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Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 18:26 - May 22 by WeWereZombies
Read your posts back, aloud if necessary. Yours are classic 'do nothing' arguments. Very spouty.
And the link has China down as wasting one tenth of its food and the United Kingdom as wasting one third. We do worse per capita but the volume is greater in China because there are a lot more Chinese.
And, yes, I have been beach cleaning today and am in a bit of a fecked off mood.
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 18:26 - May 22 by WeWereZombies
Read your posts back, aloud if necessary. Yours are classic 'do nothing' arguments. Very spouty.
And the link has China down as wasting one tenth of its food and the United Kingdom as wasting one third. We do worse per capita but the volume is greater in China because there are a lot more Chinese.
And, yes, I have been beach cleaning today and am in a bit of a fecked off mood.
Silly me for thinking when you said only the United States creates more food waste than the United Kingdom you meant only the United States creates more food waste than the United Kingdom. But LOL at the idea the Chinese are being honest about how much food they waste. Those famously transparent Communists. And again, I literally don’t say “do nothing” but do in fact say protest and activism is good and should be encouraged which, if you thought about it for more than two seconds, is in fact the opposite. I think you have overdone the beach cleaning and should have a nice cuppa and a sit down, and think about what you’ve done.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 14:46 - May 22 by chicoazul
Activism is a noble British tradition and should be encouraged. To each his own cause. I’ll be impressed with XR when they show up in China and protest there, though.
Aren’t you impressed enough by the local environmental protesters in China?
Would you be more impressed with Chinese protesters if they came over here, rather than being impressed with English protesters?
“Fair play, it is annoying when the locals stop traffic, but when foreigners travel so far to do it I tip my hat.”
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Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 20:09 - May 22 with 1093 views
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 17:19 - May 22 by chicoazul
It’s not “deflecting”, this is such a lazy way to make an argument. People love to say deflecting or whatabouttery when they hear an argument they don’t like. The whole point is, there is nothing any of us can do about China and therefore at a larger level, about the enormous pollution they are responsible for. And so it’s also pointless for hypocritical Marxist middle class yoghurt knitters - of whom XR almost universally are - to sit on trains or in the middle of the road preventing people going about their days given what a tiny and insignificant country we are.
Why are they hypocritical?
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Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 09:54 - May 23 with 977 views
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 14:29 - May 22 by bluelagos
Motorbike and tunnel, same as my last holiday. Actually looks like it will be motorbike and no tunnel given quarantine etc.
Your point is valid though and highlights why we need to get firmer on discouraging/limiting leisure travel, particularly the weekenders we all love. Have said before I reckon we should have an increasing tax on flights - £100 first one, then £1000 then £10k...
Leave it up to individuals and we end up with what we have now - far too many flights etc. But legislate and we all have to adapt, whether we are happy to or not.
Back on topic, if by their actions the protestors highlight and speed up the veganisation of fast food (is that a word?) then all's good. Don't see your scenario as a bad thing.
I agree with your point, but I can’t see this affecting those with the financial means to do so, it would be a shame for many (especially children) to be denied the chance of foreign travel and exposure to different cultures ?
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Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 10:01 - May 23 with 972 views
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 14:17 - May 22 by bluelagos
Quite simply, if anyone who objects to these guys taking direct action to try and bring about much needed change with respect to the ongoing destruction of our planet, if they have an alternative method of bringing about change, am all ears.
In the absence of a credible alternative, am grateful to these guys/protestors for everything they do and applaud them without hesitation.
I think history will recognise the exceptional change in attitude / policy they are helping bring around, in a similar way to how the suffragettes are now held in high esteem. Many people slated them at the time yet history proved them right.
Sometimes there are more important causes and stepping outside of the law is fully justified. I won't be condemning them.
do you think that a protest like this will have any effect on people who buy burgers? i don't doubt the need for change but things like this only go down well with the people who already agree. it's reinforcing positions not changing minds.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 09:54 - May 23 by solomon
I agree with your point, but I can’t see this affecting those with the financial means to do so, it would be a shame for many (especially children) to be denied the chance of foreign travel and exposure to different cultures ?
