| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR 14:04 - May 22 with 5805 views | lightuser |
Feck protesting at airports and banks.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57210428
But what do you think?
Bunch of morons/about time/there must be a better way etc? [Post edited 22 May 2021 14:10]
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:50 - May 23 with 865 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 10:19 - May 23 by bluelagos |
There is the detail, and the principle. Am sure cleverer people than you and me can fine tune it, but we need an air tax system that targets frequent flyers.
I posted up before, an email I sent on this in 1997. I was working in consultancy and could see how frequent flyers were being encouraged by the airlines. They still are and we need to reverse this mindset. |
There is already a proposal out there: https://afreeride.org/
Basically you get one tax-free flight a year and then an escalating tax rate for every subsequent flight. |  | | |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:51 - May 23 with 856 views | m14_blue |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:36 - May 23 by Ryorry |
He didn't say that he thought the concerned individuals were weirdos, if I've understood him correctly he thought they would be regarded as weirdos by those members of the public who go to Big-Mac for their burgers & who neither think nor care about their food or where it comes from, and I have to say I agree with that surmise.
I completely support XR & their aims, but think they've completely misunderstood their "audience" here. I fear that hoisting themselves up on those tripod structures will simply reinforce the prejudices of Big Mac customers, make them more likely to dismiss them *and* their aims as "weird" or "ridiculous", and that those particular actions are therefore counterproductive. |
I don't know.
I understand the reservations about stopping people going to work/on holiday etc but this seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me.
No one's going to be seriously disrupted by this and yet it still makes headlines and gets people's attention.
Anyone that still dismisses XR's aims as weird and ridiculous at this point is probably beyond help, they're not the target for this sort of demo. | | | |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:52 - May 23 with 850 views | eireblue |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:36 - May 23 by Ryorry |
He didn't say that he thought the concerned individuals were weirdos, if I've understood him correctly he thought they would be regarded as weirdos by those members of the public who go to Big-Mac for their burgers & who neither think nor care about their food or where it comes from, and I have to say I agree with that surmise.
I completely support XR & their aims, but think they've completely misunderstood their "audience" here. I fear that hoisting themselves up on those tripod structures will simply reinforce the prejudices of Big Mac customers, make them more likely to dismiss them *and* their aims as "weird" or "ridiculous", and that those particular actions are therefore counterproductive. |
Observing a simple protest by a Buddhist monk helped changed my career.
I wonder how many people fit into the intersection of people that are now working from home happily, and were also annoyed by XR disrupting commuters.
Anyhoo, as I mentioned above, you don’t need to get everyone onside at once. |  | | |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:58 - May 23 with 835 views | DanTheMan |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:47 - May 23 by Ryorry |
I'm sure there are ways of making things visible without the kind of bizarre tripod-hoisting that the average MacD customer is probably just going to laugh at & dismiss. Weren't some of those found to be effective in that TV series a few months ago, where 2 teams - one full on fairly aggressive, the other with a more gentle explanation accompanied by bullet point facts & figures approach - competed with each other? Can't remember name of show or exact date, but it was on a mainstream terrestial channel - BBC, ITV, or C4. |
"the other with a more gentle explanation accompanied by bullet point facts & figures approach - competed with each other?"
But this brings me back to my other point that this is precisely what has been done over decades which hasn't gained us enough ground. I mean this generally in regards to the climate issue as opposed to strictly veganism. |  |
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:59 - May 23 with 834 views | Ryorry |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:51 - May 23 by m14_blue |
I don't know.
I understand the reservations about stopping people going to work/on holiday etc but this seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me.
No one's going to be seriously disrupted by this and yet it still makes headlines and gets people's attention.
Anyone that still dismisses XR's aims as weird and ridiculous at this point is probably beyond help, they're not the target for this sort of demo. |
If it were only unthinking, uncaring people whose income only allows them to treat themselves at MacDs I'd agree, but fear middle-grounders who might otherwise be won over, will also be alienated by what to anyone not already committed to "the cause", just looks bizarre. |  |
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 13:02 - May 23 with 830 views | m14_blue |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:59 - May 23 by Ryorry |
If it were only unthinking, uncaring people whose income only allows them to treat themselves at MacDs I'd agree, but fear middle-grounders who might otherwise be won over, will also be alienated by what to anyone not already committed to "the cause", just looks bizarre. |
Fair enough, I can see where you're coming from but I would consider myself one of the middle-grounders (certainly not too proud for the odd Big Tasty Meal) and not sure I agree with your conclusion. | | | |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 13:06 - May 23 with 823 views | Ryorry |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:58 - May 23 by DanTheMan |
"the other with a more gentle explanation accompanied by bullet point facts & figures approach - competed with each other?"
But this brings me back to my other point that this is precisely what has been done over decades which hasn't gained us enough ground. I mean this generally in regards to the climate issue as opposed to strictly veganism. |
I think it has actually been very effective - as others have already pointed out, you've only got to look at what major shops/supermarkets are stocking now compared with 20 years ago & how eating habits have changed, with people reducing their meat consumption if not cutting it out altogether
I myself was won over by that approach, including posts on here from yourself & Eireblue, whereas some of the actions of XR just annoyed me (tho as I said, I agree with their general aims). | |
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 15:18 - May 23 with 786 views | WeWereZombies |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 13:06 - May 23 by Ryorry |
I think it has actually been very effective - as others have already pointed out, you've only got to look at what major shops/supermarkets are stocking now compared with 20 years ago & how eating habits have changed, with people reducing their meat consumption if not cutting it out altogether
I myself was won over by that approach, including posts on here from yourself & Eireblue, whereas some of the actions of XR just annoyed me (tho as I said, I agree with their general aims). |
There is still an awful lot of junk on supermarket shelves, and some of the vegetarian ready meal are just as bad as meat ones for unnecessary chemicals - well unnecessary for us and also bad for our health but necessary for the type of food producer who wants to put a craving for more bad stuff upon us. The clock is ticking and we, as a species, are making awfully slow progress to circumvent our own demise.
