| Look at their squads and then compare ours 10:14 - Jul 23 with 16943 views | Chrisd |
Appreciate they will lose some of their players, but when you look at Hull City, Wigan and Charlton now you can argue all three of those sides have squads that are far superior to ours from last season and they all amassed points totals in the mid to high 40s, not a paltry 31 and well adrift of safety. So once again, why did we feel that our squad was too good for L1? I think Joe, posted a thread about our current squad positionally, it highlighted that we have areas of the pitch that lacks: experience, proven quality and depth. It will be even harder this coming season too. |  |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 13:29 - Jul 23 with 4312 views | Herbivore |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 11:27 - Jul 23 by Chrisd |
I'm inclined to have the same line of thinking as you Bournemoutblue. I certainly feel we have some very decent players within our starting XI, but this concept our squad was too good for L1 I still find bizarre. When you go through it, there's a lot that are average L1 players and in some cases that's being overly generous. |
When you go through our squad you have players like Nsiala, Edwards and Nolan who were top performers in
League 1 a couple of years ago who most of us think aren't good enough for a first team place here. You also have numerous players who have only ever played above this level plus several youngsters who will likely spend much of their career playing above this level too. The idea the squad wasn't good enough doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. |  |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 13:30 - Jul 23 with 4315 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
We football fans are so irrational.
Leeds came down with a better squad than anyone.
So did Sheffield United.
Sheffield Wednesday.
Sunderland.
It's not that simple.
As we saw. We finished 11th and had a squad, on paper, that was in the top 2 or 3.
We always assume we will finish 10th with that squad but every other club will walk the league.
Bowyer likely to leave Charlton. Before he arrived they were a shambles. Most of their best players look set to leave.
Wigan are an absolute mess. It may be sorted but they are in admin and will be selling what they can.
Hull have possibly just had the worst half a season of any league side ever. Absolutely pathetic, the fans want the owner out. It's going to be interesting. I could see them going down again I really could. | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 13:32 - Jul 23 with 4314 views | Herbivore |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 13:27 - Jul 23 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
Our squad last was incredibly overrated. I think the attacking additions of Lankester, El Mizouni, Dobra, Bishop add a lot in the final third.
Still need the additions of a left-back and centre-back.
Central areas are flooded already. |
This has reassured me that our squad was plenty good enough and should have gone up. | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 14:00 - Jul 23 with 4265 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 13:29 - Jul 23 by Herbivore |
When you go through our squad you have players like Nsiala, Edwards and Nolan who were top performers in
League 1 a couple of years ago who most of us think aren't good enough for a first team place here. You also have numerous players who have only ever played above this level plus several youngsters who will likely spend much of their career playing above this level too. The idea the squad wasn't good enough doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. |
Seems there are a few on this thread that disagree with you. Are Nsiala, Edwards or Nolan good enough to get us promotion? No, but L1 is their level but they are all in and around our starting XI, which proves my point. You've got other players like Wilson and Donacien who are L2 at best. The youngsters are the most intriguing thing at our club currently, although largely unproven, but they most certainly have potential which is exciting as a Town fan. I'm not going through our whole squad as there are plenty of other examples where L1 is their best fit.
The idea the squad is good enough doesn't stand up to much scrutiny especially when you consider our efforts over the last two seasons. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 14:05]
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 14:57 - Jul 23 with 4236 views | Garv |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 13:27 - Jul 23 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
Our squad last was incredibly overrated. I think the attacking additions of Lankester, El Mizouni, Dobra, Bishop add a lot in the final third.
Still need the additions of a left-back and centre-back.
Central areas are flooded already. |
Definitely. Dobra should have been used more than he has been so hopefully he really kicks on.
I want us to be looking for a Chambers replacement sooner or later, not because he shouldn't be in the side but he's in his last year and it would be great to find someone we could mould into a captain and ultimately replace Chambo with.
Kenlock and Nydam isn't really enough for the left side so agree there too.
