| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... 10:11 - May 10 with 3783 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
....that red wall voters can't relate to? |  |
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| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:39 - May 10 with 764 views | Darth_Koont |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:05 - May 10 by Clapham_Junction |
I'm not sure what's more painful. What the guy says, or the fact that the journalist doesn't step in at some point out who is responsible for all the things he complains about. |
Agree on the whole – and the BBC journalist could have and should have asked the question re 10 years of Tory government.
But I think the tragedy is they’re possibly not entirely wrong in their perspective and perception. Echoes what happened in Sçotland where the New Labour government sowed the seeds by not making all that much of a difference to many people’s lives and poorer communities compared to previous and later Tory governments. Certainly better, but fully a part of the downward trend and feeling they were being left behind.
Against that, they’ve always had a Labour MP too. If something is going to change then they’ll change what they can to make a difference (same was true for Brexit and the EU that really had nothing to do with what was happening to their communities). And with mayors like Houchen down the road in Teesside splashing the cash, maybe they thought a change to a Tory MP would bring some tangible difference finally?
As I said, that’s possibly what they were thinking and it seems to be borne out by the seemingly counter-intuitive support for the Tories elsewhere. The journalist missed a great opportunity to find out. |  |
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| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:43 - May 10 with 753 views | Clapham_Junction |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:10 - May 10 by pointofblue |
I’m hoping he may have done after the clip had finished, or is that wishful thinking? |
It is (Chris Mason is the journalist)
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| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:49 - May 10 with 734 views | SpruceMoose |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:12 - May 10 by itfcjoe |
They also talked about how there was no foodbanks when Labour in charge, and now there are 8 like it is a good thing.
They equate voting for Labour, and things getting worse, without the understanding that just because they voted for them it doesn't mean they have been in power.
How do you get a message through to people like that, people coherent enough to try and argue a point on TV and do so relatively cogently? They just have missed the point by so far |
"How do you get a message through to people like that, people coherent enough to try and argue a point on TV and do so relatively cogently? They just have missed the point by so far"
Well, over the last few years we have had the following suggestions:
- Apparently Labour need to be more like the Tories to win the vote of these folk. They need to offer up policies to appeal to people who have a worldview based on fantasies and inaccuracies.
- We have to listen to their very real concerns seriously, and pointing out contrary facts is elitism which will only lead to them doubling down on their points of view.
- Experts don't understand the working man. We should reduce reliance on evidence and facts, and instead appeal to feelings. The working man knows better than experts through the mystical powers of Common Sense and Life Experience. Pointing out facts that are contrary to the sacred tenants of Common Sense/Life Experience is also elitism.
- "Woke" culture forces progressive policies down the working class throats rendering them somehow incapable or unwilling to consider alternative approaches to the status quo. How these apparently "woke" policies are being implemented is a complete mystery though, seeing as we have no progressive politicians anywhere within a sniff of power, and in fact that we are lead by such backwards looking politicians that the UK is unwilling to feed it's poorest children in order to teach their impoverished parents some kind of lesson. The idea that the UK could be considered remotely "woke" as a whole is ridiculous.
Labour has been portrayed by the Conservatives and their allies in the media as a left wing progressive extremist party, when they are in fact no such thing. Labour are now carrying the can for not only the Conservatives disastrous social policies, but also the unimplemented social policies of those on the progressive left.
It's utterly depressing, and I see very little discussion that these kind of people know full well what they are voting for and they in fact like what they get when they vote for it. I'm tired of making excuses for people. Saying they've all been mugged off is letting them off the hook massively.
I personally believe that there are many, many people motivated by the false, terrifying belief that a vote for anyone other than the Tories may just improve the life of someone elsewhere that they either don't want to see improved, or don't believe deserves to be improved.
Britain has become an even more petty, insular place over the last 15 years, becoming more like the US every day. [Post edited 10 May 2021 16:55]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:53 - May 10 with 720 views | Darth_Koont |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:43 - May 10 by Clapham_Junction |
It is (Chris Mason is the journalist)
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Yes, I’ve seen the rest of it.
