| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 15:05 - Dec 14 with 1241 views | tractordownsouth |
I saw some stats the other day that suggested that both their death rate and economic hit have been worse than other Nordic countries, and not too far behind us. Suggests that the right wing fetishising of Sweden was misplaced. |  |
|  |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 17:11 - Dec 14 with 1064 views | Eireannach_gorm |
....but their possession stats are better! |  | | |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 19:34 - Dec 14 with 947 views | BlueBadger |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 15:05 - Dec 14 by tractordownsouth |
I saw some stats the other day that suggested that both their death rate and economic hit have been worse than other Nordic countries, and not too far behind us. Suggests that the right wing fetishising of Sweden was misplaced. |
Good piece in the current edition of The Eye by Phil Hammond in his 'MD' guise which points out that the countries which have had the hardest economic hit are also those who've taken the most laissez-faire approach to controlling cvid in the name of 'protecting the economy'.
I'll have a look see if it's online. |  |
| |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 19:40 - Dec 14 with 920 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 19:34 - Dec 14 by BlueBadger |
Good piece in the current edition of The Eye by Phil Hammond in his 'MD' guise which points out that the countries which have had the hardest economic hit are also those who've taken the most laissez-faire approach to controlling cvid in the name of 'protecting the economy'.
I'll have a look see if it's online. |
Sweden didn’t have a “laissez-faire approach in the name of protecting the economy” though.
It’s more complicated and nuanced than that even from a purely public health perspective. |  |
| |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 19:41 - Dec 14 with 916 views | stantheman |
Meanwhile here all the crazies gather outside Parliament shouting guff. |  | | |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:00 - Dec 14 with 871 views | StokieBlue |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 19:40 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
Sweden didn’t have a “laissez-faire approach in the name of protecting the economy” though.
It’s more complicated and nuanced than that even from a purely public health perspective. |
In what way? Can you explain?
To the outsider it simply looks like they ignored the advice that the experts in virtually every other country were providing and now their figures look appalling compared to their closest and most directly comparable countries.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:14 - Dec 14 with 836 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:00 - Dec 14 by StokieBlue |
In what way? Can you explain?
To the outsider it simply looks like they ignored the advice that the experts in virtually every other country were providing and now their figures look appalling compared to their closest and most directly comparable countries.
SB |
They took a long-haul approach, that admittedly got off to a bad start with the sort of outbreak in Stockholm and in the care homes that was similar to Lombardy in Italy. The Nordic neighbours never experienced that except the slow-trickle outbreak that for example Germany experienced.
But nevertheless, right from the start, the major companies were told to keep workers at home and a furlough package was introduced just like in the UK. The difference was that more social businesses and schools were kept open to minimise the extended health and development effects of a lockdown. And of course people took it upon themselves to be careful and minimise unnecessary contact too.
I’m sure the UK neoliberal right loves Sweden because they think they’re putting the economy first but that’s just not true. The Health Authority (separate from the government and politics) is trying to put wider society and its health first. | |
| |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:18 - Dec 14 with 821 views | StokieBlue |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:14 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
They took a long-haul approach, that admittedly got off to a bad start with the sort of outbreak in Stockholm and in the care homes that was similar to Lombardy in Italy. The Nordic neighbours never experienced that except the slow-trickle outbreak that for example Germany experienced.
But nevertheless, right from the start, the major companies were told to keep workers at home and a furlough package was introduced just like in the UK. The difference was that more social businesses and schools were kept open to minimise the extended health and development effects of a lockdown. And of course people took it upon themselves to be careful and minimise unnecessary contact too.
I’m sure the UK neoliberal right loves Sweden because they think they’re putting the economy first but that’s just not true. The Health Authority (separate from the government and politics) is trying to put wider society and its health first. |
So if you agree with that approach you must disagree with the lockdowns in the UK then because implicit in your post is the fact that we must not be putting the health of wider society first?
Do you think that all still stands up to scrutiny given the numbers they have now which are appalling in comparison to their Scandinavian neighbours? Or are you convinced that longer term the health of Sweden will be better than that of Norway because they didn't lock down?
Given they are now closing schools for older kids and talking about lockdowns it could be seen as a failed approach as they will end up with the same issues as other countries that you have described but a lot more deaths.
SB [Post edited 14 Dec 2020 20:19]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:26 - Dec 14 with 788 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:18 - Dec 14 by StokieBlue |
So if you agree with that approach you must disagree with the lockdowns in the UK then because implicit in your post is the fact that we must not be putting the health of wider society first?
Do you think that all still stands up to scrutiny given the numbers they have now which are appalling in comparison to their Scandinavian neighbours? Or are you convinced that longer term the health of Sweden will be better than that of Norway because they didn't lock down?
Given they are now closing schools for older kids and talking about lockdowns it could be seen as a failed approach as they will end up with the same issues as other countries that you have described but a lot more deaths.
SB [Post edited 14 Dec 2020 20:19]
|
You’re trying to put words into my mouth about the UK’s response which has to take into account different cultural and epidemiological factors. But I don’t think the UK has done well from managing it politically no. As we go from lax to extreme depending on the way the wind blows.
And I’ve answered re: the neighbouring countries. If we put any stock in the K value and massively different spreads around the world, none of them experienced an outbreak like in Stockholm. Whereas Malmö, for example, was just like its neighbour Copenhagen. [Post edited 14 Dec 2020 20:29]
| |
| |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:36 - Dec 14 with 747 views | StokieBlue |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:26 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
You’re trying to put words into my mouth about the UK’s response which has to take into account different cultural and epidemiological factors. But I don’t think the UK has done well from managing it politically no. As we go from lax to extreme depending on the way the wind blows.
And I’ve answered re: the neighbouring countries. If we put any stock in the K value and massively different spreads around the world, none of them experienced an outbreak like in Stockholm. Whereas Malmö, for example, was just like its neighbour Copenhagen. [Post edited 14 Dec 2020 20:29]
|
Apologies, I didn't intend to put words into your mouth, it just seemed to be that your post implied that.
The current outbreak isn't confined to Stockholm so whilst that could be a superspreader event it doesn't seem likely for the other areas as well. I don't really see how that answers the points with regards to neighbouring countries.
The Sweden government itself has changed tack, schools are closing and gatherings are being limited. It's still not like the rest of Europe but it's heading that way.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:43 - Dec 14 with 724 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sweden's ICU situation not good on 20:36 - Dec 14 by StokieBlue |
Apologies, I didn't intend to put words into your mouth, it just seemed to be that your post implied that.
The current outbreak isn't confined to Stockholm so whilst that could be a superspreader event it doesn't seem likely for the other areas as well. I don't really see how that answers the points with regards to neighbouring countries.
The Sweden government itself has changed tack, schools are closing and gatherings are being limited. It's still not like the rest of Europe but it's heading that way.
SB |
The spread in the rest of Sweden has been relatively minimal and manageable. It’s now that the real first wave seems to be happening there. Similar in a way to Germany that looks to be dealing with an exponential rise for the first time.
With a wider and rapid spread then yes, the rules change and become stricter. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