I say it every year but I also feel we need more wide options. Yes, Lankester is coming back (though has now been out of action for 18 months for various reasons) but we've lost Rowe so we're back to square one numbers wise. |  |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:12 - Jul 23 with 4215 views | PJH |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 14:00 - Jul 23 by Chrisd |
Seems there are a few on this thread that disagree with you. Are Nsiala, Edwards or Nolan good enough to get us promotion? No, but L1 is their level but they are all in and around our starting XI, which proves my point. You've got other players like Wilson and Donacien who are L2 at best. The youngsters are the most intriguing thing at our club currently, although largely unproven, but they most certainly have potential which is exciting as a Town fan. I'm not going through our whole squad as there are plenty of other examples where L1 is their best fit.
The idea the squad is good enough doesn't stand up to much scrutiny especially when you consider our efforts over the last two seasons. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 14:05]
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Those three were signed by Hurst because they were apparently good in League One in 2017/18 and therefore still should have been good in League One in 2019/20 and perhaps good enough for The Championship in the season in between.
I think that disproves your point rather than proves it. |  | | |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:16 - Jul 23 with 4208 views | Herbivore |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 14:00 - Jul 23 by Chrisd |
Seems there are a few on this thread that disagree with you. Are Nsiala, Edwards or Nolan good enough to get us promotion? No, but L1 is their level but they are all in and around our starting XI, which proves my point. You've got other players like Wilson and Donacien who are L2 at best. The youngsters are the most intriguing thing at our club currently, although largely unproven, but they most certainly have potential which is exciting as a Town fan. I'm not going through our whole squad as there are plenty of other examples where L1 is their best fit.
The idea the squad is good enough doesn't stand up to much scrutiny especially when you consider our efforts over the last two seasons. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 14:05]
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Nsiala is near our first team? We shipped him out to Bolton after two games. Nolan and Edwards are in and out. Both were previously mainstays of promotion chasing League 1 sides. Donacien and Wilson are back up players and fine as that. You're not going through the whole squad because you've basically picked out the only ones you can pick holes in and you've not even done that very well.
Our performance last season reflects some of the most inept management I've seen at Town. | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:21 - Jul 23 with 4198 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:12 - Jul 23 by PJH |
Those three were signed by Hurst because they were apparently good in League One in 2017/18 and therefore still should have been good in League One in 2019/20 and perhaps good enough for The Championship in the season in between.
I think that disproves your point rather than proves it. |
Of course it doesn’t, it confirms my point. We mainly have players that are L1 calibre and we wonder why we are a L1 club? | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:26 - Jul 23 with 4188 views | BlueBadger |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 14:57 - Jul 23 by Garv |
Definitely. Dobra should have been used more than he has been so hopefully he really kicks on.
I want us to be looking for a Chambers replacement sooner or later, not because he shouldn't be in the side but he's in his last year and it would be great to find someone we could mould into a captain and ultimately replace Chambo with.
Kenlock and Nydam isn't really enough for the left side so agree there too.
I say it every year but I also feel we need more wide options. Yes, Lankester is coming back (though has now been out of action for 18 months for various reasons) but we've lost Rowe so we're back to square one numbers wise. |
Without wishing to look like I'm having a go, I'm not sure how you can call our squad 'overrated' and then go on to say that largely untested youngsters will make us much, much better. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 16:31]
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:26 - Jul 23 with 4182 views | Herbivore |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:21 - Jul 23 by Chrisd |
Of course it doesn’t, it confirms my point. We mainly have players that are L1 calibre and we wonder why we are a L1 club? |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:29 - Jul 23 with 4176 views | PJH |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:21 - Jul 23 by Chrisd |
Of course it doesn’t, it confirms my point. We mainly have players that are L1 calibre and we wonder why we are a L1 club? |
Nolan (I think) got selected for the League One team of the year in 2017/18 which would suggest that he was a better than average League One player or even a good League One player.
If he was a better than average or even a good League One player in 2017/18 it would be reasonable to assume that he would still be of that standard in 2019/20.
