| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 12:27 - Aug 26 with 668 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 11:37 - Aug 26 by manchego |
The UK benefitted to the tune of £80 billion quid a year from being in the EU. Don't make out like we're doing everyone else a favour.
Estimated membership fee is £9 billion. |
Indeed.
So much so that the UK was instrumental in pushing for the expanded EU and admitting poorer countries to grow our own economy through new markets for our goods and services and access to more (and cheaper) labour.
But reality just isn't as exciting as the pure fantasy of Brexit. |  |
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 12:57 - Aug 26 with 640 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 11:06 - Aug 26 by GlasgowBlue |
It would be very odd if I paid £500 a year to be a member of a gym and found out that over half the other members were actually being paid to be members of the same gym and that money came from my membership fees. |
You're assuming that the other gym members have the same circumstances as yourself - are you ok with concession memberships, where say OAPs and students pay less but get exactly the same benefits as you? Or that even some gyms have concessions for disabled members, even though the gym has to pay more for specialist equipment? Isn't the overall benefit of using a gym for all members that everyone gets fitter and healthier? |  |
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 13:25 - Aug 26 with 623 views | vapour_trail |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 11:37 - Aug 26 by manchego |
The UK benefitted to the tune of £80 billion quid a year from being in the EU. Don't make out like we're doing everyone else a favour.
Estimated membership fee is £9 billion. |
As with all who aligned, politically and vociferously, on the leave side, there will be these gradual steps to distance themselves from the inevitable negative consequences on communities. You will see this increasingly over the next decade.
Disingenuous is a generous reading of it. |  |
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 14:56 - Aug 26 with 607 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 11:37 - Aug 26 by manchego |
The UK benefitted to the tune of £80 billion quid a year from being in the EU. Don't make out like we're doing everyone else a favour.
Estimated membership fee is £9 billion. |
Too many are missing the point I am making here.
This isn’t an argument over the benefits of EU membership. That is a completely different argument.
We are talking about the EU grants to the regions, which is basically U.K. money, paid to the EU as a NET contributor and then redistributed to the regions.
My point is that central government should be making up that shortfall as we are no longer paying in. If they don’t the. It’s a betrayal of promises made during the referendum.
I completely accept Herbie’s point that the EU are better custodians and distributors of the fund than the the U.K. government and I don’t expect that shyster Johnson to make up the shortfall.
I really don’t understand how hard that is to grasp. |  |
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 14:57 - Aug 26 with 605 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 13:25 - Aug 26 by vapour_trail |
As with all who aligned, politically and vociferously, on the leave side, there will be these gradual steps to distance themselves from the inevitable negative consequences on communities. You will see this increasingly over the next decade.
Disingenuous is a generous reading of it. |
Perhaps read what I posted? | |
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:05 - Aug 26 with 597 views | Herbivore |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 14:56 - Aug 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Too many are missing the point I am making here.
This isn’t an argument over the benefits of EU membership. That is a completely different argument.
We are talking about the EU grants to the regions, which is basically U.K. money, paid to the EU as a NET contributor and then redistributed to the regions.
My point is that central government should be making up that shortfall as we are no longer paying in. If they don’t the. It’s a betrayal of promises made during the referendum.
I completely accept Herbie’s point that the EU are better custodians and distributors of the fund than the the U.K. government and I don’t expect that shyster Johnson to make up the shortfall.
I really don’t understand how hard that is to grasp. |
It removes a lot of context that's important though, Glassers. It's right to say that the money we currently pay directly to the EU will no longer be paid to them and so in principle could directly be paid to EU funded projects and regions. However, we accrue significant economic benefits through being members of the EU to the tune of tens of billions a year. Once we lose those the money we 'save' very quickly disappears into that blackhole. That's before accounting for extra costs on infrastructure and replacing certain EU processes and bodies with our own processes and bodies. Brexit has allegedly already cost us more than our entire EU contributions over the course of our membership. There won't be any money freed up for the likes of Cornwall through us leaving. [Post edited 26 Aug 2020 15:15]
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:07 - Aug 26 with 597 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 12:57 - Aug 26 by Ewan_Oozami |
You're assuming that the other gym members have the same circumstances as yourself - are you ok with concession memberships, where say OAPs and students pay less but get exactly the same benefits as you? Or that even some gyms have concessions for disabled members, even though the gym has to pay more for specialist equipment? Isn't the overall benefit of using a gym for all members that everyone gets fitter and healthier? |
That’s a fair point but the gym analogy drifts away from my point. That it is outer money and now we are no longer paying into thr EU budget it is up to central government to make good on the payments to the regions.
