| Look at their squads and then compare ours 10:14 - Jul 23 with 16934 views | Chrisd |
Appreciate they will lose some of their players, but when you look at Hull City, Wigan and Charlton now you can argue all three of those sides have squads that are far superior to ours from last season and they all amassed points totals in the mid to high 40s, not a paltry 31 and well adrift of safety. So once again, why did we feel that our squad was too good for L1? I think Joe, posted a thread about our current squad positionally, it highlighted that we have areas of the pitch that lacks: experience, proven quality and depth. It will be even harder this coming season too. |  |
| |  |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 10:31 - Jul 24 with 1162 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 09:00 - Jul 24 by itfcjoe |
There is a massive difference between knowing L1 clubs as well as your own than actually having some basis of understanding of the squads you are up against.
You've literally started this thread talking about the squads of Wigan, Hull and Charlton and saying how good they are but now when asked for a view on Wycombe's squad, a direct competitor you say "Sorry, I don’t know the Wycombe side well enough to make a comparison."
But you know the Wigan, Hull and Charlton squads well enough to do so? It's not difficult to gain a working knowledge of the squads in the rest of the league, in the calibre of players they have, the depth they have etc. |
If you actually read what I wrote in the OP, I was drawing the comparison that all 3 sides had amassed points totals far so superior to our own efforts in getting relegated, which is a fair indication that their squads are arguable stronger than ours at the time we got relegated without knowing them inside out. That isn't difficult to conclude, is it? Would that not be your assumption?
You could also argue all three of those sides have done that in a stronger Championship than what we were in at the time. I have a very decent working knowledge of other sides thank you. I, like you, am more than capable of forming a judgement on a side or players after watching them without knowing them in detail. I agree that PL certainly hasn't helped matters and I have said that all along, but once again if you go through 'OUR' squad are they really as good as we feel they are? Why should we have that confidence and faith in them, what have they shown over the last two seasons to prove me wrong? I've seen little evidence to change my view. Perhaps accepting that we do have a squad that lacks certain qualities and standard of player, along with PL's managerial inadequacies might actually help to process the reason why we find ourselves as a L1 side.
Next season, is going to be really telling for the manager and our players, but I'm happy to be proved wrong. [Post edited 24 Jul 2020 10:46]
| |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 10:35 - Jul 24 with 1151 views | PJH |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 09:14 - Jul 24 by Herbivore |
By literally everyone. That piece in the EADT where local journalists from the other League 1 sides gave their view on the season was really telling. I think the only person that didn't name Lambert the car crash of the season acknowledged that they weren't going to say him because it was too obvious. These journalists - who know League 1 well - all thought we should have been up there. When you factor in the headstart we had after picking up 27 points in 11 games it makes it an even worse failure. If we'd been bang average rather than lower mid table over the rest of the season we'd likely have made the play offs at least. |
Certainly from being top of the division in November (ignoring that we were again in January) and with having a squad better than most if not all of the teams in the division then ONLY making the playoffs would have been a disappointment.
The rest of the division saw our collapse as the biggest failure so that, perhaps more than what we think, highlights what we achieved(or didn't) compared with what we should have achieved. |  | | |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 10:45 - Jul 24 with 1126 views | itfcjoe |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 10:31 - Jul 24 by Chrisd |
If you actually read what I wrote in the OP, I was drawing the comparison that all 3 sides had amassed points totals far so superior to our own efforts in getting relegated, which is a fair indication that their squads are arguable stronger than ours at the time we got relegated without knowing them inside out. That isn't difficult to conclude, is it? Would that not be your assumption?
You could also argue all three of those sides have done that in a stronger Championship than what we were in at the time. I have a very decent working knowledge of other sides thank you. I, like you, am more than capable of forming a judgement on a side or players after watching them without knowing them in detail. I agree that PL certainly hasn't helped matters and I have said that all along, but once again if you go through 'OUR' squad are they really as good as we feel they are? Why should we have that confidence and faith in them, what have they shown over the last two seasons to prove me wrong? I've seen little evidence to change my view. Perhaps accepting that we do have a squad that lacks certain qualities and standard of player, along with PL's managerial inadequacies might actually help to process the reason why we find ourselves as a L1 side.
