| The Biggest Con this season 09:56 - Mar 1 with 5957 views | Alexwaddell |
That we have "the best squad in the league"
This has been proved to be an utter fallacy. The players do not have the skill, or the commitment (with one or two exceptions) for league one never mind the Championship.
Throughout the course of the season numerous different formations have been tried with numerous different players with the same result...abject failure.
If we have to resort to hoofing the ball up the park we need a big target man, a la Simpson, rather than the vertically challenged forwards we employ.
On the bright side I reckon Town would be top of the league if it was 5 aside...but unfortunately it isn't and you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear. |  |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 12:51 - Mar 1 with 1445 views | Chrisd |
| The Biggest Con this season on 11:22 - Mar 1 by LankHenners |
Why so binary? The players make individual mistakes of course but when the same mistakes at both ends of the pitch are repeated time and time again over a lengthy period you have to question the ability of the manager and coaching staff. That’s applied everywhere, not just here.
I’ve not said anyone else is exempt from criticism or that Lambert is directly responsible for individual errors. I’m not sure what the problem is either with criticising a manager who’s overseen 4 wins in 23 or whatever it is. |
Good point, but you'd also question the players if it's happening time and again too, if they are deemed good enough, they need to be accountable. What are they doing to change it? For example, Norwood working on one on ones, has he been taking time to work on that in the afternoons or Norris working on his decision-making when the ball is played through or over the top of our defence? It's like you aren't allowed to question the players, the blame is solely at the manager's door and no one else. | |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 12:59 - Mar 1 with 1433 views | LankHenners |
| The Biggest Con this season on 12:51 - Mar 1 by Chrisd |
Good point, but you'd also question the players if it's happening time and again too, if they are deemed good enough, they need to be accountable. What are they doing to change it? For example, Norwood working on one on ones, has he been taking time to work on that in the afternoons or Norris working on his decision-making when the ball is played through or over the top of our defence? It's like you aren't allowed to question the players, the blame is solely at the manager's door and no one else. |
Well that's down to coaching then isn't it. The 'stays for hours after training practicing free kicks' type of stuff you tend to hear only really comes out from or about elite players, or at least those at a high level.
This is league 1, the players need to have things drilled into them. Besides, you're tying yourself in logical knots: if the players are needing to put more of their own time outside of training into working on things then that suggests the actual training isn't particularly effective.
The blame is solely at the manager's door, yes. It's his job to get the most out of the players, regardless of whether individuals are under-performing. |  |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:03 - Mar 1 with 1423 views | Chrisd |
| The Biggest Con this season on 12:59 - Mar 1 by LankHenners |
Well that's down to coaching then isn't it. The 'stays for hours after training practicing free kicks' type of stuff you tend to hear only really comes out from or about elite players, or at least those at a high level.
This is league 1, the players need to have things drilled into them. Besides, you're tying yourself in logical knots: if the players are needing to put more of their own time outside of training into working on things then that suggests the actual training isn't particularly effective.
The blame is solely at the manager's door, yes. It's his job to get the most out of the players, regardless of whether individuals are under-performing. |
No, that's down to the player or players being responsible, having the right attitude and wanting to improve. It might be L1, but they are still professional footballers you aren't dealing with 9 and 10 year olds. Teddy Sherringham always stayed behind after training to work on shooting drills with the apprentices, that was his decision not Cloughie's or his coaching staff. | |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:05 - Mar 1 with 1422 views | bournemouthblue |
| The Biggest Con this season on 10:39 - Mar 1 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Downes, Huws, Bishop, Sears, Garrett, KVY, El Mis, Dobra, Dozzell, Keane, woolf.. all good technical players at this level.
And Jackson has been involved in more goals in this league than anyone apart from Toni.
