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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 12:34 - Nov 10 by Enigma_Blue
You are beginning to get on my nerves now. It was not a bizzarre answer, you asked me a question about what I would do if someone got too close to me during a pandemic and I have you an answer. That was your exact question to me. You want a more specific answer then ask a more specific question. But the thing is I did actually answer the question that you have now posed to me previously, when I said if I thought someone was deliberately trying to walk into me I might push them. But what I would or wouldn't do is completely irrelevant I am not a police officer and have not been part of a police wall.This is just false equivalence. Also the police officer at the time doesn't know this guy deliberately did it to get a reaction all he saw was the guy turning and heading for the gap inbetween them.
There is new information that actually provides more context to the situation people who watched the live feed have said the police informed the veterans at 10:30 they couldn’t go to lay wreaths or pay respects until 12:00. At 12 the police then told them that they would have to wait until 12:30. At 12:30 the police said they could now go down their to pay respects. They marched towards the memorial but were then stopped and told they could not go any closer than the cones in the road.(about a block away from the memorial) they then proceeded onwards towards the memorial and where met yet again with a wall of police that refused them to past through and lay wreaths and pay respects. The communications by the police were terrible. By this stage the veterans were getting extremely frustrated and annoyed and some believed(rightly or wrongly) the police were deliberately messing them about. So by this stage the veterans were extremely frustrated and tensions with the police were running high. Then 10 minutes later is when the incident with the piper occured.
Now I am not for one minute saying this condones the piper actions but if this turns out to be true(and I am trying to find a recording of the live feed) that makes the police officer 's decision to shove him like that worse because it made a tense and emotional situation with the veterans even worse, and we saw the result.
Now I think I have justified my opinion well enough even prior to this post. I have already changed my opinion from totally condemning the police officer and not blaming the piper to condemning both of their actions. I think condemning them both is not an unreasonable or controversial opinion just because my opinion on here is in the minority(that means f all). There are plenty of comments on YouTube and other social media that share the same opinion as me(doesn't make me right or wrong)even now knowing the guy did it deliberately.
There are people on here who really are going to have to learn to live with other people's opinions that differ from theirs.
So for the last time I stand by my opinion on the officer's actions and will only change that opinion if it turns out the piper had previously tried to breach the police wall. So there is no point you or anyone else asking me anymore stupid & pointless questions about what I would or wouldn't do in a particular scenario is it is completely irrelevant.
[Post edited 10 Nov 2020 12:49]
Why are you doing this? You've been told numerous times that the piper has admitted he'd stage-managed the whole thing as a deliberate provocation. It's not as though he's a frail 80 year old simply trying to pay his respects.
You might also consider that banging the big drum about such trivial police reactions could have unfortunate consequences when it comes to sometimes needing to shout very loudly about *serious* police brutality or other unacceptable behaviour. People might remember ott protests at incidents like this & shrug their shoulders, thinking "he's crying wolf", rather than bother to look more deeply into incidents where there really is cause for major concern.
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 13:11 - Nov 10 by The_Flashing_Smile
I'm perfectly happy for you to have your opinion, I'm just challenging it.
You admit you might push someone away if they were coming up close like that, so I'm not sure why you think police officers should be any different.
The police aren't there to mess people about, they're doing their job keeping the public safe. These weren't some lovely old veterans just wanting to show their respects at the Cenotaph, they were there looking for trouble and have been filmed admitting to it.
The types shouting disgrace on youtube are the same types as them - looking to provoke the police so they can shout 'foul'. People are trying to get this officer sacked. Given that we know now the whole thing was planned to provoke a reaction THAT is what's disgraceful about all this, not an officer pushing someone back in line.
IMO.
What you and others need to do is forget about the fact it was a deliberate act. We only know this because he admitted it, if he hadn't if done that we wouldn't have known although some people may have had suspicions.
IMO the officer's actions was OTT and it made the situation worse which it did. Although they had to do was block his path. If the piper then continued to try to push through then I believe the officer would be within his rights to push him back.
The way you & Souper Jim are going on its like you are trying to make out that this Piper had planned from the off that morning or even the night before to be confrontational and a trouble maker towards the police. Maybe he did but we don't know that for a fact. But given what people who watch the live feed have said it was frustration and annoyance that led to him doing what he did. Again I am not excusing what he did. When a person decides to break thought a police wall it is obvious that he is going to get some sort of reaction from the police. The Police were hardly going to let him push on through. My opinion is the the reaction of that particular officer was OTT to what the piper tried to do and it made the situation worse. Your opinion is it was justified. We will just have to agree to disagree on this.
