| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... 02:16 - Jun 2 with 7031 views | SpruceMoose |
...should he lose November's election?
Judging from his performance today where he threatened American citizens with their own military and tear gassed peaceful protestors, and judging from the performance of his goon squad this week, it's a no from me.
His remarks this evening are here for those who are interested in being terrified:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?472684-1/president-deploy-military-states-halt-vio [Post edited 2 Jun 2020 3:02]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:20 - Jun 2 with 1292 views | LankHenners |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:15 - Jun 2 by J2BLUE |
Is there a chance Trump's opposition to postal voting might hurt him? Older voters might be more reluctant to go out and vote if the virus is still circulating? |
I would think they wouldn't particularly care but it did amuse me that Trump was going on about postal voting having potential to be rigged as I'd imagine there'd be people in the GOP frantically doing the hand across the throat sign and whispering 'shut up, shut up!'.
Probably just said it so if he does lose he has something 'unfair' to blame it on. |  |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:22 - Jun 2 with 1287 views | SpruceMoose |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 09:59 - Jun 2 by LankHenners |
You said it yourself - he lost the popular vote pretty comprehensively last time but won in the right places to push the electoral college vote in his favour, which is what he’ll try and do again this time. He’s not against someone as unlikable as Hilary Clinton this time but having Biden as the alternative hardly inspires enthusiasm to vote.
You’d like to think all this would spur people to vote against him but in reality it won’t matter and the election will come down to whether he can convince a similar group of people as last time that he’ll recover the economy and Make America Great Again about 2 weeks before the big vote.
He may lose some ‘moderate’ conservative voters but his brand of ultra-Patriotism may inspire a bunch more disillusioned people in poor areas to get behind him. |
Regarding his die hard followers, obviously those aren't in play. Nobody else is winning their vote. But his approval ratings show he's hit a ceiling with those people and there aren't enough of them to win the election off their backs alone. He needs the moderates or those weird Obama/Trump voters to pull it off.
Now, if anyone watched the police teargassing people on their own property last night, and didn't know for certain in their heart that it was deeply wrong and that it would never happen under a Biden presidency then they're getting the country they deserve should they vote Trump.
I get the problems with Biden, I really do, but as I've always said, it's bigger than that. We need a return to sanity before we can tackle those large structural societal problemsm This is life or death. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:23 - Jun 2 with 1279 views | Libero |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:19 - Jun 2 by Chutney |
Well, firstly, to say there's a 100% chance of him winning is simply nonsense, but lets assume that was an expression for dramatic effect rather than a statistical proposition, so forgetting that for a second, I do think he's in trouble this time around (hopefully).
Given the slender victory at the last election, it's fair to assume it'll be relatively tight this time around again, as suggested in just about every indicator from polls to odds. Couple that with the deep rooted negative sentiment towards Clinton at the last election, which played a huge part in winning it for Trump. He won't benefit from that this time around. Memories are short too, his handling of this has been a disaster, these latest events won't have helped. Of course there's going to be that core that'll vote for him regardless, but the swathes of middle voters can and will swing. It won't take a lot. I have family in Illinois who voted Trump at the last election, and have no intention of doing so again. They're not alone. |
Clearly I was using hyperbole, nothing is 100% certain in life.
Yeah, all fair points in your second paragraph, I just feel it completely ignores the moment in time that we are in where facts, reason, rationale and even reality mean next to nothing. |  | | |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:25 - Jun 2 with 1269 views | SpruceMoose |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 11:07 - Jun 2 by Libero |
Again, very good logical points but are BAME voters really going to get behind Joe Biden?!
If it was someone of the ilk of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez I can imagine the kind of potential scenario you're laying out happening, but I cannot see huge numbers of BAME people voting for yet another old white rich dude with moderate democrat values. |
Biden's popularity with black voters was what won him the Dem nomination. They'll turn out for him. Young progressives are his soft spot. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:25 - Jun 2 with 1266 views | Libero |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:20 - Jun 2 by LankHenners |
I would think they wouldn't particularly care but it did amuse me that Trump was going on about postal voting having potential to be rigged as I'd imagine there'd be people in the GOP frantically doing the hand across the throat sign and whispering 'shut up, shut up!'.
Probably just said it so if he does lose he has something 'unfair' to blame it on. |
I think that was a purposeful comment by Trump in typical style to muddy the waters, he knows that's an option and is hiding in plain sight. | | | |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:29 - Jun 2 with 1239 views | Libero |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:25 - Jun 2 by SpruceMoose |
Biden's popularity with black voters was what won him the Dem nomination. They'll turn out for him. Young progressives are his soft spot. |
Aye, fully aware of the demographics but those are BAME voters already engaged with the system, in order to have a chance of overturning Trump and his dirty tricks you're going to need a substantial number of individuals not currently engaged to become engaged and I just don't see Biden and a BAME sidekick resonating to that effect with those who are disenfrancised.