Next season, is going to be really telling for the manager and our players, but I'm happy to be proved wrong. [Post edited 24 Jul 2020 10:46]
|
That is not what you've said, it is literally there in black and white. |  |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 10:53 - Jul 24 with 1110 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 10:45 - Jul 24 by itfcjoe |
That is not what you've said, it is literally there in black and white. |
Isn't it? They have superior squads due to their points totals? Yes, that's there in black and white. Would that not be your conclusion? | |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 10:55 - Jul 24 with 1105 views | itfcjoe |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 10:53 - Jul 24 by Chrisd |
Isn't it? They have superior squads due to their points totals? Yes, that's there in black and white. Would that not be your conclusion? |
You say they have superior squads AND they amassed better point totals
It also totally ignores the fact that Hull have picked up 6 points since Christmas so their points total is about as irrelevant as it comes | |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 11:03 - Jul 24 with 1095 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 10:55 - Jul 24 by itfcjoe |
You say they have superior squads AND they amassed better point totals
It also totally ignores the fact that Hull have picked up 6 points since Christmas so their points total is about as irrelevant as it comes |
You forgotten we got relegated with 31 points? Yes, 31! So yes, Charlton, Wigan and Hull all got better points totals than us regardless of how you try and gloss over it or refuse to accept it, so you can conclude they have superior squads. Based on how poor we were during our last Championship campaign, Hull City probably would still fancy beating us even with their own poor run of form - That's my opinion by the way, not fact. | |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 11:08 - Jul 24 with 1086 views | itfcjoe |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 11:03 - Jul 24 by Chrisd |
You forgotten we got relegated with 31 points? Yes, 31! So yes, Charlton, Wigan and Hull all got better points totals than us regardless of how you try and gloss over it or refuse to accept it, so you can conclude they have superior squads. Based on how poor we were during our last Championship campaign, Hull City probably would still fancy beating us even with their own poor run of form - That's my opinion by the way, not fact. |
No I haven't forgotten.
I can conclude that Hull have a worse squad than us, they sold their best 2 players in January and picked up 6 points in 6 months. That is more relevant than how they did at the start of the season with Bowen and Grosicki in the team scoring all their goals.
Wigan are clearly miles better than we were, they have been one of the best teams in the league above for 3-4 months.
Charlton have started well but are a shambles of a club at the moment, they will likely lose the manager that has held it all together.
None of the teams coming down are in a good state, assuming administration hits Wigan hard - we have dodged a bullet by Luton and Barnsley staying up at the expense of Charlton and Hull | |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 11:16 - Jul 24 with 1071 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 08:31 - Jul 24 by itfcjoe |
That wasn't the case with Dobra |
I was told that directly from a first team player? |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 11:17 - Jul 24 with 1069 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 11:08 - Jul 24 by itfcjoe |
No I haven't forgotten.
I can conclude that Hull have a worse squad than us, they sold their best 2 players in January and picked up 6 points in 6 months. That is more relevant than how they did at the start of the season with Bowen and Grosicki in the team scoring all their goals.
Wigan are clearly miles better than we were, they have been one of the best teams in the league above for 3-4 months.
Charlton have started well but are a shambles of a club at the moment, they will likely lose the manager that has held it all together.
None of the teams coming down are in a good state, assuming administration hits Wigan hard - we have dodged a bullet by Luton and Barnsley staying up at the expense of Charlton and Hull |
Like me with my stance, this is your opinion Joe. You don't really know for sure what will happen between now and when the season recommences with those clubs, you're surmising. Yes, I agree that some are potentially in a mess, but we weren't in a particularly good place either with a huge black cloud looming over PR when we got relegated, you could still say it's there now. There was plenty to be concerned about going into our first L1 campaign for 50+ years. [Post edited 24 Jul 2020 11:38]
| |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 11:21 - Jul 24 with 1061 views | itfcjoe |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 11:16 - Jul 24 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
I was told that directly from a first team player? |
They were only £400 apart in weekly wage so wasn't holding anything up.