I have no problem with people challenging my opinions but it has gone beyond that now. It's not like I have given an opinion but not bothered to explain my reason for it. I have given a reason and justified my opinion numerous times, you just don't agree. Now that's fine I don't agree with you but you are like a dog with a bone now, you just can't let it go because I don't agree with you. I think we should just leave it there and go away and do something more productive with our day.
Asking what I would or wouldn't do is irrelevant, police officers receive training on how to deal with certain situations. Even if I did react the same way as that officer in a particular situation that doesn't mean that I or the officer wouldn't deserve criticism.
My previous post was a little bit rude, I apologise. Enjoy the rest of your day.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 16:06 - Nov 10 with 428 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:50 - Nov 10 by Ryorry
Why are you doing this? You've been told numerous times that the piper has admitted he'd stage-managed the whole thing as a deliberate provocation. It's not as though he's a frail 80 year old simply trying to pay his respects.
You might also consider that banging the big drum about such trivial police reactions could have unfortunate consequences when it comes to sometimes needing to shout very loudly about *serious* police brutality or other unacceptable behaviour. People might remember ott protests at incidents like this & shrug their shoulders, thinking "he's crying wolf", rather than bother to look more deeply into incidents where there really is cause for major concern.
The only reason we know he did it deliberately is because he admitted it, which is a very strange thing to do if you ask me because any sympathy he may have had he has now lost.
The officer in question did not know when the piper came out playing his bagpipes he had planned to do it so trying to justify the officers actions this way is a very weak argument.
My argument is the officer didn't need to shove him back(and it was a shove) and made the situation worse which he did)
You think the officer pushing him back like that was trivial, well here is the thing. If the piper had cracked his head open on the kerb and died the officer in question in would be facing an involuntary manslaughter charge.
I am in no way comparing what the officer did to police brutality but it my opinion he overreacted(the other officer didn't feel the need to react the same way) and made the situation worse. Social distancing went completely out of the window.
I am not saying the officer should face disciplinary action or even get the sack, hopefully he will.learn to not react that way in future when there is no need because it could end up a lot worse.
That is my opinion on the situation based on the facts that we currently know, if further information I may change my opinion.I
The only reason I am still commenting on this incident is because people just can't except that I have a different opinion to them.
My opinion on this is perfectly reasonable IMO, if anyone doesn't agree then hit the abuse button and let Phil decide.
[Post edited 10 Nov 2020 16:10]
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 16:07 - Nov 10 with 424 views
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 16:06 - Nov 10 by Enigma_Blue
The only reason we know he did it deliberately is because he admitted it, which is a very strange thing to do if you ask me because any sympathy he may have had he has now lost.
The officer in question did not know when the piper came out playing his bagpipes he had planned to do it so trying to justify the officers actions this way is a very weak argument.
My argument is the officer didn't need to shove him back(and it was a shove) and made the situation worse which he did)
You think the officer pushing him back like that was trivial, well here is the thing. If the piper had cracked his head open on the kerb and died the officer in question in would be facing an involuntary manslaughter charge.
I am in no way comparing what the officer did to police brutality but it my opinion he overreacted(the other officer didn't feel the need to react the same way) and made the situation worse. Social distancing went completely out of the window.
I am not saying the officer should face disciplinary action or even get the sack, hopefully he will.learn to not react that way in future when there is no need because it could end up a lot worse.
That is my opinion on the situation based on the facts that we currently know, if further information I may change my opinion.I
The only reason I am still commenting on this incident is because people just can't except that I have a different opinion to them.
My opinion on this is perfectly reasonable IMO, if anyone doesn't agree then hit the abuse button and let Phil decide.
[Post edited 10 Nov 2020 16:10]
"The officer in question did not know when the piper came out playing his bagpipes he had planned to do it so trying to justify the officers actions this way is a very weak argument. "
You've had it pointed out to you repeatedly that this makes the copper's actions far more understandable, not less. He didn't know that the guy was just a disrespectful p*sstaking muppet, he could have been a total nutter for all he knew. "hopefully he will.learn to not react that way in future when there is no need because it could end up a lot worse. "
And hopefully the piper will learn not to distastefully use Remembrance Sunday as nothing more than an opportunity to sh*tstir and draw attention to himself...