Just my opinion, I hope I'm wrong. | | | |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:29 - Jun 2 with 1239 views | SpruceMoose |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:15 - Jun 2 by J2BLUE |
Is there a chance Trump's opposition to postal voting might hurt him? Older voters might be more reluctant to go out and vote if the virus is still circulating? |
Vote by mail is a states issue I believe. He can kick up a stink but if states want it, they have it (as with California).
Not 100% on that, but I believe that's the case. But yeah, vote by mail benefits the Democrats and hurts the GOP. Which is why he hates it. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:31 - Jun 2 with 1229 views | footers |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:29 - Jun 2 by SpruceMoose |
Vote by mail is a states issue I believe. He can kick up a stink but if states want it, they have it (as with California).
Not 100% on that, but I believe that's the case. But yeah, vote by mail benefits the Democrats and hurts the GOP. Which is why he hates it. |
And the Republicans have strong form when it comes to irregularities with postal votes, as in 2000 and 2004. Trump's just being more upfront about it is all. |  |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:34 - Jun 2 with 1221 views | LankHenners |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:22 - Jun 2 by SpruceMoose |
Regarding his die hard followers, obviously those aren't in play. Nobody else is winning their vote. But his approval ratings show he's hit a ceiling with those people and there aren't enough of them to win the election off their backs alone. He needs the moderates or those weird Obama/Trump voters to pull it off.
Now, if anyone watched the police teargassing people on their own property last night, and didn't know for certain in their heart that it was deeply wrong and that it would never happen under a Biden presidency then they're getting the country they deserve should they vote Trump.
I get the problems with Biden, I really do, but as I've always said, it's bigger than that. We need a return to sanity before we can tackle those large structural societal problemsm This is life or death. |
The thing with Trump is that liberals have spent the best part of 4 years going 'well surely this is the thing that will bring him down' and nothing has happened. The events of the past few days, in the middle of a pandemic which has seen enormous levels of unemployment, is the strongest 'well surely this' yet but given what we know about this presidency it'd be naive to think Trump's done.
Would it never happen under a Biden presidency? Police brutality has been happening for years, and indeed there were riots and protests under Obama where police reacted with violence. Trump's rhetoric and emboldening of sadistic cops clearly exacerbates matters but it's hard to make the case that a different president would've been able to stop it.
Which is why I said it'll come down, again, to Patriotism vs rationale. The employment figures and crippled economy is the biggest gap in Trump's armour but he'll try and sell himself as the man who can fix it, which, like before, he only needs to do in the 'right' places. | |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:36 - Jun 2 with 1211 views | SpruceMoose |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:29 - Jun 2 by Libero |
Aye, fully aware of the demographics but those are BAME voters already engaged with the system, in order to have a chance of overturning Trump and his dirty tricks you're going to need a substantial number of individuals not currently engaged to become engaged and I just don't see Biden and a BAME sidekick resonating to that effect with those who are disenfrancised.
Just my opinion, I hope I'm wrong. |
He needs broad appeal. He's obviously not going to win every Black vote, every Hispanic vote, every white boomer vote or every white white young person vote. But he needs to build a coalition to get enough votes from each of the above to get over the line. You're right voter turn out is critical, and voter suppression is a real thing.
It's going to be close, he could lose, but optimism can lead to motivation which can lead to increased voter turn out.
People should also remember, this isn't just about the presidency. This is also about taking the Senate. Mitch McConnell is a cancer on democracy and needs to go. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:40 - Jun 2 with 1197 views | Libero |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:36 - Jun 2 by SpruceMoose |
He needs broad appeal. He's obviously not going to win every Black vote, every Hispanic vote, every white boomer vote or every white white young person vote. But he needs to build a coalition to get enough votes from each of the above to get over the line. You're right voter turn out is critical, and voter suppression is a real thing.
It's going to be close, he could lose, but optimism can lead to motivation which can lead to increased voter turn out.
People should also remember, this isn't just about the presidency. This is also about taking the Senate. Mitch McConnell is a cancer on democracy and needs to go. |
I sincerely admire your optimism and wish you the best, although living in New York I guess you and the majority of those around you have quite a different view to the majority of our transatlantic cousins. | | | |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:42 - Jun 2 with 1187 views | SpruceMoose |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:34 - Jun 2 by LankHenners |
The thing with Trump is that liberals have spent the best part of 4 years going 'well surely this is the thing that will bring him down' and nothing has happened. The events of the past few days, in the middle of a pandemic which has seen enormous levels of unemployment, is the strongest 'well surely this' yet but given what we know about this presidency it'd be naive to think Trump's done.
