made for the good of our country.
I think you should look at our metrics compared to the rest of Europe and the OECD. We compare to southern European countries like Spain, Italy and even Greece who have all brought problems on themselves on top of the global financial crash.
And that's before we leave the EU ...
It's pretty clear successive governments don't know what they're doing any more to actively support and grow the economy or distribute any benefits. If it wasn't for London as a global financial centre and attracting/retaining major multinationals we'd be even worse. But that's not really helping a metalworker in Doncaster, a teacher in Birmingham, a nurse in Bristol, an unemployed teenager in Stockport... that takes bit more than "laissez faire" government. |  |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:30 - Feb 4 with 5424 views | LeoMuff |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 17:17 - Feb 4 by mos |
In a time of high unemployment, low output and negative economic growth (measured by GDP change per year), I’m not sure increasing costs for firms/businesses would necessarily be the go to plan to combat the problems stated... More workers would be made unemployed and output would only decrease, this would only create a vicious cycle of decline whereby the consumer market would suffer from the lack of spending due to higher unemployment and investment would also decline.
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Yes let google, Starbucks, amazon pay less tax than some individuals is of course the answer, as your primary school economics theory has proven. |  |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:45 - Feb 4 with 5402 views | mos |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:30 - Feb 4 by LeoMuff |
Yes let google, Starbucks, amazon pay less tax than some individuals is of course the answer, as your primary school economics theory has proven. |
Completely ignoring my argument and resorting to pettiness... |  |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:49 - Feb 4 with 5398 views | Oxford_Blue |
What was your alternative?
Keep borrowing and spending even more? Brilliant. |  | | |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:51 - Feb 4 with 5394 views | vapour_trail |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:49 - Feb 4 by Oxford_Blue |
What was your alternative?
Keep borrowing and spending even more? Brilliant. |
You’ve made up his alternative for him and called it brilliant.
I hope you have better tactics than this in court sunshine. |  |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 19:33 - Feb 4 with 5351 views | LeoMuff |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:45 - Feb 4 by mos |
Completely ignoring my argument and resorting to pettiness... |
I disagree with your argument, so your ok for Example with amazon paying 4.2m in tax on £4bn of sales in the uk in 2013 ? Beacause paying their fair share might slow economic growth ?
So we should slash our social care, NhS, disabled allowances instead ? | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 19:46 - Feb 4 with 5331 views | jas0999 |
... and yet people still voted for them, rather than Corbyn. What on earth does that say about the state of Labour under Corbyn? | | | |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 19:52 - Feb 4 with 5323 views | LeoMuff |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 19:46 - Feb 4 by jas0999 |
... and yet people still voted for them, rather than Corbyn. What on earth does that say about the state of Labour under Corbyn? |
Unfortunately it means the Mail, express, telegraph, and sun are widely read and believed. They have already started on Starmer and he hasn’t got the gig yet.
You only need to look at brexit, every financial expert, business leader, saying this is economically a bad idea, while the evidence points to migrants being net benefit and still a majority wanted it. | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 19:54 - Feb 4 with 5318 views | noggin |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 19:46 - Feb 4 by jas0999 |
... and yet people still voted for them, rather than Corbyn. What on earth does that say about the state of Labour under Corbyn? |
That the average working class brit is very gullible. |  |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 20:47 - Feb 4 with 5280 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:51 - Feb 4 by vapour_trail |
You’ve made up his alternative for him and called it brilliant.
I hope you have better tactics than this in court sunshine. |
No, it’s a question. | | | |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 21:19 - Feb 4 with 5267 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 14:50 - Feb 4 by lowhouseblue |
it's not misleading. public spending has risen in real terms throughout. from 1997 to 2010 it rose dramatically quickly in real terms. from 2010 onwards it has risen slowly in real terms. from 2010 it may well not have risen quickly enough given demand - that is the essence of austerity. but if you take the whole longer period from 1997 public spending has risen in real terms at an historically high rate. |
Public spending hasn’t risen in real terms since 2010. It’s in black and white in the figures: 18/19 figure is exactly the same as 10/11, but only because of a small rise in 18/19. https://www.statista.com/statistics/298465/public-sector-expenditure-united-king We’ve had 4 annual drops is real terms spending over that period. |  |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 21:35 - Feb 4 with 5253 views | No9 |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 10:33 - Feb 4 by Guthrum |
I really ought not to just blanket-condemn hedge fund managers. It's more an archetype of those who have borrowed other people's money to gamble with (often using family or parental friendship networks), siphoned off enough to make themselves very rich (regardless of results) and now look down with distain upon the poor. |
Although one HFM did boast on TV that he had bought Johnson for £50k now Johnson had to deliver | | | |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 21:48 - Feb 4 with 5243 views | Guthrum |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 21:35 - Feb 4 by No9 |
Although one HFM did boast on TV that he had bought Johnson for £50k now Johnson had to deliver |
He being the kind I was thinking of. |  |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 22:21 - Feb 4 with 5220 views | mos |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 19:33 - Feb 4 by LeoMuff |
I disagree with your argument, so your ok for Example with amazon paying 4.2m in tax on £4bn of sales in the uk in 2013 ? Beacause paying their fair share might slow economic growth ?
