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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 14:18 - Nov 9 by Enigma_Blue
You are right I don't know if he had been warned previously just in the same way you don't that he had been.
I have already condemned him. If I had known at the time it was a deliberate stunt I wouldn't have made the post.
If it comes out they he had tried previously to break through & was warned I will absolve the police officer, but until then I still think his shove was OTT.
I get the feeling that because it has now been revealed he his ex UKIP that justifies what happened to him in your eyes.
Your last statement is irrelevant we are not in America.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 14:19]
No, I've said all along there was something fishy about this and he seemed to deliberately walk into the police. Being ex UKIP has nothing to do with it (i didn't know that fact at that point). What's worse is this was pre-planned, regardless of his political persuasion.
It's interesting that your first thought is to attack the police and wait for more evidence for why you shouldn't. I go with the police on this one myself.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 14:42 - Nov 9 with 1523 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 14:36 - Nov 9 by Enigma_Blue
People are playing down the policeman actions because he has now come out and said he did it deliberately, so that makes him fair game. It was a shove not a hand off, if you look at the video the officers arms were fully extended.
You say it was instinct from the officer so say for example it was a little old lady who walked into him he would have still done the same thing?
He tried to walk in between two officers which was wrong but only one of them felt the need to push him, perhaps that officer could learn some restraint like the other officer.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 14:36]
It wasn't a little old lady though. It was a strapping ex-soldier.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 14:45 - Nov 9 with 1519 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 14:27 - Nov 9 by Enigma_Blue
No I didn't say that I said regardless of 'his' motives. If someone came charging towards the police with a weapon for example I would expect the police to do more than just shove a person.
Interesting that there were two officers he tried to walk in between but only one of them felt the need to shove him backwards, the other one just stood firm.
The point is the policeman doesn't know this guy's motives. He could be a nutter (probably not that big a leap given he's an ex-UKIPer trying to walk through a police line while playing the bagpipes).
You've also avoided answering what you'd do if someone deliberately walked into you during a pandemic. I think a shove is more than reasonable in the circumstances.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 14:47 - Nov 9 with 1519 views
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 14:29 - Nov 9 by SouperJim
Based on everything we now know, if you chose to believe that up to the point of the police pushing him away he had presented as a perfectly well behaved member of the public, then you naively crack on with that.
We're supplied with a 10 second clip of him walking along the line of police playing the bagpipes in their faces before getting a shove for trying to walk through them. The article you quote says he was asked to wait until the restricted area was opened up. So he was already told what to do and chose to ignore.
As others have said, you seem determined to double down and argue black is white. The bloke himself admitted it was a deliberate act to try and provoke a response. Cue faux outrage, disgraceful coppers shoving around innocent defenseless veterans etc. Laughable.
I have already condemned his behaviour which I hadn't done previously, yet I am somehow doubling down? Weird!
When I first saw the video I didn't think this guy had made a mistake, even at the time I didn't know he had been told he couldn't g that way he still tried to do something he shouldn't, the police wall was obvious.
The officers actions were OTT and I still stand by that.
If you go through the thread you will see there were other posters who condemned the officer's actions. Just because this guy has come out & said he planned it doesn't change the officer's actions for me. It is my opinion his reaction wasn't warranted and I still think that regardless of this guy being a douchebag.
I think I have made my views pretty clear on this & no amount of down votes or posts disagreeing with me is going to change my opinion on the officer's actions. If you don't agree with me then you don't agree with me fine.
Like I said if it comes out he had previously tried to barge through the wall then I will accept the officer 's actions were justified.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 14:54]
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:00 - Nov 9 with 1485 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 14:38 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile
No, I've said all along there was something fishy about this and he seemed to deliberately walk into the police. Being ex UKIP has nothing to do with it (i didn't know that fact at that point). What's worse is this was pre-planned, regardless of his political persuasion.
It's interesting that your first thought is to attack the police and wait for more evidence for why you shouldn't. I go with the police on this one myself.
It wasn't an attack though he was playing the bagpipes. It was an attack on the senses perhaps .
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 15:01]
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:02 - Nov 9 with 1480 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 14:42 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile
It wasn't a little old lady though. It was a strapping ex-soldier.
You could barely go out in Colchester in the early 90,s without getting into some kinda argument with a moronic squaddie. If only I'd known how easy they full over...
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:21 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile
I didn't say it was an attack.
My mistake I read your post wrong. Apologies.
I am still entitled to my opinion that the officer's actions were not justified.