Not saying it's the best squad in the league, but it's certainly enough to compete at the top end. |
And provided it isn't totally dismantled in the summer window, there is something here to develop at the very least
We lack a targetman in particular and goals from midfield. We have a lot of very talented youngsters who can develop and take us forward for sure but it will take a few seasons of development with them to fully flourish
My main worry in the short term is having the physical muscle to unlock teams when decent passing football becomes ineffective. We don't really have a Plan B at the moment and Plan A has certainly fallen flat on it's face |  |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:12 - Mar 1 with 1406 views | LankHenners |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:03 - Mar 1 by Chrisd |
No, that's down to the player or players being responsible, having the right attitude and wanting to improve. It might be L1, but they are still professional footballers you aren't dealing with 9 and 10 year olds. Teddy Sherringham always stayed behind after training to work on shooting drills with the apprentices, that was his decision not Cloughie's or his coaching staff. |
That's right, famous third division journeyman Teddy Sheringham.
It's league 1, it's not particularly complicated. You've got to do the basic stuff well and if you have added quality like we do then it becomes more of a breeze. That we've done so dismally whilst a very limited group of players like Wycombe's have done so well (though that very factor may ultimately catch up with them) highlights the poor job that the manager has done. | |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:15 - Mar 1 with 1395 views | r2d2 |
| The Biggest Con this season on 10:18 - Mar 1 by bournemouthblue |
They keep trotting that line out and yet as you say, it simply isn't true
It's a good squad at this level, I would suggest probably about the 5th best in the league and yes we have had injuries, none more devastating than KVY.
What we lack is physicality in particular, we have few players who are going to cause headaches for opposition defenders in the air. If you can stop us threading balls in to Jackson and force us to ping balls into the box we soon become ineffective.
I don't think we're a total lost cause by any means, we have improved our ball retention and we generally control possession. That's an improvement on last season but this is looking like more than just a one year project sadly. If we did get up this season, we would be annihilated in the Championship.
We clearly lack a number 9, Will Keane isn't that man and he may still come good but a powerful targetman who can hold the ball up and make a nuisance of themselves is very much lacking.
I also feel we could go with a big physical midfielder to mix things up, look at Rotherham with Crooks, he is a serious handful when he gets into the box.
Midfielders with goals in them in general is another thing we are lacking, perhaps Huws, Nolan and Bishop in time will start to bring this again, they certainly should be chipping in with goals at this level. Judge should get far more goals than he does.
Wingers are particularly lacking so Lambert has abandoned the classic 442 all together.
Dobra and Lankester may well develop into players who can be a handful and chip in with goals.
Rowe and Edwards may still come good, we will see.
Skuse and Chambers aren't getting younger and will need to be succeeded at some point.
The building blocks of a side are there but we probably still need to develop a new spine of the side to take us forward.
Another quality centre back, another quality central midfielder and a targetman.
Wolfy and Downes could be two of those parts but they are our most saleable assets and could be off if we don't go back up this season. That's the real fear of failure for us this season, along with diminishing income which League One brings. |
The squad clearly isnt good enough. |  | | |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:16 - Mar 1 with 1389 views | Herbivore |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:15 - Mar 1 by r2d2 |
The squad clearly isnt good enough. |
It's plenty good enough, it's being managed very poorly. |  |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:38 - Mar 1 with 1369 views | Chrisd |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:12 - Mar 1 by LankHenners |
That's right, famous third division journeyman Teddy Sheringham.