He basically played in all the cup games - his issue was when he had a chance he got sent off and a 3 game ban which basically ruled him out of league games from 20th October until 14th December bar the big double header vs Blackpool and Wycombe which weren't really games for him
It took him too long to get back in the team, but just too many bodies in the way blocking him and why I'd be against looking to sign too many this summer as squad is still so bloated. | |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 13:11 - Jul 24 with 1010 views | Herbivore |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 11:17 - Jul 24 by Chrisd |
Like me with my stance, this is your opinion Joe. You don't really know for sure what will happen between now and when the season recommences with those clubs, you're surmising. Yes, I agree that some are potentially in a mess, but we weren't in a particularly good place either with a huge black cloud looming over PR when we got relegated, you could still say it's there now. There was plenty to be concerned about going into our first L1 campaign for 50+ years. [Post edited 24 Jul 2020 11:38]
|
Aren't you surmising that they will be better than us whilst telling Joe not to surmise that they might be worse? Double standards there, Christian.
We weren't in the kind of mess the sides coming down are. We had stability at least in terms of ownership and management and we largely kept our squad together. We certainly weren't comparable to the kind of mess that the three sides coming down look to be. They all have huge off field issues to contend with as well as not having been good enough on the field. |  |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:40 - Jul 24 with 972 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 13:11 - Jul 24 by Herbivore |
Aren't you surmising that they will be better than us whilst telling Joe not to surmise that they might be worse? Double standards there, Christian.
We weren't in the kind of mess the sides coming down are. We had stability at least in terms of ownership and management and we largely kept our squad together. We certainly weren't comparable to the kind of mess that the three sides coming down look to be. They all have huge off field issues to contend with as well as not having been good enough on the field. |
Yes quite right, we're both surmising, we all do it including yourself. The whole point of this forum is about giving opinions loosely based on facts as none of us really know the full extent of the details. This is the stability where our own fans were questioning and beginning to challenge our owner's intentions, lack of leadership and financial investment and the manager that even you think is tactically inept and clueless? So we still had and have issues to deal with along with not being good enough on the field, not so much Wigan as they proved they were, but certainly Charlton and Hull. [Post edited 25 Jul 2020 9:45]
| |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:45 - Jul 24 with 968 views | Herbivore |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:40 - Jul 24 by Chrisd |
Yes quite right, we're both surmising, we all do it including yourself. The whole point of this forum is about giving opinions loosely based on facts as none of us really know the full extent of the details. This is the stability where our own fans were questioning and beginning to challenge our owner's intentions, lack of leadership and financial investment and the manager that even you think is tactically inept and clueless? So we still had and have issues to deal with along with not being good enough on the field, not so much Wigan as they proved they were, but certainly Charlton and Hull. [Post edited 25 Jul 2020 9:45]
|
But the issues these three are facing - administration, losing their best players, basket case owners, potentially losing their managers - are of a far greater magnitude than our being a bit disgruntled with Evans. Rewind to the start of last season and most were willing to give Lambert a chance as well. We had stability off the pitch which the three coming down completely lack. Look at what happened to Bolton who came down with us. | |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:54 - Jul 24 with 960 views | Chrisd |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 15:45 - Jul 24 by Herbivore |
But the issues these three are facing - administration, losing their best players, basket case owners, potentially losing their managers - are of a far greater magnitude than our being a bit disgruntled with Evans. Rewind to the start of last season and most were willing to give Lambert a chance as well. We had stability off the pitch which the three coming down completely lack. Look at what happened to Bolton who came down with us. |
Lets see what develops, there appears to be suitors for Wigan and Charlton. Bolton had been a basket case club for quite a considerable amount of time and always appeared on the brink. We probably were in a better position, but by no means were we harmonious, there was and still remains a lot of questions to be answered at our club. Are we any nearer to answering those now and are we any further forward as club? I'd have to say no. [Post edited 24 Jul 2020 16:00]
| |
| |
| Look at their squads and then compare ours on 16:07 - Jul 24 with 948 views | ElderGrizzly |
All three, especially Wigan, will be decimated by player sales and releases.
Hull have only retained around 15 players I thought I saw yesterday? |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
