| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. 23:58 - Mar 19 with 4771 views | Girthyguy |
I'm sure it's been talked about but seeing Boris come out and say we can 'turn the tide' in 12 weeks is utter cr@p. China have have had this virus for well over 3 months and have 3000 plus deaths. Italy today surpassed China's death toll today. But we are expecting 20000 deaths as a great result. We have just over 140 so far. How on earth we will be turning the tide in 12 weeks is beyond me. Our slow and awful approach to this makes me and I'm sure a lot of others believe we are going to lose so many more lives because of our half assed approach. |  | | |  |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 11:30 - Mar 20 with 729 views | StokieBlue |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 11:23 - Mar 20 by eireblue |
To be somewhat fair, an element of what the government is doing is informed by experts.
But they are also balancing other factors, and deciding what are the best methods.
Some of these are political.
For example, I have heard from the PM and Matt Hancock, repeated use of phrases along the lines of, if people follow our advice, then things will get better quicker.
The advice being, do distancing, don’t do anything unnecessary.
If all people followed that advice, which is optimal, then there would be no customers in pubs.
A more optimal way to get to the same place quicker, is to close pubs.
I think that logic is sound.
Therefore some people may feel it worth wondering or questioning, certain government decisions.
Especially since the medical experts, don’t provide qualification, what they say is explicit. The sooner transmission of the virus is slowed down, the more likely a better outcome will happen.
The government can make choices on how to implement policies to drive that outcome. |
Yes, that is all fair and reasonable.
What is not particularly reasonable is criticising every single government decision without context or use of all the available information and often putting a political spin on it.
That is happening rather a lot on here over the last few weeks.
SB |  | | |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 11:37 - Mar 20 with 717 views | BloomBlue |
More than 47,500 men are diagnosed with prostate cancer every year in the - that's 129 men every day. Every 45 minutes one man dies from prostate cancer — that's more than 11,500 men every year. |  | | |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 11:37 - Mar 20 with 716 views | MarinerisGod |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 11:12 - Mar 20 by Ely_Blue |
The difference being that you cannot catch Cancer or HIV by just sitting next to the bloke in the pub or by opening the newsagents shop door!
Just a little thing to show you some more disproportionate information! |
You say that, but yes you can get cancer from air pollution and a variety of things that are perfectly fine socially, weed killers, fuel, cured meat, sugar. My point is, that wide spread panic isn't useful in those instances and it is isn't helpful in this.
This virus is obviously a bad thing and is spreading at speed, the stats and facts so far suggest that most people are still more in danger of getting cancer, but apparently that isn't reason to panic about cancer. So why the mad panic in stores etc. The media. They love it.
Love the use of ! very pointed. I prefer facts ;) |  |
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| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 11:39 - Mar 20 with 715 views | StokieBlue |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 11:37 - Mar 20 by BloomBlue |
More than 47,500 men are diagnosed with prostate cancer every year in the - that's 129 men every day. Every 45 minutes one man dies from prostate cancer — that's more than 11,500 men every year. |
That's very sad but it has absolutely nothing to do with the problem we are facing at the moment.
Getting rather sick of the bizarre whatabouterry.
SB | | | |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 12:58 - Mar 20 with 662 views | monytowbray |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 10:03 - Mar 20 by StokieBlue |
Do you think the French are mad? They have done 11,000 tests in total - we did 6,800 yesterday alone and are ramping up to 10,000 then 25,000.
You made a big point about testing which wasn't really reflected in the reality of the numbers - an example of you criticising the government regardless of what they do.
SB |
They've also made better steps to limit transmission though.
We're sorta doing not enough of everything. |  |
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| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 13:03 - Mar 20 with 655 views | Ely_Blue |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 11:23 - Mar 20 by eireblue |
To be somewhat fair, an element of what the government is doing is informed by experts.
But they are also balancing other factors, and deciding what are the best methods.
Some of these are political.
For example, I have heard from the PM and Matt Hancock, repeated use of phrases along the lines of, if people follow our advice, then things will get better quicker.
The advice being, do distancing, don’t do anything unnecessary.
If all people followed that advice, which is optimal, then there would be no customers in pubs.
A more optimal way to get to the same place quicker, is to close pubs.
I think that logic is sound.
Therefore some people may feel it worth wondering or questioning, certain government decisions.
Especially since the medical experts, don’t provide qualification, what they say is explicit. The sooner transmission of the virus is slowed down, the more likely a better outcome will happen.
The government can make choices on how to implement policies to drive that outcome. |
It wouldn’t surprise me if (and I’m sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong as I will openly admit I’m no expert) there is no legal way that the government can force restaurants, pubs etc to close, and in doing so now they would face some sort of legal challenge. I do however understand that isn’t the government looking to pass a Covid 19 bill through parliament to give them more powers, most of which they hope they never need to use? |  |
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| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 13:16 - Mar 20 with 646 views | bournemouthblue |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 00:30 - Mar 20 by Churchman |
I can’t see the ‘tide’ turning in 12 weeks. If he promises to resign if it doesn’t I might believe him. But then tub o lard keeps telling us there is no food shortages. Where I live the shelves are stripped bare. End of. Of course there is a food shortage. I suspect they’re scared to admit it.
We are told they want to keep companies going and people in employment, but clearly from this message board alone, people are already losing their jobs. This will worsen as supply chains collapse. Words, promises as nothing tangible.
