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I've removed that thread as the links in the original post were promoting inaccurate speculation regarding the pandemic. Am torn between leaving things like that up for them to be dissected and pulled apart - I think there's something to be said for that as the same misprepresentations will inevitably appear on wider social media - or removing them as soon as their lack of veracity is pointed out.
Bloody hell, after reading 4 pages of the original thread along with reading a huge amount of similar crud on FB from previous close friends yesterday.
Personally I think a certain 2 posters should take a break from simply stirring things up. Typical whataboutery, here is an expert you should listen to on YouTube. The biggest giveaway is when the mention the amount of followers such an expert has.
I'm sure Fauci (for example) has multiples of such follwers why don't those posters quote him?
I didn't realise he wasn't a MD so my mistake there and hands up. That being said as you have acknowledged he does still have a Master of Science in health science so is more than enough qualified to give a general opinion.
I have watched many of his videos throughout the pandemic and have found him knowlegable, informative and pretty honest. I have now re-watched the video and I really don't think your assessment is fair. Yes he does draw some correlations but not at any time does he arrive at any firm conclusions, he suggests a number of plausible explantions on Japan but doesn't make any definite claims. regarding why SARS disappeared he again gives a possible explanation but nothing definitive.
My original post was made with honest intentions, I genuinely thought it was a good news Covid story and a quite unique one that people would find interesting. Having had time to reflect I am still genuinely baffled as to why it generated such vitriol and why the post was removed.
I actually have a science background and know how to read scientific papers which is why I have posted them previously in the safe knowledge they were legitimate. I don't know what your exact background is Stokie, but it is clear you have some scientific knowledge also.
I believe that you know full well that claiming anything definitive about Japan at this stage is unscientific and that includes attributing it to vaccines and masks without having full and rigorous evidence to support that conclusion. So I am left wondering why you let other posters arrive at that conclusion without any sort of challenge at all?
The rest of this post goes to the board in general. I have been insulted today, I have had my views censored, been called a 'dangerous idiot' and told to 'stick to football' all for making a genuine post that I thought people might be interested in. I had to log off earlier on because I felt like I was being attacked from all angles. I really wish people would stop and think sometimes before they type because there is a person behind every user on this site and yes, sometimes what you say can really upset somebody in real life.
I have only been posting here for a few months but the pack mentality at times is really quite ugly, everybody seems to wade in to get a piece of the action when they sense that somebody is on the ropes. I have no doubt I will be ridiculed further for this and told I am 'playing the victim' etc.
The biggest irony is that the main posters handing out the abuse and nastiness are often the ones that post about mental health issues and about being kind to one another. Is it really so important to win the argument and shut down somebody else's point of view because it doesn't correspond exactly with your own?
I know that I have something worthwhile to contribute to covid and science debates on here, however it is clear that my views on this subject are not welcome by most and will only be met with future abuse which admin are seemingly quite happy to ignore from certain posters despite blatantly breaking the rules of the site. So I will refrain from posting any more non football content. If you want an echo chamber where everybody agrees and any alternative views are bullied and censored into silence, then perhaps that is what you deserve, but I can tell you now that is never a healthy thing in the long run.
There is absolutely no way that you have a (successful) scientific background.
Bloody hell, after reading 4 pages of the original thread along with reading a huge amount of similar crud on FB from previous close friends yesterday.
Personally I think a certain 2 posters should take a break from simply stirring things up. Typical whataboutery, here is an expert you should listen to on YouTube. The biggest giveaway is when the mention the amount of followers such an expert has.
I'm sure Fauci (for example) has multiples of such follwers why don't those posters quote him?
Thing is, you have to wonder why so keen to keep pushing the same agenda each and every day.
Me too. I was forced to after being the Pirate King in a school production of Pirates of Penzance in year 6. I probably wouldn’t comment on anybody’s singing technique though. I definitely wouldn’t post tweets from somebody who had an audition on Britain’s Got Talent who claims that Adele can’t hold a note.
I didn't realise he wasn't a MD so my mistake there and hands up. That being said as you have acknowledged he does still have a Master of Science in health science so is more than enough qualified to give a general opinion.
I have watched many of his videos throughout the pandemic and have found him knowlegable, informative and pretty honest. I have now re-watched the video and I really don't think your assessment is fair. Yes he does draw some correlations but not at any time does he arrive at any firm conclusions, he suggests a number of plausible explantions on Japan but doesn't make any definite claims. regarding why SARS disappeared he again gives a possible explanation but nothing definitive.
My original post was made with honest intentions, I genuinely thought it was a good news Covid story and a quite unique one that people would find interesting. Having had time to reflect I am still genuinely baffled as to why it generated such vitriol and why the post was removed.