The squad that Paul Lambert had at his disposal in 2019/20 should have finished in the top two and that looked very likely for the first third of the season. | | | |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:33 - Jul 23 with 4168 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:16 - Jul 23 by Herbivore |
Nsiala is near our first team? We shipped him out to Bolton after two games. Nolan and Edwards are in and out. Both were previously mainstays of promotion chasing League 1 sides. Donacien and Wilson are back up players and fine as that. You're not going through the whole squad because you've basically picked out the only ones you can pick holes in and you've not even done that very well.
Our performance last season reflects some of the most inept management I've seen at Town. |
Here’s a few more for you....Jackson, Holy, Kenlock and even Norwood. Any of those Championship quality players? Jackson possibly. Can’t keep giving you names of players in our squad, which is too good for L1 and proving you wrong. You really have got your blue specs on. Problem is, you can’t admit it and don’t want to. Let’s see how many of the promoted sides want our players during the transfer window, if our players are so good and have too much quality for L1. Downes, Woolfie and KVY, I’ll give you and they should be playing at a higher level, but the rest I’m having a guess at a big, fat none of them. | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:43 - Jul 23 with 4157 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:29 - Jul 23 by PJH |
Nolan (I think) got selected for the League One team of the year in 2017/18 which would suggest that he was a better than average League One player or even a good League One player.
If he was a better than average or even a good League One player in 2017/18 it would be reasonable to assume that he would still be of that standard in 2019/20.
The squad that Paul Lambert had at his disposal in 2019/20 should have finished in the top two and that looked very likely for the first third of the season. |
Sorry PJH because he was voted in the L1 side of the year 2/3 years ago doesn’t mean he is still at that same level. Lots has happened and every player can have a good season, he’s had injuries, a dip in form and confidence. We could go on and on about this, you think he’s decent, that’s fine. Personally, I think he’s L1 at best. So I take on board your points, but it’s down to Nolan to prove me wrong. I just don’t see enough of him in games to disprove my opinion and especially last season. | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:51 - Jul 23 with 4144 views | Garv |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:26 - Jul 23 by BlueBadger |
Without wishing to look like I'm having a go, I'm not sure how you can call our squad 'overrated' and then go on to say that largely untested youngsters will make us much, much better. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 16:31]
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Assume you're replying to the post above. | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:55 - Jul 23 with 4132 views | PJH |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:43 - Jul 23 by Chrisd |
Sorry PJH because he was voted in the L1 side of the year 2/3 years ago doesn’t mean he is still at that same level. Lots has happened and every player can have a good season, he’s had injuries, a dip in form and confidence. We could go on and on about this, you think he’s decent, that’s fine. Personally, I think he’s L1 at best. So I take on board your points, but it’s down to Nolan to prove me wrong. I just don’t see enough of him in games to disprove my opinion and especially last season. |
Actually I think Nolan is next to useless but my point of view, which is not going to change, is and was that we should have got promoted with the squad of players that we had throughout the season.
Nolan would never have been in my first choice starting team so this is not about how good or otherwise Nolan is/was but it is about the strength of the squad overall.
I got involved in this part of the thread because you contradicted Herbie's point about Nolan, Nsiala and Edwards being top performers in L1 and my original point was that we signed them BECAUSE they were top performers in L1.
It would have been reasonable to assume that would still be top performers in L1 even if it got proved that in fact they were not.
The going backwards and forwards on here is about whether our squad was good enough for promotion and in my view the only answer is yes it was. | | | |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 16:11 - Jul 23 with 4102 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:55 - Jul 23 by PJH |
Actually I think Nolan is next to useless but my point of view, which is not going to change, is and was that we should have got promoted with the squad of players that we had throughout the season.
Nolan would never have been in my first choice starting team so this is not about how good or otherwise Nolan is/was but it is about the strength of the squad overall.
I got involved in this part of the thread because you contradicted Herbie's point about Nolan, Nsiala and Edwards being top performers in L1 and my original point was that we signed them BECAUSE they were top performers in L1.