Would it never happen under a Biden presidency? Police brutality has been happening for years, and indeed there were riots and protests under Obama where police reacted with violence. Trump's rhetoric and emboldening of sadistic cops clearly exacerbates matters but it's hard to make the case that a different president would've been able to stop it.
Which is why I said it'll come down, again, to Patriotism vs rationale. The employment figures and crippled economy is the biggest gap in Trump's armour but he'll try and sell himself as the man who can fix it, which, like before, he only needs to do in the 'right' places. |
I'm not denying that abuses go back a century and more. I'm saying that there is a genuine appetite for change from a massive group of people and they currently have no mechanism for bringing it about.
Even with Biden in charge it would be a fight, it's a massive thing to change the course of. But it's more of a winnable fight with a Democrat in charge. It's a fight that can not be won with Trump in charge.
The reset button needs to be hit. Then progressives need to get busy and actually get stuff done. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:45 - Jun 2 with 1176 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:20 - Jun 2 by Libero |
How typically facetious, considering the topic. |
Christ. Knowing how seriously you take yourself I thought i'd just post something lighthearted. I should have known better... |  |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:46 - Jun 2 with 1166 views | SpruceMoose |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:40 - Jun 2 by Libero |
I sincerely admire your optimism and wish you the best, although living in New York I guess you and the majority of those around you have quite a different view to the majority of our transatlantic cousins. |
Sandwiched between Long Island, Staten Island, Westchester County and large parts of New Jersey you'd be surprised. Plenty of working class and rich conservatives in this area. After all, where do you think the cops live?
Trump supporters are here. They're a definite minority but they're hear. They tend to be less vocal though.
Look, it's going to be incredibly hard but it is a winnable fight. Hard work needs to be done to win. Staying at home and thinking it can't be done definitely won't win it. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:47 - Jun 2 with 1157 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:29 - Jun 2 by SpruceMoose |
Vote by mail is a states issue I believe. He can kick up a stink but if states want it, they have it (as with California).
Not 100% on that, but I believe that's the case. But yeah, vote by mail benefits the Democrats and hurts the GOP. Which is why he hates it. |
It is a state issue (thanks John Oliver) but I wondered if republican governors would bow to pressure from Trump. | |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:51 - Jun 2 with 1135 views | Libero |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:45 - Jun 2 by J2BLUE |
Christ. Knowing how seriously you take yourself I thought i'd just post something lighthearted. I should have known better... |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 13:11 - Jun 2 with 1100 views | SpruceMoose |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 12:47 - Jun 2 by J2BLUE |
It is a state issue (thanks John Oliver) but I wondered if republican governors would bow to pressure from Trump. |
Depends, Republican Governors aren't always in Republican held senate states. Take Massachusetts for example. Obviously that goes the other way round regarding Democratic Governors too. 34 states I believe already have vote by mail anyway.
So, I think it'll be state by state, depending on how secure the Governor is in their position, how the population is split between cities and more rural areas, demographics, many factors.
Trump won't really care if heavily Democratic states have it (beyond the opportunity it presents to lie about voter fraud) as he was never going to win there anyway, but he won't want it in Republican states, or purple states because it will hurt him. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 13:25 - Jun 2 with 1078 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 10:07 - Jun 2 by Pinewoodblue |
Trump only won last time because many Democrats couldn’t bring themselves to vote Hilary Clinton.
This time the choice seems to be between Trump and someone Even older. It is essential the Democrats make the right choice of running mate.
It will all be about getting your support to vote neither candidate will have any 8nteresg in floating voters. The winner will be the side that gets its natural support to vote. |
I'd be astonished if he didn't go for Kamala Harris.
Apparently some backers were lobbying for Elizabeth Warren, but that ticket is more white than Trump/Pence.
Biden needs to find a way of picking up the Bernie voters who might otherwise stay at home |  | | |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 13:31 - Jun 2 with 1066 views | SpruceMoose |
| Anyone genuinely believe that Trump will go peacefully... on 13:25 - Jun 2 by ElderGrizzly |
I'd be astonished if he didn't go for Kamala Harris.
Apparently some backers were lobbying for Elizabeth Warren, but that ticket is more white than Trump/Pence.
Biden needs to find a way of picking up the Bernie voters who might otherwise stay at home |
The issue with Harris is that she was never that popular with black voters. Too long a s a prosecutor perhaps. Certainly some weak spots there at least.
I wouldn't be surprised if he did go for Warren, but I don't think he should. Not just for the reason you provided, but also I think she would be wasted there.
I'm not sure there's an clear favourite from within the names that have been mentioned like Abrams, Baldwin, Duckworth, Warren, Harris and so on. Klobuchar would be a bridge to far for many. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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