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 16:24 - Nov 10 with 392 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 16:15 - Nov 10 by BlueLikeJazz
"The officer in question did not know when the piper came out playing his bagpipes he had planned to do it so trying to justify the officers actions this way is a very weak argument. "
You've had it pointed out to you repeatedly that this makes the copper's actions far more understandable, not less. He didn't know that the guy was just a disrespectful p*sstaking muppet, he could have been a total nutter for all he knew. "hopefully he will.learn to not react that way in future when there is no need because it could end up a lot worse. "
And hopefully the piper will learn not to distastefully use Remembrance Sunday as nothing more than an opportunity to sh*tstir and draw attention to himself...
If the veteran had his hands free I would agree but he was playing the bagpipes for crying out loud.
Yes hopefully they will both learn from the situation as I don't agree with the actions either of them took. That is my point.
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 16:50 - Nov 10 with 373 views
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 15:52 - Nov 10 by Enigma_Blue
What you and others need to do is forget about the fact it was a deliberate act. We only know this because he admitted it, if he hadn't if done that we wouldn't have known although some people may have had suspicions.
IMO the officer's actions was OTT and it made the situation worse which it did. Although they had to do was block his path. If the piper then continued to try to push through then I believe the officer would be within his rights to push him back.
The way you & Souper Jim are going on its like you are trying to make out that this Piper had planned from the off that morning or even the night before to be confrontational and a trouble maker towards the police. Maybe he did but we don't know that for a fact. But given what people who watch the live feed have said it was frustration and annoyance that led to him doing what he did. Again I am not excusing what he did. When a person decides to break thought a police wall it is obvious that he is going to get some sort of reaction from the police. The Police were hardly going to let him push on through. My opinion is the the reaction of that particular officer was OTT to what the piper tried to do and it made the situation worse. Your opinion is it was justified. We will just have to agree to disagree on this.
I have no problem with people challenging my opinions but it has gone beyond that now. It's not like I have given an opinion but not bothered to explain my reason for it. I have given a reason and justified my opinion numerous times, you just don't agree. Now that's fine I don't agree with you but you are like a dog with a bone now, you just can't let it go because I don't agree with you. I think we should just leave it there and go away and do something more productive with our day.
Asking what I would or wouldn't do is irrelevant, police officers receive training on how to deal with certain situations. Even if I did react the same way as that officer in a particular situation that doesn't mean that I or the officer wouldn't deserve criticism.
My previous post was a little bit rude, I apologise. Enjoy the rest of your day.
The way you & Souper Jim are going on its like you are trying to make out that this Piper had planned from the off that morning or even the night before to be confrontational and a trouble maker towards the police.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. His actions and subsequent admission prove that. The whole bloody country knew in advance that the remembrance service at the cenotaph was closed off to the public, it was all over the news. These idiots turned up anyway trying to make a point. Note the people in the footage holding banners, recording the police on their phones etc prior to the incident in question.
I'll tell you what, I agree that the copper on the left who gave him a bit of shove could have handled it better. In the face of considerable provocation, he could have maintained his composure, not given the idiots what they wanted and not escalated the situation. But Police officers are human beings trying to do a difficult job under extreme pressure, so the lapse in judgement in the heat of the moment is forgivable. I find your desperation to place so much negative attention on the people trying to maintain order, rather than those trying to destroy it, utterly baffling.
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the police. on 16:50 - Nov 10 by SouperJim
The way you & Souper Jim are going on its like you are trying to make out that this Piper had planned from the off that morning or even the night before to be confrontational and a trouble maker towards the police.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. His actions and subsequent admission prove that. The whole bloody country knew in advance that the remembrance service at the cenotaph was closed off to the public, it was all over the news. These idiots turned up anyway trying to make a point. Note the people in the footage holding banners, recording the police on their phones etc prior to the incident in question.
I'll tell you what, I agree that the copper on the left who gave him a bit of shove could have handled it better. In the face of considerable provocation, he could have maintained his composure, not given the idiots what they wanted and not escalated the situation. But Police officers are human beings trying to do a difficult job under extreme pressure, so the lapse in judgement in the heat of the moment is forgivable. I find your desperation to place so much negative attention on the people trying to maintain order, rather than those trying to destroy it, utterly baffling.
I know the police have a difficult job at times but like you say they are there to maintain order but by taking the action he did the officer failed to maintain order & made it worse. That is why I am criticising him which I think is fair, but my criticising of him in no way means I am making light of the pipers actions which were irresponsible and selfish.
The Centotaph was only to be closed for part of the day and the police kept delaying when they would be allowed to go to it. They may well have had valid reason to but I don't believe every single veteran turned up just to cause trouble, frustration and emotion got the better of some of them. That's why I would like to see footage of the build up to the incident.
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