It's league 1, it's not particularly complicated. You've got to do the basic stuff well and if you have added quality like we do then it becomes more of a breeze. That we've done so dismally whilst a very limited group of players like Wycombe's have done so well (though that very factor may ultimately catch up with them) highlights the poor job that the manager has done. |
The point being, if someone like him stays behind and works on his game are our current L1 players not capable? [Post edited 1 Mar 2020 13:40]
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:39 - Mar 1 with 1370 views | Reuser_is_God |
The squad is plenty good enough, we’ve seen enough quality in patches. The fact we’ve not seen it more often & more consistently is a result of abject management. |  |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:42 - Mar 1 with 1354 views | LankHenners |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:38 - Mar 1 by Chrisd |
The point being, if someone like him stays behind and works on his game are our current L1 players not capable? [Post edited 1 Mar 2020 13:40]
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No the opposite would be true - ‘if a league one clogger can work after hours then why can’t Teddy Sheringham’ etc. | |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:43 - Mar 1 with 1353 views | Chrisd |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:39 - Mar 1 by Reuser_is_God |
The squad is plenty good enough, we’ve seen enough quality in patches. The fact we’ve not seen it more often & more consistently is a result of abject management. |
In patches doesn't equate to being good enough. They can do it for short spells in games, to me that's also on the players too. It'll be interesting if NW does come in and we continue to struggle, manager's fault again I suppose? [Post edited 1 Mar 2020 13:45]
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:44 - Mar 1 with 1349 views | Chrisd |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:42 - Mar 1 by LankHenners |
No the opposite would be true - ‘if a league one clogger can work after hours then why can’t Teddy Sheringham’ etc. |
Really not. It's having that 'want or drive' within yourself to be a better player. [Post edited 1 Mar 2020 13:45]
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:45 - Mar 1 with 1348 views | Reuser_is_God |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:43 - Mar 1 by Chrisd |
In patches doesn't equate to being good enough. They can do it for short spells in games, to me that's also on the players too. It'll be interesting if NW does come in and we continue to struggle, manager's fault again I suppose? [Post edited 1 Mar 2020 13:45]
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We won’t struggle if Warnock came in because he’s actually a competent football manager. | |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 13:46 - Mar 1 with 1337 views | Chrisd |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:45 - Mar 1 by Reuser_is_God |
We won’t struggle if Warnock came in because he’s actually a competent football manager. |
Say that we do, what then? | |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 14:03 - Mar 1 with 1323 views | LankHenners |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:44 - Mar 1 by Chrisd |
Really not. It's having that 'want or drive' within yourself to be a better player. [Post edited 1 Mar 2020 13:45]
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You picked the example, I went with it as it’s a poor one that exposed your argument.
It’s not that simple and whilst there may be players who are playing within themselves, then it’s the manager’s job to sort it out. And if they’re really playing badly he shouldn’t be picking them. | |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 15:39 - Mar 1 with 1300 views | Chrisd |
| The Biggest Con this season on 14:03 - Mar 1 by LankHenners |
You picked the example, I went with it as it’s a poor one that exposed your argument.
It’s not that simple and whilst there may be players who are playing within themselves, then it’s the manager’s job to sort it out. And if they’re really playing badly he shouldn’t be picking them. |
It's a 'poor' example to highlight players working on areas of their game to improve or gain more confidence? Dear me, you really are missing the point. For all our 'supposed' quality, perhaps PL is still picking those same players because the depth isn't there in our squad? Although we're meant to have the best in the league. Yes, of course we have! | |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 15:55 - Mar 1 with 1280 views | LankHenners |
| The Biggest Con this season on 15:39 - Mar 1 by Chrisd |
It's a 'poor' example to highlight players working on areas of their game to improve or gain more confidence? Dear me, you really are missing the point. For all our 'supposed' quality, perhaps PL is still picking those same players because the depth isn't there in our squad? Although we're meant to have the best in the league. Yes, of course we have! |
It's a poor example because it directly contradicts the point you were making. You're pretty clearly biased in this as you're tying yourself in knots trying to absolve the manager of the football team of any responsibility for the situation we're in whilst claiming it's all the players' fault because they don't 'want' it enough due to not taking it upon themselves to do extra sessions outside of regular training.
If you look at our squad objectively in the context of the league we're in and can't see that it's a top squad at this level and furthermore think that just above mid-table is the natural ability-level then you're beyond help. | |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 16:07 - Mar 1 with 1258 views | Chrisd |
| The Biggest Con this season on 15:55 - Mar 1 by LankHenners |
It's a poor example because it directly contradicts the point you were making. You're pretty clearly biased in this as you're tying yourself in knots trying to absolve the manager of the football team of any responsibility for the situation we're in whilst claiming it's all the players' fault because they don't 'want' it enough due to not taking it upon themselves to do extra sessions outside of regular training.