I was thinking about this. It could be done by tax bracket.
Basic - £25, £100, £1000
Higher - £100, £1000, £10,000
Additional - £1000, £10,000, £100,000, £1,000,000
Realistically would limit the first two groups to 2 flights a year unless. The third probably wouldn't pay £100,000 unless stupidly wealthy and it could all go into the fund for fighting climate change.
Perhaps a good first step would be airlines going entirely plant based for their menus.
Would limit most people to two flights a year (I assume return).
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 09:54 - May 23 by solomon
I agree with your point, but I can’t see this affecting those with the financial means to do so, it would be a shame for many (especially children) to be denied the chance of foreign travel and exposure to different cultures ?
Which is why I would have a relatively cheap first flight each year. It would also change behaviour away from short trips to long trips. Instead of taking 2 overseas hokidays and enjoying a couple of weekends away people would instead take 1 longer trip.
The business trip and the weekend away strike me as 2 areas where we need to seriously change our habits.
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 10:09 - May 23 by J2BLUE
I was thinking about this. It could be done by tax bracket.
Basic - £25, £100, £1000
Higher - £100, £1000, £10,000
Additional - £1000, £10,000, £100,000, £1,000,000
Realistically would limit the first two groups to 2 flights a year unless. The third probably wouldn't pay £100,000 unless stupidly wealthy and it could all go into the fund for fighting climate change.
Perhaps a good first step would be airlines going entirely plant based for their menus.
Would limit most people to two flights a year (I assume return).
There is the detail, and the principle. Am sure cleverer people than you and me can fine tune it, but we need an air tax system that targets frequent flyers.
I posted up before, an email I sent on this in 1997. I was working in consultancy and could see how frequent flyers were being encouraged by the airlines. They still are and we need to reverse this mindset.
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 10:01 - May 23 by lowhouseblue
do you think that a protest like this will have any effect on people who buy burgers? i don't doubt the need for change but things like this only go down well with the people who already agree. it's reinforcing positions not changing minds.
The protest will hopefully focus minds in various boardrooms about the fact that unless they address climate change, they will face an ever increasing backlash from an angry and militant group of protesters. And this could cost them significant disruption to their business models / profits.
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 10:01 - May 23 by lowhouseblue
do you think that a protest like this will have any effect on people who buy burgers? i don't doubt the need for change but things like this only go down well with the people who already agree. it's reinforcing positions not changing minds.
Well one alternative to this way that you see as ineffective would be armed resistance and terror attacks, are you suggesting that would be better?
If we are to cope with man made climate change, an ongoing set of species extinctions and habitat loss driven by that, a reduced set of natural resources that will fail to sustain an increasing population of human beings, not to mention the social discord that will result from all this (and already is in the shape of the refugee crisis) then much more needs to be done.
You would have to have been living under a rock to be unaware of how damaging the food in McDonalds is for your body so I think the case is that everyone knows that companies like that are doing things wrong. Hardly anyone, with their hand on their heart, can say that AR are wrong but perhaps hardcore users of junk food need more of the treatment to kick the habit?
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 10:12 - May 23 by bluelagos
Which is why I would have a relatively cheap first flight each year. It would also change behaviour away from short trips to long trips. Instead of taking 2 overseas hokidays and enjoying a couple of weekends away people would instead take 1 longer trip.
The business trip and the weekend away strike me as 2 areas where we need to seriously change our habits.
With everything that’s gone on in the last year the business trip should be consigned to history, as with lots of meetings they can be done perfectly well on line, currently hearing lots of comments like “you can’t beat a face to face meeting” but with little evidence to suggest there’s any real benefit at all.
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Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 11:35 - May 23 with 887 views
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 10:38 - May 23 by WeWereZombies
Well one alternative to this way that you see as ineffective would be armed resistance and terror attacks, are you suggesting that would be better?