The reason I made that comment about being desperate to win an argument is the way people twist things or make up facts to try & argue their point.
For example Souper Jim posting that the police knew he was a trouble maker. He might have been but we don't know that for a fact so he shouldn't state it like it is.
Also you said that this guy deliberately walked into the officer during a pandemic. But that's not true he didn't deliberately walk into the officer if you look at the video there was a little gap between the two officers and he tried to walk through it, which was wrong and I am not defending his actions on this.
You are trying to make out that he deliberately barged straight into the officer that shoved him but that is simply not the case. If people are so convinced that they are right and someone is wrong there should be no need to try and twist things or worse make up facts.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 15:36]
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:41 - Nov 9 with 1419 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:32 - Nov 9 by Enigma_Blue
My mistake I read your post wrong. Apologies.
I am still entitled to my opinion that the officer's actions were not justified.
The reason I made that comment about being desperate to win an argument is the way people twist things or make up facts to try & argue their point.
For example Souper Jim posting that the police knew he was a trouble maker. He might have been but we don't know that for a fact so he shouldn't state it like it is.
Also you said that this guy deliberately walked into the officer during a pandemic. But that's not true he didn't deliberately walk into the officer if you look at the video there was a little gap between the two officers and he tried to walk through it, which was wrong and I am not defending his actions on this.
You are trying to make out that he deliberately barged straight into the officer that shoved him but that is simply not the case. If people are so convinced that they are right and someone is wrong there should be no need to try and twist things or worse make up facts.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 15:36]
Sigh.
We know he's a troublemaker who walked deliberately at the officers, because he couldn't resist boasting about it on video.
Anyway, the disrespectful idiot got exactly what he wanted, so I don't know why you feel the need to put so much energy into defending him.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:45 - Nov 9 with 1412 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:32 - Nov 9 by Enigma_Blue
My mistake I read your post wrong. Apologies.
I am still entitled to my opinion that the officer's actions were not justified.
The reason I made that comment about being desperate to win an argument is the way people twist things or make up facts to try & argue their point.
For example Souper Jim posting that the police knew he was a trouble maker. He might have been but we don't know that for a fact so he shouldn't state it like it is.
Also you said that this guy deliberately walked into the officer during a pandemic. But that's not true he didn't deliberately walk into the officer if you look at the video there was a little gap between the two officers and he tried to walk through it, which was wrong and I am not defending his actions on this.
You are trying to make out that he deliberately barged straight into the officer that shoved him but that is simply not the case. If people are so convinced that they are right and someone is wrong there should be no need to try and twist things or worse make up facts.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 15:36]
I think you need to look at it again. The gap isn't big enough to get a little old lady through, let alone a fat man and his bagpipes.
Regardless, he knew he wasn't supposed to go through the police line. You said earlier they should just block him (presumably by closing the gap) - which means having a man right in your face. I'll ask you again, what would you do if someone came that close to you, deliberately, during a pandemic?
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:52 - Nov 9 with 1404 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:45 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile
I think you need to look at it again. The gap isn't big enough to get a little old lady through, let alone a fat man and his bagpipes.
Regardless, he knew he wasn't supposed to go through the police line. You said earlier they should just block him (presumably by closing the gap) - which means having a man right in your face. I'll ask you again, what would you do if someone came that close to you, deliberately, during a pandemic?
People have come up to me that close in the Super market & in the street during the pandemic but my instinct has not been to shove them out of the way. Does that answer your question?
If I was in that police wall I would have done what the other officer did.
If someone had deliberately walked straight into me regardless of their being a pandemic or not I might shove them back yes but just in close proximity no.
I suggest you watch the video again the officer's didn't really close the gap at all the officer on the right shoved him as he tried to walk through the gap.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 15:54]
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 16:02 - Nov 9 with 1397 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:52 - Nov 9 by Enigma_Blue
People have come up to me that close in the Super market & in the street during the pandemic but my instinct has not been to shove them out of the way. Does that answer your question?
If I was in that police wall I would have done what the other officer did.
If someone had deliberately walked straight into me regardless of their being a pandemic or not I might shove them back yes but just in close proximity no.
I suggest you watch the video again the officer's didn't really close the gap at all the officer on the right shoved him as he tried to walk through the gap.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 15:54]
The people coming close to you in the supermarket aren't doing it deliberately or to provoke you. And you're not a policeman blocking them from doing something they shouldn't. So no, you haven't answered the question.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 17:08 - Nov 9 with 1345 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 16:19 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile
The people coming close to you in the supermarket aren't doing it deliberately or to provoke you. And you're not a policeman blocking them from doing something they shouldn't. So no, you haven't answered the question.