It would have been reasonable to assume that would still be top performers in L1 even if it got proved that in fact they were not.
The going backwards and forwards on here is about whether our squad was good enough for promotion and in my view the only answer is yes it was. |
And my point is, I don't think we were ever good enough for promotion, but that's just my view PJH. Top performers 3 seasons ago doesn’t mean they are top performers now. So their displays over the last two seasons with us have convinced you they are still top L1 players? I don’t think so. I read enough comments from Herbivore how he gives Edwards a hard time for most performances especially last season and doesn’t rate Norwood too much either. We’ve got quite a few players that live on past glories and don’t deliver consistently in the present. I'd be really happy to be proved wrong by our squad and management next season. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 16:39]
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 16:32 - Jul 23 with 4080 views | BlueBadger |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:51 - Jul 23 by Garv |
Assume you're replying to the post above. |
It's been a long couple of night shifts. | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:20 - Jul 23 with 4057 views | Herbivore |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:33 - Jul 23 by Chrisd |
Here’s a few more for you....Jackson, Holy, Kenlock and even Norwood. Any of those Championship quality players? Jackson possibly. Can’t keep giving you names of players in our squad, which is too good for L1 and proving you wrong. You really have got your blue specs on. Problem is, you can’t admit it and don’t want to. Let’s see how many of the promoted sides want our players during the transfer window, if our players are so good and have too much quality for L1. Downes, Woolfie and KVY, I’ll give you and they should be playing at a higher level, but the rest I’m having a guess at a big, fat none of them. |
They don't need to be Championship quality. They need to be good enough to get promoted from League 1. They should have been good enough for that. I'm not wearing any blinkers, I've explained my reasoning to you numerous times. Most League 1 managers and journalists would agree with me that we should have been right in the promotion mix, that's why every League 1 journo had Lambert down as their car crash of the season. | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:25 - Jul 23 with 4053 views | Herbivore |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 16:11 - Jul 23 by Chrisd |
And my point is, I don't think we were ever good enough for promotion, but that's just my view PJH. Top performers 3 seasons ago doesn’t mean they are top performers now. So their displays over the last two seasons with us have convinced you they are still top L1 players? I don’t think so. I read enough comments from Herbivore how he gives Edwards a hard time for most performances especially last season and doesn’t rate Norwood too much either. We’ve got quite a few players that live on past glories and don’t deliver consistently in the present. I'd be really happy to be proved wrong by our squad and management next season. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 16:39]
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Nolan, Edwards and Nsiala are all mid 20s. They haven't aged or deteriorated overnight. If they aren't performing as well as they did 2 years ago that's not about their ability, it's about the manager not getting the best out of them. If other managers have managed to them playing like top League 1 players and our manager hasn't that is on him. Several players in our squad have been more than adequate Championship players, again if they didn't perform like it last season I'd say that's on the manager rather than down to the ability of those players. Wycombe were good enough for promotion, do you honestly think they have a better squad than us player for player? | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:44 - Jul 23 with 4034 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:25 - Jul 23 by Herbivore |
Nolan, Edwards and Nsiala are all mid 20s. They haven't aged or deteriorated overnight. If they aren't performing as well as they did 2 years ago that's not about their ability, it's about the manager not getting the best out of them. If other managers have managed to them playing like top League 1 players and our manager hasn't that is on him. Several players in our squad have been more than adequate Championship players, again if they didn't perform like it last season I'd say that's on the manager rather than down to the ability of those players. Wycombe were good enough for promotion, do you honestly think they have a better squad than us player for player? |
Well two managers and one of those in PH had previously managed Nolan and Nsiala at Shrewsbury, which seems conveniently forgotten and they still weren’t performing for us and PH should be the one who knows them best who can get them to play to their potential. They both looked well short of Championship quality. There is still responsibility on the players to deliver once they cross that white line, it’s like everything is on the manager. At what point are the players accountable? Sorry, I don’t know the Wycombe side well enough to make a comparison. Although a side that has a bit of true Championship quality and knowhow about it is more likely to gain promotion and that does make the difference, sadly we’re lacking in that department. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 17:52]
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:48 - Jul 23 with 4028 views | PJH |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:25 - Jul 23 by Herbivore |
Nolan, Edwards and Nsiala are all mid 20s. They haven't aged or deteriorated overnight. If they aren't performing as well as they did 2 years ago that's not about their ability, it's about the manager not getting the best out of them. If other managers have managed to them playing like top League 1 players and our manager hasn't that is on him. Several players in our squad have been more than adequate Championship players, again if they didn't perform like it last season I'd say that's on the manager rather than down to the ability of those players. Wycombe were good enough for promotion, do you honestly think they have a better squad than us player for player? |
I started a few attempts to reply to the post that you are replying to but you are saying in this one much of what I was trying to convey.