If you look at our squad objectively in the context of the league we're in and can't see that it's a top squad at this level and furthermore think that just above mid-table is the natural ability-level then you're beyond help. |
I’m not sure you actually read what’s posted and just carry on with you own crusade regardless of points raised? You keep ploughing on. Yes, of course I am and the fact that you don’t feel that the players have any accountability whatsoever, is just utterly ridiculous and plain daft. [Post edited 1 Mar 2020 16:10]
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| The Biggest Con this season on 16:15 - Mar 1 with 1250 views | BlueBadger |
| The Biggest Con this season on 13:05 - Mar 1 by bournemouthblue |
And provided it isn't totally dismantled in the summer window, there is something here to develop at the very least
We lack a targetman in particular and goals from midfield. We have a lot of very talented youngsters who can develop and take us forward for sure but it will take a few seasons of development with them to fully flourish
My main worry in the short term is having the physical muscle to unlock teams when decent passing football becomes ineffective. We don't really have a Plan B at the moment and Plan A has certainly fallen flat on it's face |
Do we have an actual plan A yet? |  |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 16:16 - Mar 1 with 1245 views | LankHenners |
| The Biggest Con this season on 16:07 - Mar 1 by Chrisd |
I’m not sure you actually read what’s posted and just carry on with you own crusade regardless of points raised? You keep ploughing on. Yes, of course I am and the fact that you don’t feel that the players have any accountability whatsoever, is just utterly ridiculous and plain daft. [Post edited 1 Mar 2020 16:10]
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As I've already covered, I don't feel that at all. If you want to defend Lambert to the hilt that's up to you but your faith is misguided. | |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 16:21 - Mar 1 with 1231 views | Chrisd |
| The Biggest Con this season on 16:16 - Mar 1 by LankHenners |
As I've already covered, I don't feel that at all. If you want to defend Lambert to the hilt that's up to you but your faith is misguided. |
I’m not, as previously stated. [Post edited 1 Mar 2020 17:12]
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| The Biggest Con this season on 16:54 - Mar 1 with 1217 views | pistonbroke |
| The Biggest Con this season on 10:39 - Mar 1 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Downes, Huws, Bishop, Sears, Garrett, KVY, El Mis, Dobra, Dozzell, Keane, woolf.. all good technical players at this level.
And Jackson has been involved in more goals in this league than anyone apart from Toni.
Not saying it's the best squad in the league, but it's certainly enough to compete at the top end. |
For are start we are competing at the top end , trouble is we need more aggression , fancy dan football will not get you promoted in league 1 , you need nasty bast ards at this level , players who other players don’t like to play against , players that get in your face , players that wind the opposition up , players that will hurt the opposition physically , we have one player that gets in the oppositions face , Norwood horrible little sh it to play against , maybe dobra could be like this to , the other players are like fancy dans ,to nice | | | |
| The Biggest Con this season on 08:55 - Mar 2 with 1153 views | FrimleyBlue |
We have plenty of players that would walk into another league 1 side.
The problem is as a team it doesn't work.
Our strikers are pretty poor. But put a Jackson alongside a proper target man and he'd flourish
Put a downes next to a Skuse of 5 years ago...
Judge being asked what ever Lambert needs for that game.
Woolfy is learning his trade but is learning from chambers who's lost his ability to defend properly
Norwood needs 100 shots at goal before scoring.. we don't create enough chances
Etc etc
We have the players. Unfortunately they all need better players with them. |  |
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| The Biggest Con this season on 09:42 - Mar 2 with 1144 views | daisyisabaddog |
| The Biggest Con this season on 10:41 - Mar 1 by Bluebell |
The players are good enough. They proved that in the first 14 weeks of the season.
Ok injuries have been hard but how come we can beat the likes of Burton 4-1 (who drew 1-1 v Peterborough yesterday) but can't beat Blackpool?
Sloppy playing, players out of position and Lambert not having a clue how to get the team to play 2 halves of a game like they want to win it! |
The first few weeks of the season were a free hit. No one had played us before. Once the opposition worked us out we didn't have a Plan B. There is a very good reason our possession statistics are so high. It's because the opposition are quite happy to let us have the ball and take it off us in the final third. | | | |
| The Biggest Con this season on 09:46 - Mar 2 with 1138 views | jobsworthblue |
| The Biggest Con this season on 12:50 - Mar 1 by Herbivore |
If players are consistently under performing but still being selected then that is on the manager. |
I reflect on this season’s deficiencies and it brings me back to Sky cyclings marginal gains approach
I don’t think they are far off, just a tweak here and there and Lambert will have the winning formula.
He needs to be given time to do the tweaks |  | | |
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