For all I know some of these people in the supermarket may have done it deliberately, we know there are lunatics about who think the virus is a hoax and they could deliberately be going close to people as if to prove their point.
It doesn't look as if I can answer your question then because I am not in the police and never have been.
But if I try and put myself into the shoes of the officers who were there and given what they knew at the time I don't believe I would have shoved him. If he deliberately walked straight towards me or took a run up I may well have done but the guy didn't do that.
I may not be in the police but like most people I know people who are, some support the officers actions others think he overreacted. Especially as he would probably known that by taking the action he did it would enrage the other veterans & supporters who were there. You could argue the officer made the situation even worse. There is nothing wrong with having a different opinion on something.
All they needed to do was close the gap stand firm and tell him to back away.
This guy was as close to the other officer as he was to the one who pushed him. Why did one officer feel the need to shove him but not the other?
As I have previously said if it comes to light that he had previously tried to breach the wall then I will change my opinion but I won't be changing it based on a pile on, down votes or people twisting the facts . I am not that weak minded.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 17:12]
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 17:51 - Nov 9 with 1302 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 14:53 - Nov 9 by Enigma_Blue
I have already condemned his behaviour which I hadn't done previously, yet I am somehow doubling down? Weird!
When I first saw the video I didn't think this guy had made a mistake, even at the time I didn't know he had been told he couldn't g that way he still tried to do something he shouldn't, the police wall was obvious.
The officers actions were OTT and I still stand by that.
If you go through the thread you will see there were other posters who condemned the officer's actions. Just because this guy has come out & said he planned it doesn't change the officer's actions for me. It is my opinion his reaction wasn't warranted and I still think that regardless of this guy being a douchebag.
I think I have made my views pretty clear on this & no amount of down votes or posts disagreeing with me is going to change my opinion on the officer's actions. If you don't agree with me then you don't agree with me fine.
Like I said if it comes out he had previously tried to barge through the wall then I will accept the officer 's actions were justified.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 14:54]
i can see only one poster who condemned the policeman and that was gtsb, one other said it seemed ott. you did get some uppies from 2 posters who have kept quiet. i think you picked the wrong hill to die on
forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 18:17 - Nov 9 with 1288 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 17:08 - Nov 9 by Enigma_Blue
For all I know some of these people in the supermarket may have done it deliberately, we know there are lunatics about who think the virus is a hoax and they could deliberately be going close to people as if to prove their point.
It doesn't look as if I can answer your question then because I am not in the police and never have been.
But if I try and put myself into the shoes of the officers who were there and given what they knew at the time I don't believe I would have shoved him. If he deliberately walked straight towards me or took a run up I may well have done but the guy didn't do that.
I may not be in the police but like most people I know people who are, some support the officers actions others think he overreacted. Especially as he would probably known that by taking the action he did it would enrage the other veterans & supporters who were there. You could argue the officer made the situation even worse. There is nothing wrong with having a different opinion on something.
All they needed to do was close the gap stand firm and tell him to back away.
This guy was as close to the other officer as he was to the one who pushed him. Why did one officer feel the need to shove him but not the other?
As I have previously said if it comes to light that he had previously tried to breach the wall then I will change my opinion but I won't be changing it based on a pile on, down votes or people twisting the facts . I am not that weak minded.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 17:12]
If you're equating people going near you in a supermarket to this moron trying to break through a police line then there's nothing more I can say.
I've just got back from Sainsburys and I didn't have anyone coming towards me up close and personal (with or without bagpipes), but maybe I just got lucky.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 19:25 - Nov 9 with 1255 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 18:17 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile
If you're equating people going near you in a supermarket to this moron trying to break through a police line then there's nothing more I can say.
I've just got back from Sainsburys and I didn't have anyone coming towards me up close and personal (with or without bagpipes), but maybe I just got lucky.
I am not equating people going near me is the same. You were the one who asked me about people going to close to me during a pandemic and I gave you my answer.
You are desperately trying to get me to justify the officers actions. I have already said that if I was in his shoes i wouldn't have shoved him as I believe there was no need. All the officer succeeded in doing was make the situation worse as everyone then pushed towards the police & social distancing went completely out the window.
If this guy had tried to breach the wall before then the officer would be justified but as far as we know that was not the case.