If we are to cope with man made climate change, an ongoing set of species extinctions and habitat loss driven by that, a reduced set of natural resources that will fail to sustain an increasing population of human beings, not to mention the social discord that will result from all this (and already is in the shape of the refugee crisis) then much more needs to be done.
You would have to have been living under a rock to be unaware of how damaging the food in McDonalds is for your body so I think the case is that everyone knows that companies like that are doing things wrong. Hardly anyone, with their hand on their heart, can say that AR are wrong but perhaps hardcore users of junk food need more of the treatment to kick the habit?
you've got to change what the majority of people think and choose. a bunch of, what they think of as, weirdos inconveniencing them won't do that. it's much more likely to cause them to stop listening.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 11:43 - May 23 with 878 views
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 11:35 - May 23 by lowhouseblue
you've got to change what the majority of people think and choose. a bunch of, what they think of as, weirdos inconveniencing them won't do that. it's much more likely to cause them to stop listening.
How civil of you to refer to concerned individuals as weirdos.
One of the things that has led me to reassess my opinion of XR was watching Stephen Sackur's interview of Sir Ranulph Fiennes in which a spirited anti-communist in his seventies declares support for the movement to rapidly and concertedly change our lives - and to restore a balance that has been missing since prior to the Industrial Revolution at least.
With each day that passes it seems that millions more realise the need to find a better way forward, as I intimated it is the use of 'wake up calls' that helps people to make that change and your burying your head in the sand approach that fails.
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 11:35 - May 23 by lowhouseblue
you've got to change what the majority of people think and choose. a bunch of, what they think of as, weirdos inconveniencing them won't do that. it's much more likely to cause them to stop listening.
Ah so doing what we've already tried over the past few decades.
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 11:43 - May 23 by WeWereZombies
How civil of you to refer to concerned individuals as weirdos.
One of the things that has led me to reassess my opinion of XR was watching Stephen Sackur's interview of Sir Ranulph Fiennes in which a spirited anti-communist in his seventies declares support for the movement to rapidly and concertedly change our lives - and to restore a balance that has been missing since prior to the Industrial Revolution at least.
With each day that passes it seems that millions more realise the need to find a better way forward, as I intimated it is the use of 'wake up calls' that helps people to make that change and your burying your head in the sand approach that fails.
"of you to refer to concerned individuals as weirdos."
"your burying your head in the sand approach"
a great demonstration of the problem with trying to discuss stuff. people either lack comprehension skills or are just desperate to start a fight. i can't be bothered.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 11:59 - May 23 with 855 views
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 11:51 - May 23 by lowhouseblue
"of you to refer to concerned individuals as weirdos."
"your burying your head in the sand approach"
a great demonstration of the problem with trying to discuss stuff. people either lack comprehension skills or are just desperate to start a fight. i can't be bothered.
I suggest that you look at the contradictory nature of the quotes you use to try and make a point - I am not trying to start a fight, I am offering you advice on how to improve yourself. And warning you of the dangers of not doing so.
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 10:19 - May 23 by bluelagos
There is the detail, and the principle. Am sure cleverer people than you and me can fine tune it, but we need an air tax system that targets frequent flyers.
I posted up before, an email I sent on this in 1997. I was working in consultancy and could see how frequent flyers were being encouraged by the airlines. They still are and we need to reverse this mindset.
There are travel bloggers on Youtube who make a living taking unnecessary flights and blogging about them. In fact, even worse, one of them has 3-4 of them who go in every different class and then compare them.
Definitely needs some sort of crackdown.
As someone who enjoys their holidays this may interest you:
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 11:35 - May 23 by lowhouseblue
you've got to change what the majority of people think and choose. a bunch of, what they think of as, weirdos inconveniencing them won't do that. it's much more likely to cause them to stop listening.
I know what you mean but I think it's about more than stopping people getting their double quarter pounders. Stunts like this gain publicity and keep the issues front and centre at a time when much of our MSM is often preoccupied with other matters.