I actually have a science background and know how to read scientific papers which is why I have posted them previously in the safe knowledge they were legitimate. I don't know what your exact background is Stokie, but it is clear you have some scientific knowledge also.
I believe that you know full well that claiming anything definitive about Japan at this stage is unscientific and that includes attributing it to vaccines and masks without having full and rigorous evidence to support that conclusion. So I am left wondering why you let other posters arrive at that conclusion without any sort of challenge at all?
The rest of this post goes to the board in general. I have been insulted today, I have had my views censored, been called a 'dangerous idiot' and told to 'stick to football' all for making a genuine post that I thought people might be interested in. I had to log off earlier on because I felt like I was being attacked from all angles. I really wish people would stop and think sometimes before they type because there is a person behind every user on this site and yes, sometimes what you say can really upset somebody in real life.
I have only been posting here for a few months but the pack mentality at times is really quite ugly, everybody seems to wade in to get a piece of the action when they sense that somebody is on the ropes. I have no doubt I will be ridiculed further for this and told I am 'playing the victim' etc.
The biggest irony is that the main posters handing out the abuse and nastiness are often the ones that post about mental health issues and about being kind to one another. Is it really so important to win the argument and shut down somebody else's point of view because it doesn't correspond exactly with your own?
I know that I have something worthwhile to contribute to covid and science debates on here, however it is clear that my views on this subject are not welcome by most and will only be met with future abuse which admin are seemingly quite happy to ignore from certain posters despite blatantly breaking the rules of the site. So I will refrain from posting any more non football content. If you want an echo chamber where everybody agrees and any alternative views are bullied and censored into silence, then perhaps that is what you deserve, but I can tell you now that is never a healthy thing in the long run.
Ok let me dissect your post in a quick summary.
* You didn't realise the qualifications of the person you were debating on. Despite Stokie calling this out you are now doubling down that his qualifications make his voice worth listening to. Ok I have a B.Sc so naturally I am qualified in talking about immunology/epidemiology etc etc as of course I am an expert in these areas.
* You have watched many of his videos and found them knowledgeable, informative and pretty honest. Awesome!!! What does any of that mean in reality? You do realise how social media misinformation works don't you? None of this is about how it makes you feel, it's about science and educating yourself. Watching some YouTube videos just because they fit your narrative doesn't make any of it science. This is the very definition of falling into the rabbit hole * I have been insulted today - No you haven't you have posted your narrative and other posters have been IMHO extremely patient in debating this. You have once again been completely pushing your own viewpoint instead of engaging in reasoned discussion. * When you step back and pause, no one is bullying you. The reaction you are receiving is because you are continue to double down on your views and not open to counter debate. Instead of spouting carp like "echo chambers" etc and acting the wounded party..why not engage with posters in an honest discussion?
I didn't realise he wasn't a MD so my mistake there and hands up. That being said as you have acknowledged he does still have a Master of Science in health science so is more than enough qualified to give a general opinion.
I have watched many of his videos throughout the pandemic and have found him knowlegable, informative and pretty honest. I have now re-watched the video and I really don't think your assessment is fair. Yes he does draw some correlations but not at any time does he arrive at any firm conclusions, he suggests a number of plausible explantions on Japan but doesn't make any definite claims. regarding why SARS disappeared he again gives a possible explanation but nothing definitive.
My original post was made with honest intentions, I genuinely thought it was a good news Covid story and a quite unique one that people would find interesting. Having had time to reflect I am still genuinely baffled as to why it generated such vitriol and why the post was removed.
I actually have a science background and know how to read scientific papers which is why I have posted them previously in the safe knowledge they were legitimate. I don't know what your exact background is Stokie, but it is clear you have some scientific knowledge also.
I believe that you know full well that claiming anything definitive about Japan at this stage is unscientific and that includes attributing it to vaccines and masks without having full and rigorous evidence to support that conclusion. So I am left wondering why you let other posters arrive at that conclusion without any sort of challenge at all?
The rest of this post goes to the board in general. I have been insulted today, I have had my views censored, been called a 'dangerous idiot' and told to 'stick to football' all for making a genuine post that I thought people might be interested in. I had to log off earlier on because I felt like I was being attacked from all angles. I really wish people would stop and think sometimes before they type because there is a person behind every user on this site and yes, sometimes what you say can really upset somebody in real life.
I have only been posting here for a few months but the pack mentality at times is really quite ugly, everybody seems to wade in to get a piece of the action when they sense that somebody is on the ropes. I have no doubt I will be ridiculed further for this and told I am 'playing the victim' etc.