Basically the discussion/argument is about whether ITFC had a squad that should have got promotion or not-some say no and some say yes but I don't think anyone will be changing their opinions, I am sure as hell not anyway. | | | |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:53 - Jul 23 with 4024 views | Herbivore |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:44 - Jul 23 by Chrisd |
Well two managers and one of those in PH had previously managed Nolan and Nsiala at Shrewsbury, which seems conveniently forgotten and they still weren’t performing for us and PH should be the one who knows them best who can get them to play to their potential. They both looked well short of Championship quality. There is still responsibility on the players to deliver once they cross that white line, it’s like everything is on the manager. At what point are the players accountable? Sorry, I don’t know the Wycombe side well enough to make a comparison. Although a side that has a bit of true Championship quality and knowhow about it is more likely to gain promotion and that does make the difference, sadly we’re lacking in that department. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 17:52]
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Hurst was only their manager here for a handful of games and they were playing in the Championship in a struggling side. We're talking about them as League 1 players.
So you don't know enough about Wycombe's squad to make a judgment about how they compare to us? Given they were one of our rivals for most of the season I find that surprising. If you don't know enough about the quality of other sides in the division how can you confidently say we didn't have a good enough squad? The quality of our squad always has to be understood int the context of the quality of the 22 other sides we were competing against. | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:57 - Jul 23 with 4020 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:48 - Jul 23 by PJH |
I started a few attempts to reply to the post that you are replying to but you are saying in this one much of what I was trying to convey.
Basically the discussion/argument is about whether ITFC had a squad that should have got promotion or not-some say no and some say yes but I don't think anyone will be changing their opinions, I am sure as hell not anyway. |
Neither will I, that’s at least something we agree on. We can nip it in the bud right there. | |
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 18:03 - Jul 23 with 4013 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 17:53 - Jul 23 by Herbivore |
Hurst was only their manager here for a handful of games and they were playing in the Championship in a struggling side. We're talking about them as League 1 players.
So you don't know enough about Wycombe's squad to make a judgment about how they compare to us? Given they were one of our rivals for most of the season I find that surprising. If you don't know enough about the quality of other sides in the division how can you confidently say we didn't have a good enough squad? The quality of our squad always has to be understood int the context of the quality of the 22 other sides we were competing against. |
You know the Wycombe squad well enough based on two games against us? Just laughable 😂. I know our squad much better and that’s the point of this thread. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 18:06]
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| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 18:07 - Jul 23 with 4004 views | Herbivore |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 18:03 - Jul 23 by Chrisd |
You know the Wycombe squad well enough based on two games against us? Just laughable 😂. I know our squad much better and that’s the point of this thread. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 18:06]
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I know it well enough to make a comparison with our squad, yes. You don't seem to understand that when assessing the quality of our squad in respect of challenging for promotion you need to the strength of other squads at this level as a basis for comparison. Knowing our squad alone doesn't cut it. You cannot confidently say the squad wasn't good enough for promotion when you don't know how good other sides' squads were, that just doesn't work. | |
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