I also think that it does work, obviously not on everyone, but certainly on many.
A few years ago I would have been in the 'weirdo' camp and would have laughed at you if you'd suggested changing my diet.
Now, I have 2/3 meat free days a week and am far more conscientious about the impact my lifestyle has on the environment. Most of my mates are similar and we are a fairly typical group of 'lads' who have never been particularly engaged.
The dial is turning but it needs to turn more quickly and we should all be supporting XR and hoping they succeed.
[Post edited 23 May 2021 12:13]
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Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:35 - May 23 with 823 views
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 11:35 - May 23 by lowhouseblue
you've got to change what the majority of people think and choose. a bunch of, what they think of as, weirdos inconveniencing them won't do that. it's much more likely to cause them to stop listening.
You don’t need to change what a majority of people think.
What you need to get to is a tipping point.
Research on Social changes estimate that tipping point is between 10 to 40% of the population, with the average being 25%.
Over 20 years ago, when I was a vegan, there weren’t that many products in supermarkets and restaurants.
Now most supermarkets have plant based sections, even in the last two years that has dramatically changed.
Most restaurants burden me with choices.
The number of vegans is still not huge, but there has been a increase, and there has been a definite change.
Hopefully there is momentum building and a tipping point is being reached.
Hard to characterise a 10% populations as weirdos.
In surveys 14% of U.K. people say the follow a plant based diet, a further 12% think they will try to go veggie/vegan/plant based.
Once a tipping point is reached, things can change very quickly.
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Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:36 - May 23 with 820 views
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 11:43 - May 23 by WeWereZombies
How civil of you to refer to concerned individuals as weirdos.
One of the things that has led me to reassess my opinion of XR was watching Stephen Sackur's interview of Sir Ranulph Fiennes in which a spirited anti-communist in his seventies declares support for the movement to rapidly and concertedly change our lives - and to restore a balance that has been missing since prior to the Industrial Revolution at least.
With each day that passes it seems that millions more realise the need to find a better way forward, as I intimated it is the use of 'wake up calls' that helps people to make that change and your burying your head in the sand approach that fails.
He didn't say that he thought the concerned individuals were weirdos, if I've understood him correctly he thought they would be regarded as weirdos by those members of the public who go to Big-Mac for their burgers & who neither think nor care about their food or where it comes from, and I have to say I agree with that surmise.
I completely support XR & their aims, but think they've completely misunderstood their "audience" here. I fear that hoisting themselves up on those tripod structures will simply reinforce the prejudices of Big Mac customers, make them more likely to dismiss them *and* their aims as "weird" or "ridiculous", and that those particular actions are therefore counterproductive.
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:36 - May 23 by Ryorry
He didn't say that he thought the concerned individuals were weirdos, if I've understood him correctly he thought they would be regarded as weirdos by those members of the public who go to Big-Mac for their burgers & who neither think nor care about their food or where it comes from, and I have to say I agree with that surmise.
I completely support XR & their aims, but think they've completely misunderstood their "audience" here. I fear that hoisting themselves up on those tripod structures will simply reinforce the prejudices of Big Mac customers, make them more likely to dismiss them *and* their aims as "weird" or "ridiculous", and that those particular actions are therefore counterproductive.
The thing is, unless their protest is invisible and silent, people will complain about it.
The only good protest in a lot of peoples eyes is one they can entirely ignore.
Yay. Stuff XR, join AR on 12:37 - May 23 by DanTheMan
The thing is, unless their protest is invisible and silent, people will complain about it.
The only good protest in a lot of peoples eyes is one they can entirely ignore.
I'm sure there are ways of making things visible without the kind of bizarre tripod-hoisting that the average MacD customer is probably just going to laugh at & dismiss. Weren't some of those found to be effective in that TV series a few months ago, where 2 teams - one full on fairly aggressive, the other with a more gentle explanation accompanied by bullet point facts & figures approach - competed with each other? Can't remember name of show or exact date, but it was on a mainstream terrestial channel - BBC, ITV, or C4.
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