The biggest irony is that the main posters handing out the abuse and nastiness are often the ones that post about mental health issues and about being kind to one another. Is it really so important to win the argument and shut down somebody else's point of view because it doesn't correspond exactly with your own?
I know that I have something worthwhile to contribute to covid and science debates on here, however it is clear that my views on this subject are not welcome by most and will only be met with future abuse which admin are seemingly quite happy to ignore from certain posters despite blatantly breaking the rules of the site. So I will refrain from posting any more non football content. If you want an echo chamber where everybody agrees and any alternative views are bullied and censored into silence, then perhaps that is what you deserve, but I can tell you now that is never a healthy thing in the long run.
I'm just going to address this snippet directed specifically at me:
"I believe that you know full well that claiming anything definitive about Japan at this stage is unscientific and that includes attributing it to vaccines and masks without having full and rigorous evidence to support that conclusion. So I am left wondering why you let other posters arrive at that conclusion without any sort of challenge at all?"
To me, this is a very strange take.
We have many studies, both peer reviewed and pending which show that vaccines are effecting and that mask wearing reduces transmission. The people replying to you were replying from a grounding in robust and reviewed science which is applicable to the situation in Japan given there is nothing to suggest the position there is exceptional. Given this why would I have an issue with their postings?
You are the one who made an assertion that the situation in Japan is somehow different to the situation elsewhere and thus the burden of proof is on your to backup the assertion which differs from the already established science.
Complaining that the people of the viewpoint grounded in science aren't being treated in the same way as those making assertions based on very poor evidence that differ from the currently agreed science isn't the way these things work and looks like an attempt to muddy the waters around the covid debate.
Me too. I was forced to after being the Pirate King in a school production of Pirates of Penzance in year 6. I probably wouldn’t comment on anybody’s singing technique though. I definitely wouldn’t post tweets from somebody who had an audition on Britain’s Got Talent who claims that Adele can’t hold a note.
Well, quite.
And yet there's still a vocal minority on here who question Morrissey's credentials... Really makes ya think.
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
I'm just going to address this snippet directed specifically at me:
"I believe that you know full well that claiming anything definitive about Japan at this stage is unscientific and that includes attributing it to vaccines and masks without having full and rigorous evidence to support that conclusion. So I am left wondering why you let other posters arrive at that conclusion without any sort of challenge at all?"
To me, this is a very strange take.
We have many studies, both peer reviewed and pending which show that vaccines are effecting and that mask wearing reduces transmission. The people replying to you were replying from a grounding in robust and reviewed science which is applicable to the situation in Japan given there is nothing to suggest the position there is exceptional. Given this why would I have an issue with their postings?
You are the one who made an assertion that the situation in Japan is somehow different to the situation elsewhere and thus the burden of proof is on your to backup the assertion which differs from the already established science.
Complaining that the people of the viewpoint grounded in science aren't being treated in the same way as those making assertions based on very poor evidence that differ from the currently agreed science isn't the way these things work and looks like an attempt to muddy the waters around the covid debate.
SB
Another point- even sparse date warrants scientific analysis. But what is so important is that there is adequate uncertainty quantification, and proper communication of that uncertainty. Ok I should probably shut up before I reveal my secret identity.
Another point- even sparse date warrants scientific analysis. But what is so important is that there is adequate uncertainty quantification, and proper communication of that uncertainty. Ok I should probably shut up before I reveal my secret identity.
Did you actually read the post or just see what you wanted to see?
There was no initial claim at all, there was a question which was a perfectly valid one seeing as Japan has seen a sudden and dramatic reduction in both cases and deaths.
The virus mutation quote was from a University professor in Japan and was one possible explanation. The video was a reputable UK medical Doctor looking at the possible reasons, no claims were made about Ivermectin, just the observation of a correlation.
I don't know if you know how science works but usually a correlation is observed and then further research is carried out to see whether correlation equals causation. It is not a crime to speak of the observation of the initial correlation.
Speaking of correlation not equalling causation.....
The vaccine and mask compliance was discussed in the video and discounted because neighbouring South Korea has seen the complete opposite ( ie. a massive rise in cases ), despite a similar level of vaccine uptake and similar habits around masking etc. It is completely unscientific to just say 'ah that'll be the vaccine then' without actually having any evidence to support that position.
But hey don't let the truth get in the way of a good old emotional rant against a ( fully vaccinated ) anti-vaxxer.
I didn't see the thread that was deleted as I was out, but your comment "I don't know if you know how science works", directed at someone who's a qualified, experienced, senior, nurse, who's regularly posted on here some of his experiences in that profession over at least 2 years, is either incredibly patronising or rather telling in showing the level of your inability or unwillingness to do the most basic of research.
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