You have also conveniently ignored my question about the other officer not feeling the need to react in the same way.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 22:50 - Nov 9 with 1205 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 22:06 - Nov 8 by 26_Paz
Moral of the story is if the police tell you not to go somewhere and a big line of them form to physically stop you going to said place it’s probably not worth trying to walk there anyway, regardless of whether you have bag pipes or not.
Book marking this for when you start bleating about 'freedom' when Nigel Farage or Stephen Yaxley-Lennon next gets arrested.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 19:25 - Nov 9 by Enigma_Blue
I am not equating people going near me is the same. You were the one who asked me about people going to close to me during a pandemic and I gave you my answer.
You are desperately trying to get me to justify the officers actions. I have already said that if I was in his shoes i wouldn't have shoved him as I believe there was no need. All the officer succeeded in doing was make the situation worse as everyone then pushed towards the police & social distancing went completely out the window.
If this guy had tried to breach the wall before then the officer would be justified but as far as we know that was not the case.
You have also conveniently ignored my question about the other officer not feeling the need to react in the same way.
Yeah, you gave the bizarre answer that you wouldn't push someone in a supermarket even though they come up close.
But if there was a situation (let's say out on the street rather than someone buying groceries) where some prick came up close to you, deliberately, trying to provoke you into a response for some reason - would you let them get right up close during a pandemic, or push them away?
The other officer also pushes the guy, though not as forcefully as the first officer because the guy is closer to the first officer.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 11:17 - Nov 10 with 1110 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:32 - Nov 9 by Enigma_Blue
My mistake I read your post wrong. Apologies.
I am still entitled to my opinion that the officer's actions were not justified.
The reason I made that comment about being desperate to win an argument is the way people twist things or make up facts to try & argue their point.
For example Souper Jim posting that the police knew he was a trouble maker. He might have been but we don't know that for a fact so he shouldn't state it like it is.
Also you said that this guy deliberately walked into the officer during a pandemic. But that's not true he didn't deliberately walk into the officer if you look at the video there was a little gap between the two officers and he tried to walk through it, which was wrong and I am not defending his actions on this.
You are trying to make out that he deliberately barged straight into the officer that shoved him but that is simply not the case. If people are so convinced that they are right and someone is wrong there should be no need to try and twist things or worse make up facts.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2020 15:36]
The police knew he was a trouble maker because he turned up trying to get access to the cenotaph regardless of it being closed off and being told he had to wait, then marched up and down on the toes of the police cordon loudly playing the bagpipes in their faces.
He was acting like a berk and a trouble maker, that's not me twisting anything or making up facts, it is demonstrably true just from the few seconds of video prior to him trying to push through the police lines. Why your eyes can't see that is anyone's guess, it's right there in the video. His actions are not the actions of some innocent member of the public, a little old lady or anything else you want to make an absurd comparison with. If a police officer had shoved over some frail old veteran who accidentally wandered into their lines then absolutely you would be right to question their actions. But very clearly that is not what happened here.
The police were attempting to ensure the remembrance service at the cenotaph went off with dignity and respect, while maintaining the safety of those involved during a pandemic. I find your determination to try paint this idiot who tried to disrupt that as some kind of victim, utterly shameful.
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 09:51 - Nov 10 by The_Flashing_Smile
Yeah, you gave the bizarre answer that you wouldn't push someone in a supermarket even though they come up close.
But if there was a situation (let's say out on the street rather than someone buying groceries) where some prick came up close to you, deliberately, trying to provoke you into a response for some reason - would you let them get right up close during a pandemic, or push them away?
The other officer also pushes the guy, though not as forcefully as the first officer because the guy is closer to the first officer.
You are beginning to get on my nerves now. It was not a bizzarre answer, you asked me a question about what I would do if someone got too close to me during a pandemic and I have you an answer. That was your exact question to me. You want a more specific answer then ask a more specific question. But the thing is I did actually answer the question that you have now posed to me previously, when I said if I thought someone was deliberately trying to walk into me I might push them. But what I would or wouldn't do is completely irrelevant I am not a police officer and have not been part of a police wall.This is just false equivalence. Also the police officer at the time doesn't know this guy deliberately did it to get a reaction all he saw was the guy turning and heading for the gap inbetween them.
There is new information that actually provides more context to the situation people who watched the live feed have said the police informed the veterans at 10:30 they couldn’t go to lay wreaths or pay respects until 12:00. At 12 the police then told them that they would have to wait until 12:30. At 12:30 the police said they could now go down their to pay respects. They marched towards the memorial but were then stopped and told they could not go any closer than the cones in the road.(about a block away from the memorial) they then proceeded onwards towards the memorial and where met yet again with a wall of police that refused them to past through and lay wreaths and pay respects. The communications by the police were terrible. By this stage the veterans were getting extremely frustrated and annoyed and some believed(rightly or wrongly) the police were deliberately messing them about. So by this stage the veterans were extremely frustrated and tensions with the police were running high. Then 10 minutes later is when the incident with the piper occured.