It’s pretty simple really.
Let’s say that a man is on a salary of 100k a year, his wife doesn’t work and as he’s a bit of an old dinosaur he hands over a proportion of his salary to his wife who redistributes some of that money to his children.
Then they split up, Mr gets the kids and now rather than give the money to his ex wife to give to his kids, he gives the money directly to his kids himself.
Now if we weren’t a net contributor to the EU budget then we’d be fcuked if we left because we were getting more back in grants than we contributed.
Again, people seem to be missing the point I’m making. Johnson has to make up the shortfall to the regions. He’s obligated to do so. | |
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:10 - Aug 26 with 596 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:05 - Aug 26 by Herbivore |
It removes a lot of context that's important though, Glassers. It's right to say that the money we currently pay directly to the EU will no longer be paid to them and so in principle could directly be paid to EU funded projects and regions. However, we accrue significant economic benefits through being members of the EU to the tune of tens of billions a year. Once we lose those the money we 'save' very quickly disappears into that blackhole. That's before accounting for extra costs on infrastructure and replacing certain EU processes and bodies with our own processes and bodies. Brexit has allegedly already cost us more than our entire EU contributions over the course of our membership. There won't be any money freed up for the likes of Cornwall through us leaving. [Post edited 26 Aug 2020 15:15]
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Yeah I completely accept the argument that leaving could well make us poorer and could be a massive own goal.
That was never the point I was making. It was always that the Government, lead by a man who campaigned for leave, are obligated to find the money that Cornwall and other regions were receiving from the EU.
For me it’s a point of principle that the keave campaign make good in their promises. | |
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:13 - Aug 26 with 589 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 14:56 - Aug 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Too many are missing the point I am making here.
This isn’t an argument over the benefits of EU membership. That is a completely different argument.
We are talking about the EU grants to the regions, which is basically U.K. money, paid to the EU as a NET contributor and then redistributed to the regions.
My point is that central government should be making up that shortfall as we are no longer paying in. If they don’t the. It’s a betrayal of promises made during the referendum.
I completely accept Herbie’s point that the EU are better custodians and distributors of the fund than the the U.K. government and I don’t expect that shyster Johnson to make up the shortfall.
I really don’t understand how hard that is to grasp. |
It depends which way you spin it I guess. What you're saying isn't technically wrong, but neither are your opponents.
Presumably Cornwall benefits from our membership in other ways than cold hard cash? In which case I'd lean towards your opponents. |  |
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:17 - Aug 26 with 579 views | Herbivore |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:10 - Aug 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Yeah I completely accept the argument that leaving could well make us poorer and could be a massive own goal.
That was never the point I was making. It was always that the Government, lead by a man who campaigned for leave, are obligated to find the money that Cornwall and other regions were receiving from the EU.
For me it’s a point of principle that the keave campaign make good in their promises. |
I agree that the government should make up the shortfall given that they promised to cover any EU funding from UK government funds. That money will have to be found from somewhere though and will likely mean other areas of spending miss out. There is no extra money in the UK coffers as a result of Brexit and people need to stop thinking otherwise. | |
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:26 - Aug 26 with 569 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:13 - Aug 26 by BrixtonBlue |
It depends which way you spin it I guess. What you're saying isn't technically wrong, but neither are your opponents.
Presumably Cornwall benefits from our membership in other ways than cold hard cash? In which case I'd lean towards your opponents. |
But we are only discussing the cold hard cash. I’ve not denied that EU Membership brings other benefits. But the op was about Cornwall looking for government to make up the shortfall on the “cold hard cash”.
I didn’t think it would be this hard getting people to agree that the government, and Johnson in particular should be held to account for their promises made during the referendum.
We paid money in. Got some of it back. Now we don’t pay in we should use that to replace the grants. | |
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:32 - Aug 26 with 556 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 12:27 - Aug 26 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
So much so that the UK was instrumental in pushing for the expanded EU and admitting poorer countries to grow our own economy through new markets for our goods and services and access to more (and cheaper) labour.
But reality just isn't as exciting as the pure fantasy of Brexit. |
So you’re against parting ways with your biggest trading partner then?
[Post edited 26 Aug 2020 15:32]
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| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 18:49 - Aug 26 with 512 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh dear Cornwall (n/t) on 15:32 - Aug 26 by GlasgowBlue |
So you’re against parting ways with your biggest trading partner then?
[Post edited 26 Aug 2020 15:32]
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I don’t really see any other choice in the long term.
The UK just doesn’t think enough about the future. | |
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