Didn't someone once saw something like 'This isn't the beginning of the end but it might just be the end of the beginning...' We have once heck of a pace to pick up now, and we have to get on track with all of our senses alert and rationally functional, not easy when you have catastrophe breathing down your neck (as our team found out a few months after Lambert took over.) |  |
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 16:03 - May 23 with 772 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 14:47 - May 22 by bluelagos |
We can argue about the numbers, but the point being we should be looking to discourage needless flights. Need a shift of thinking away from the lads trip to Prague or the second home in the Dordogne, nice as they both are.
Be interesting to know how much of a difference reducing your meat intake by say 50% compared to reducing your leisure flights by 50% would make? Of course doing both by 100% would be better but starting with achievable steps is more sensible for most of us. |
There'll he no reduction in eating meat from myself or anyone I know. The amount of nonsense written on this message board has reached levels hitherto unseen. |  |
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 16:47 - May 23 with 758 views | lightuser |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 16:03 - May 23 by The_Last_Baron |
There'll he no reduction in eating meat from myself or anyone I know. The amount of nonsense written on this message board has reached levels hitherto unseen. |
Excellent, perhaps the thread's first troll?
Care to elaborate with some reasons for your statement Mr Baron?
Do you wish to go down the "but china and pissing in the wind" route, the "climate change and carbon usage is bollux" route, the "I don't care about pollution, water wastage, denuding the rainforests and landscape etc for meat production" route, the "I don't mind killing something if I get a hit to my taste buds" route. Or something else? | | | |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 17:34 - May 23 with 737 views | WeWereZombies |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 16:03 - May 23 by The_Last_Baron |
There'll he no reduction in eating meat from myself or anyone I know. The amount of nonsense written on this message board has reached levels hitherto unseen. |
Maybe you just have a very limited social circle... | |
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 18:20 - May 23 with 714 views | bluelagos |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:50 - May 23 by Clapham_Junction |
There is already a proposal out there: https://afreeride.org/
Basically you get one tax-free flight a year and then an escalating tax rate for every subsequent flight. |
Sounds like an excellent idea :-) Just need some politicians to grow a pair and make it happen. |  |
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 18:26 - May 23 with 709 views | bluelagos |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 16:03 - May 23 by The_Last_Baron |
There'll he no reduction in eating meat from myself or anyone I know. The amount of nonsense written on this message board has reached levels hitherto unseen. |
Thanks for your contribution. Your point does highlight exactly why some people are targeting organisations/politicians to be the agents of change.
Simply put, if they leave it to Jo public to change existing habits then many people, as you highlight, will not do anything such is their indifference to the climate emergency we are facing. And we may not have the luxury of waiting for people like you and your friends to come round to the point where they will change their habits voluntarily. | |
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 18:37 - May 23 with 697 views | jeera |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 16:03 - May 23 by The_Last_Baron |
There'll he no reduction in eating meat from myself or anyone I know. The amount of nonsense written on this message board has reached levels hitherto unseen. |
Loving the new avatar.
Is that how you want to be seen by other people? [Post edited 23 May 2021 18:39]
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 19:34 - May 23 with 653 views | Ryorry |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 15:18 - May 23 by WeWereZombies |
There is still an awful lot of junk on supermarket shelves, and some of the vegetarian ready meal are just as bad as meat ones for unnecessary chemicals - well unnecessary for us and also bad for our health but necessary for the type of food producer who wants to put a craving for more bad stuff upon us. The clock is ticking and we, as a species, are making awfully slow progress to circumvent our own demise.
Didn't someone once saw something like 'This isn't the beginning of the end but it might just be the end of the beginning...' We have once heck of a pace to pick up now, and we have to get on track with all of our senses alert and rationally functional, not easy when you have catastrophe breathing down your neck (as our team found out a few months after Lambert took over.) |
I don't disagree with any of that, was just pointing out that some of the tactics used will actually turn people off, not on. I do think the majority of UK people are fairly sensible, and respond better to sensible tactics - but the argument needs to be put in front of them in a way that attracts their attention & engages them, not as a stunt that has them laughing it off with "you cannot be serious".
As an example, numerous people said after the 'Blue Planet' series that finished by focussing on the damage caused by plastic waste, that Sir DA had let the cause down because he'd only appealed to us as individuals to cut down our plastic waste, he hadn't castigated big businesses or Governments. Yet here we are a few years later with huge strides having been made in recycling (still not enough of course) simply because his words struck home to the consciousness of millions of individuals, who've consequently changed their habits, voted with their feet in shopping preferences for recyclable or environmentally friendly packaging over single-use plastics, and put pressure on local & national govtss. | |
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| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 23:02 - May 23 with 622 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 18:37 - May 23 by jeera |
Loving the new avatar.
Is that how you want to be seen by other people? [Post edited 23 May 2021 18:39]
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Pep Cigar. | |
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