Now I am not for one minute saying this condones the piper actions but if this turns out to be true(and I am trying to find a recording of the live feed) that makes the police officer 's decision to shove him like that worse because it made a tense and emotional situation with the veterans even worse, and we saw the result.
Now I think I have justified my opinion well enough even prior to this post. I have already changed my opinion from totally condemning the police officer and not blaming the piper to condemning both of their actions. I think condemning them both is not an unreasonable or controversial opinion just because my opinion on here is in the minority(that means f all). There are plenty of comments on YouTube and other social media that share the same opinion as me(doesn't make me right or wrong)even now knowing the guy did it deliberately.
There are people on here who really are going to have to learn to live with other people's opinions that differ from theirs.
So for the last time I stand by my opinion on the officer's actions and will only change that opinion if it turns out the piper had previously tried to breach the police wall. So there is no point you or anyone else asking me anymore stupid & pointless questions about what I would or wouldn't do in a particular scenario is it is completely irrelevant.
[Post edited 10 Nov 2020 12:49]
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 13:11 - Nov 10 with 1058 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 12:34 - Nov 10 by Enigma_Blue
You are beginning to get on my nerves now. It was not a bizzarre answer, you asked me a question about what I would do if someone got too close to me during a pandemic and I have you an answer. That was your exact question to me. You want a more specific answer then ask a more specific question. But the thing is I did actually answer the question that you have now posed to me previously, when I said if I thought someone was deliberately trying to walk into me I might push them. But what I would or wouldn't do is completely irrelevant I am not a police officer and have not been part of a police wall.This is just false equivalence. Also the police officer at the time doesn't know this guy deliberately did it to get a reaction all he saw was the guy turning and heading for the gap inbetween them.
There is new information that actually provides more context to the situation people who watched the live feed have said the police informed the veterans at 10:30 they couldn’t go to lay wreaths or pay respects until 12:00. At 12 the police then told them that they would have to wait until 12:30. At 12:30 the police said they could now go down their to pay respects. They marched towards the memorial but were then stopped and told they could not go any closer than the cones in the road.(about a block away from the memorial) they then proceeded onwards towards the memorial and where met yet again with a wall of police that refused them to past through and lay wreaths and pay respects. The communications by the police were terrible. By this stage the veterans were getting extremely frustrated and annoyed and some believed(rightly or wrongly) the police were deliberately messing them about. So by this stage the veterans were extremely frustrated and tensions with the police were running high. Then 10 minutes later is when the incident with the piper occured.
Now I am not for one minute saying this condones the piper actions but if this turns out to be true(and I am trying to find a recording of the live feed) that makes the police officer 's decision to shove him like that worse because it made a tense and emotional situation with the veterans even worse, and we saw the result.
Now I think I have justified my opinion well enough even prior to this post. I have already changed my opinion from totally condemning the police officer and not blaming the piper to condemning both of their actions. I think condemning them both is not an unreasonable or controversial opinion just because my opinion on here is in the minority(that means f all). There are plenty of comments on YouTube and other social media that share the same opinion as me(doesn't make me right or wrong)even now knowing the guy did it deliberately.
There are people on here who really are going to have to learn to live with other people's opinions that differ from theirs.
So for the last time I stand by my opinion on the officer's actions and will only change that opinion if it turns out the piper had previously tried to breach the police wall. So there is no point you or anyone else asking me anymore stupid & pointless questions about what I would or wouldn't do in a particular scenario is it is completely irrelevant.
[Post edited 10 Nov 2020 12:49]
I'm perfectly happy for you to have your opinion, I'm just challenging it.
You admit you might push someone away if they were coming up close like that, so I'm not sure why you think police officers should be any different.
The police aren't there to mess people about, they're doing their job keeping the public safe. These weren't some lovely old veterans just wanting to show their respects at the Cenotaph, they were there looking for trouble and have been filmed admitting to it.
The types shouting disgrace on youtube are the same types as them - looking to provoke the police so they can shout 'foul'. People are trying to get this officer sacked. Given that we know now the whole thing was planned to provoke a reaction THAT is what's disgraceful about all this, not an officer pushing someone back in line.
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