So we should slash our social care, NhS, disabled allowances instead ? |
You’ve assumed that... Clearly Amazon and etc should be paying tax, rather than avoiding it through whatever they do, however these are just a few examples that do not represent all British businesses. Taxing already tax paying corporations/firms will reduce their output, in a recession where output is low and unemployment is high, I don’t think raising tax on these employing firms is a good idea at all.
A certain amount of spending cuts is necessary when in such a scenario such as the financial crisis of 2008-9, as said we had borrowed so much that we had a large and unsustainable national debt that could cripple the population in the years to come if it was not dealt with. Austerity was aimed to solve that problem, which it has. | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 22:31 - Feb 4 with 5215 views | LeoMuff |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 22:21 - Feb 4 by mos |
You’ve assumed that... Clearly Amazon and etc should be paying tax, rather than avoiding it through whatever they do, however these are just a few examples that do not represent all British businesses. Taxing already tax paying corporations/firms will reduce their output, in a recession where output is low and unemployment is high, I don’t think raising tax on these employing firms is a good idea at all.
A certain amount of spending cuts is necessary when in such a scenario such as the financial crisis of 2008-9, as said we had borrowed so much that we had a large and unsustainable national debt that could cripple the population in the years to come if it was not dealt with. Austerity was aimed to solve that problem, which it has. |
We will have to disagree on this one, it’s rather debatable what austerity has achieved if anything other than the decimation of services and lives, mostly I believe from an desire to shrink this area of state from an ideological point rather than anything else.
Plenty of countries did not take this route during what was a global crisis | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 22:39 - Feb 4 with 5200 views | vapour_trail |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 22:31 - Feb 4 by LeoMuff |
We will have to disagree on this one, it’s rather debatable what austerity has achieved if anything other than the decimation of services and lives, mostly I believe from an desire to shrink this area of state from an ideological point rather than anything else.
Plenty of countries did not take this route during what was a global crisis |
Quite.
Austerity was also ideologically trained on those least resilient to the consequences, and so osborne and Cameron thought, least likely to vote for them.
Then Brexit.
And so they voted for Johnson anyway. | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 07:59 - Feb 5 with 5115 views | HARRY10 |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 22:21 - Feb 4 by mos |
You’ve assumed that... Clearly Amazon and etc should be paying tax, rather than avoiding it through whatever they do, however these are just a few examples that do not represent all British businesses. Taxing already tax paying corporations/firms will reduce their output, in a recession where output is low and unemployment is high, I don’t think raising tax on these employing firms is a good idea at all.
A certain amount of spending cuts is necessary when in such a scenario such as the financial crisis of 2008-9, as said we had borrowed so much that we had a large and unsustainable national debt that could cripple the population in the years to come if it was not dealt with. Austerity was aimed to solve that problem, which it has. |
We had not 'borrowed so much' that is a bare faced lie. Look at the borrowing figures and national debt up to the crash.
That this nonsense keeps getting trotted out is a testament to how willing 'fellow travelers' are to regugitate misinformation when it suits their cause. You need not look much further to see why the treferendum vote went the way it did.
Auterity was little more than a cloak, underpinned by the above lie, to shift responsibilty from the state to charities. The Big Society it was laughingly called. Where that now ?
I expect those with real wealth to want to pursue this path, but it is the clueless 'useful idiots' who spew out this nonsense that are the real threat. Those who despite all evidence will still happily trot out this stuff.