A week a go I thought BJ had a good grip on things. I was wrong. He, wingnut and the rest have no idea and tbh, I’m not sure the so called experts have either, given how often they keep telling us hthat this is a new virus bla blah blah. They are chasing the problem and resorting to palliative comments like 12 weeks. |
I was made redundant at the end of February which seems an age away now
I've had several employers interested but they have vanished since the start of this week. I've switched my focus to key service areas now, where I'm sure a lot of people are now looking. |  |
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| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 13:50 - Mar 20 with 629 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 09:51 - Mar 20 by monytowbray |
The rest of the world are looking at us like we’re mad. Because we are. |
SAGE have published the scientific evidence which supports their response.
Once you’ve read the link I look forward to reading your coherent response to each point made, The evidence you have to back up your position on each and the professional qualifications you hold that entitles your position to be taken as a serious rebuttal to the CMO and CSA.
[Post edited 20 Mar 2020 13:53]
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| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 13:56 - Mar 20 with 624 views | longtimefan |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 10:03 - Mar 20 by StokieBlue |
Do you think the French are mad? They have done 11,000 tests in total - we did 6,800 yesterday alone and are ramping up to 10,000 then 25,000.
You made a big point about testing which wasn't really reflected in the reality of the numbers - an example of you criticising the government regardless of what they do.
SB |
Actually I think the number of tests yesterday was even higher. 64,621 was the total number annouced yesterday compared to 56,221 the previous day, which i make 8400. | | | |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 14:09 - Mar 20 with 619 views | monytowbray |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 13:50 - Mar 20 by GlasgowBlue |
SAGE have published the scientific evidence which supports their response.
Once you’ve read the link I look forward to reading your coherent response to each point made, The evidence you have to back up your position on each and the professional qualifications you hold that entitles your position to be taken as a serious rebuttal to the CMO and CSA.
[Post edited 20 Mar 2020 13:53]
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I do plan to actually read it. Because we should be able to.
You don’t need a scientific qualification to see other experts and nations, both in healthcare and in the NHS, pointing out issues with our measures though. [Post edited 20 Mar 2020 14:11]
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| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 15:49 - Mar 20 with 587 views | jimmyvet |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 10:20 - Mar 20 by StokieBlue |
It would be nice if you occasionally answered questions put to you.
Are the French mad? Do you concede your posts about testing were unfair and driven by the fact you just want to criticise the government?
The general public aren't qualified to interpret the esoterics of the modelling and cast a judgement. It would just be used as another stick to beat them with. They are clearly changing plans as the situation develops, that is not the same as making it up as they go along. I hope they do publish the model soon along with a simple explanation. They do have a lot on their plates at the moment.
I've said multiple times what things they could have done better and what they need to improve - I agree there are plenty of things they can improve on. However your attitude of constantly criticising everything then not rolling back when presented with evidence to the contrary really isn't helping things.
Not sure I like your last line to be honest.
SB |
SB seriously you are a bright articulate individual why are you wasting your breath on here trying to reason with that, save yourself for some sensible reasoned debate don’t waste your time. | | | |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 16:16 - Mar 20 with 567 views | monytowbray |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 15:49 - Mar 20 by jimmyvet |
SB seriously you are a bright articulate individual why are you wasting your breath on here trying to reason with that, save yourself for some sensible reasoned debate don’t waste your time. |
One major London hospital is already out of critical care capacity. This is unfortunately only the start.
Yes, it falls at the feet of the government. | |
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| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 16:24 - Mar 20 with 563 views | eireblue |
| 20k Deaths in UK a good outcome from coronavirus. on 13:50 - Mar 20 by GlasgowBlue |
SAGE have published the scientific evidence which supports their response.
Once you’ve read the link I look forward to reading your coherent response to each point made, The evidence you have to back up your position on each and the professional qualifications you hold that entitles your position to be taken as a serious rebuttal to the CMO and CSA.
[Post edited 20 Mar 2020 13:53]
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Two of the things I found interesting
Provide clear and transparent reasons for different strategies: The public need to understand the purpose of the Government’s policy, why the UK approach differs to other countries and how resources are being allocated. SPI-B agreed that government should prioritise messaging that explains clearly why certain actions are being taken, ahead of messaging designed solely for reassuring the public.
Maybe some of Callis’ and others lack of confidence is due in some part to lack of transparency on why the Government has a different strategy.
Maybe Johnson hasn’t read the last part of that, re reassurance and his bluster.
There are other parts mentioning transparency and clear expectation setting.
Also, there is mention of an expectation of altruism being demonstrated. I have not yet come across talk about dangers of supply change and hoarding behaviour.
But that maybe because of the first few sentences of this paragraph.
The coronavirus outbreak is a unique challenge. Identifying an evidence base from which to make behavioural science recommendations is difficult. This is made harder because there is evidence to show that how people respond to infectious disease outbreaks differs between countries [1,2]. While there is evidence from the swine flu outbreak, the current context is different and it is not clear how well the evidence translates. Many comments from SPI-B are by necessity based on members’ knowledge of theory and evidence from different, albeit related, contexts
Those couple of things considered, maybe the government and especially the PM should be following the advice, on clarity and transparency.
And if people of an anxious disposition are still a little anxious, maybe that is understandable, given the bluster of Boris. |  | | |
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