Mason takes the decimation of local health services as his obvious cue to ask about the guy’s two new kids. So some softball human interest chat then “Back to the studio.”
Weak stuff. | |
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| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 17:13 - May 10 with 694 views | Clapham_Junction |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:07 - May 10 by Steve_M |
Osborne and Cameron's intent was that it would be local councils who took the blame for 'austerity', it works even better if voters blame backbench Labour MPs.
It's quite telling though that two relatively thoughtful members of the public are very clear about what they think isn't working but don;t understand the cause.
I do wonder how much the decline of local media, as much as it's replacement by Facebook, is a cause here. |
Re the local media, part of me says yes, but on the other hand, some local papers can be just as bad as the tabloids. Getting people angry at the local council has long been a way of increasing circulation/clicks. | | | |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 23:00 - May 10 with 633 views | Swansea_Blue |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:27 - May 10 by jeera |
Holy sh!t.
Ffs. |
Quite. And all good points from others in response to this clip. How on earth do you get through to people who don’t understand the basics and can’t critique what they’re being told in campaigns and certain sections of the media. It’s an impossible task. |  |
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| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 23:25 - May 10 with 614 views | pointofblue |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 16:43 - May 10 by Clapham_Junction |
It is (Chris Mason is the journalist)
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It’d be more interesting to find out why they thought it was Labour’s fault rather than the government’s. It’d have been interesting if the guys replied that neighbouring constituencies which had a Tory MP had better services than their own... |  |
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| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 01:04 - May 11 with 575 views | jeera |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 23:25 - May 10 by pointofblue |
It’d be more interesting to find out why they thought it was Labour’s fault rather than the government’s. It’d have been interesting if the guys replied that neighbouring constituencies which had a Tory MP had better services than their own... |
Quite, no way you could just leave it there is there?
Even if it was off camera afterwards I'd be quizzing them for some kind of reasoning.
Then maybe write it up later to try to add some context, if there is any. |  |
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| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 06:58 - May 11 with 527 views | daisyisabaddog |
I did a little door knocking last week. One Tory voter told me that Starmer is too clever for his own good. He looked a bit confused when I pointed out that it was good to have a clever Prime Minister | | | |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 07:36 - May 11 with 513 views | GlasgowBlue |
I wouldn’t worry about Starmer too much Banksy. If the rumours are to be believed he is a dead man walking and in a similar position as T May was in her final year.
Tried to sack Rayner on Saturday and was told she had the numbers to challenge him for the leadership, and she’s ended up being Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, Shadow Secretary of State for the Future of Work and Shadow First Secretary of State.
You’ll either see a much more left friendly Starmer or he won’t last the year. |  |
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| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 07:42 - May 11 with 506 views | DanTheMan |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 15:41 - May 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Because his party's austerity policies have decimated public services over the last 11 years. Everyone knows this, as these gentlemen form Hartlepool explain.
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I don't understand how that is the conclusion they have arrived at. |  |
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| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 08:46 - May 11 with 443 views | Herbivore |
| What is it about Kier 'People's vote' Starmer.... on 15:41 - May 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Because his party's austerity policies have decimated public services over the last 11 years. Everyone knows this, as these gentlemen form Hartlepool explain.
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Exactly the same kind of lines were coming out in 2019 as well. A lot of traditional Labour supporting areas saw voting Tory as a vote for change, even though the Tories had been in government for 9.5 years at that point and the huge cuts to local services were down to their austerity policies rather than their local Labour MP.
When that goes unchallenged it's hard to see how you begin to start having a sensible political debate again. The Tories have been feeding people sh!t sandwiches for years and yet more areas are voting for them in the hope that it'll make things different.
The Tories have a large base that will always vote for them regardles; perpetually terrified rural-dwelling pensioners would sooner their child was one of them there trannies than vote Labour. What the Tories have now managed to do is tap into some of that sense of fear of change in red wall areas, as well as a general disillusionment with traditional politics, and they have totally undermined Labour's traditional base as a result. Labour, typically, responds by in fighting and having an existential crisis rather than working out how to try to reconnect with these voters.
In short, we're totally, totally screwed, likely for decades to come. |  |
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