A sort of latter day Parrot Sketch. "Nah, it was all that borrowing, honest guv'. | | | |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:54 - Feb 5 with 5056 views | mos |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 07:59 - Feb 5 by HARRY10 |
We had not 'borrowed so much' that is a bare faced lie. Look at the borrowing figures and national debt up to the crash.
That this nonsense keeps getting trotted out is a testament to how willing 'fellow travelers' are to regugitate misinformation when it suits their cause. You need not look much further to see why the treferendum vote went the way it did.
Auterity was little more than a cloak, underpinned by the above lie, to shift responsibilty from the state to charities. The Big Society it was laughingly called. Where that now ?
I expect those with real wealth to want to pursue this path, but it is the clueless 'useful idiots' who spew out this nonsense that are the real threat. Those who despite all evidence will still happily trot out this stuff.
A sort of latter day Parrot Sketch. "Nah, it was all that borrowing, honest guv'. |
Explain this:
There was an enormous budget deficit, I don’t see how anyone can really avoid this fact... | |
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| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 19:49 - Feb 5 with 5037 views | HARRY10 |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 18:54 - Feb 5 by mos |
Explain this:
There was an enormous budget deficit, I don’t see how anyone can really avoid this fact... |
It was a deficit caused by an external crash. It required short term borrowing not a policy of long term destruction. One that even the Chancellpr finally admitted in 2018.
The narrative that has been regularly trotted out is that Gordon Brown borrowed and borrowed again until the clever Tories over and were forced to make cuts to pay off that borrowing. That has been the myth that is still peddled.
This from a year or so back might help to explain it and saves me trying
"We can see that the worsening public finances during the global recession reflected a collapse in income rather than high expenditure.
Similarly, the improved finances in 2010-11 came on the back of a significant revival in government revenues, not from a reduction in government expenditure.
So when the coalition government came to power in May 2010, the then Chancellor George Osborne actually inherited recovering growth and improving public sector finances.
Instead of building on this growth, Osborne introduced huge cuts to government expenditure in an attempt to bring the public debt and deficit under control. The plan failed almost immediately.
As income collapsed in 2012-13 improvements to the deficit were reversed, forcing Osborne to retreat on his spending cuts.
Growth eventually returned thanks in no small part to Bank of England subsidies to the financial sector, but progress was very slow.
In the end it took the Treasury twice as long as to balance the books than he expected.
And because it took so long, the government missed all its targets for reducing the public debt.
Osborne’s mistake was to ignore the link between increasing spending to boost economic growth and the improved government revenues and public finances that result.
It’s taken eight years, but the penny seems to have finally dropped for his successor.
The Chancellor now needs to embrace the logic of his newfound enlightenment.
He must understand that increased government spending will boost the economy and tackle the ongoing wage growth crisis, and that this will bring higher tax revenues to help cut the deficit.
So far Philip Hammond’s approach to the public finances has at least been better than his predecessors.
Upon taking office Hammond junked the ludicrous balanced budget legislation, and there was no ‘punishment Budget’ after the EU referendum.
And in his latest Budget, he didn’t let a small deficit stand in the way of much needed extra spending for the NHS.
But there’s still a long way to go to undo the damage wrought by eight years of austerity, and last month’s Budget barely scratched the surface."{/b}
I would suggest that you and other deluded souls have a look at why it is the percentage of the GDP that is of an interest as far as public borrowing goes. You might understand then how Osborne got it so badly wrong and had to back pedal so much once it became so evident.
In simple terms if you borrow £20,000 when you earn £200,000 it is managable, but not if you only earn £20,000. It was unfettered lending (oppoaed by Brown) that caused the crash, and it was Osborne's incompetence that has allowed that crash to continue to blight the UK economy. | | | |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 23:53 - Feb 5 with 4980 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Got to agree, shame on Labour for digging the financial hole on 11:42 - Feb 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
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Not this again! Ffs it was a joke |  | | |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 00:00 - Feb 6 with 4966 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Good piece on the state of Britain after 10 years of austerity on 14:59 - Feb 4 by Radlett_blue |
I wouldn't find it hard to cut public spending. I'd start with abolishing or dramatically reducing overseas aid. This was over £14 billion in 2017, including giving "aid" to countries such as India, which feel able to afford expensive space programmes. |
Aid to India is being phased out so you can drop that excuze for stopping aid to other countries | | | |
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