| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy 17:16 - Dec 12 with 5019 views | brazil1981 |
I don’t usually watch so I’m no expert…
However seems like the stewards stitched Hamilton up like a kipper there! Bit like being 5-0 up in last minute and ref goes “next goal wins”!
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:21 - Dec 13 with 689 views | PhilTWTD |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 20:55 - Dec 12 by Herbivore |
Had they taken an earlier decision that all the cars could unlap themselves, which they probably should have, the net result would have been the same and Max would still have won. |
Not true, for two reasons, as I understand it. One, the could only unlap themselves when it was safe to do so, ie when the mess had been cleared up, and, two, the safety car is meant to be out for another lap after the lapped cars have overtaken the frontrunners, but this was also ignored by the race director. Therefore, the race should have ended under the safety car. |  | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:23 - Dec 13 with 678 views | chrismakin |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:18 - Dec 13 by Price_1991 |
Completely agree with this.
Masi has "engineered" the race result. There are 2 options I feel he should have taken which wouldn't have caused this issue. The first is he red flags the race when Latifi crashes therefore allowing ALL cars to have a free pit stop and put on fresh rubber that way both Hamilton and Verstappen would have put the softs on for a 5 lap shoot out so to speak. The other option he had if he didn't want to red flag the race is leave the lapped cars in between Hamilton and Verstappen who once the track was back to being green again would have all received blue flags to move out of the way which would have happened in the first part of the lap leaving the two drivers to race for the final section of the track.
Masi has a lot to answer for however I can't see the FIA changing their mind as they will basically be blaming themselves and saying we got it wrong which they will never do. What I can see is Masi potentially being removed as Race Director going forward. |
There's so much more to it too
Sainz not being allowed to fight the front 2 with his own set of fresh softs.. and Tsnoda too could have tried to get a podium place.
Also.. to retire a car in the last race there has to be a mechanical issue.. you can't retire a car to 'save' engine. There's been 0 from redbull about what was wrong with the car.. if nothing... did they retire him so that he wasn't infront of max when the race restarted.. meaning RB knew 2 laps before Mercedes that there would be 1 last lap.. |  |
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:28 - Dec 13 with 663 views | jonbull88 |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 14:11 - Dec 13 by chrismakin |
Can tell you don't follow the sport based on this.
Which part of fia changing regulations in the summer to suit redbull car set up over Mercedes shows that they favour merc? Merc literally had to rip up half of their car set up a month before the season started. |
Just like merc complaining about sub 2 seconds pitstops, when red bull mastered these and it was merc who never did that bodged their own stops 🤣🤣 | | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:29 - Dec 13 with 659 views | Price_1991 |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:23 - Dec 13 by chrismakin |
There's so much more to it too
Sainz not being allowed to fight the front 2 with his own set of fresh softs.. and Tsnoda too could have tried to get a podium place.
Also.. to retire a car in the last race there has to be a mechanical issue.. you can't retire a car to 'save' engine. There's been 0 from redbull about what was wrong with the car.. if nothing... did they retire him so that he wasn't infront of max when the race restarted.. meaning RB knew 2 laps before Mercedes that there would be 1 last lap.. |
Exactly, also what was the point in "saving" the engine in the last race of the season if it goes bang during the race then so be it its not like the engine will be used next season.
The whole thing just stinks really and means the season ended on a sour note rather than one of racing between the two best drivers on the grid. Both deserved to win the championship but that was taken out of their hands.
Maybe it was Jean Todt who told Masi to do what he did so that Schumacher's 7 titles didn't get beaten? | | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:30 - Dec 13 with 661 views | jonbull88 |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:06 - Dec 13 by chrismakin |
If finishing behind the safety car. Redbull wouldn't even have complained and neither would max. They certainly wouldn't have come out and said but massy could have changed the rules.. it would have just just Lewis lead 58 laps he deserved it. Bit of a question on the first corner incident but that was already resolved. |
It’s toto crying over the radio that the race should finish behind the safety car that bugs me. Merc gambled and tried to pressure masi to do that, unfortunately their run of very good luck came unstuck! | | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:34 - Dec 13 with 646 views | Herbivore |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:21 - Dec 13 by PhilTWTD |
Not true, for two reasons, as I understand it. One, the could only unlap themselves when it was safe to do so, ie when the mess had been cleared up, and, two, the safety car is meant to be out for another lap after the lapped cars have overtaken the frontrunners, but this was also ignored by the race director. Therefore, the race should have ended under the safety car. |
The track was clear at least a lap sooner than they restarted the race so they didn't need to leave it as late as they did to instruct the cars to unlap themselves. That would have meant the race could still have restarted. Surprised to see people wanting a race to finish under the safety car to be honest, wouldn't have been a great ending to the season. |  |
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:34 - Dec 13 with 645 views | Price_1991 |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:30 - Dec 13 by jonbull88 |
It’s toto crying over the radio that the race should finish behind the safety car that bugs me. Merc gambled and tried to pressure masi to do that, unfortunately their run of very good luck came unstuck! |
Much like Horner crying saying we only need one more lap?!
The rules state that any lapped cars can unlap themselves, it shouldn't have been the cars in between Hamilton and Verstappen can unlap themselves but the rest have to suck it up and be a lap down and when cars unlap themselves the saftey car must do another lap which they didn't. | | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:41 - Dec 13 with 629 views | chrismakin |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:28 - Dec 13 by jonbull88 |
Just like merc complaining about sub 2 seconds pitstops, when red bull mastered these and it was merc who never did that bodged their own stops 🤣🤣 |
Another myth
The reasons why pitstops were amended was the confusion around automatic and manual signs showing the driver wen to get going again. There were over a handful of occasions where the cars were either being released too early and wheels not being put on correctly before being let go, and also cars being stuck due to red light failers.
The last straw was an pit guy being injured as the car went before it should have Gone. | |
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:46 - Dec 13 with 626 views | chrismakin |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:30 - Dec 13 by jonbull88 |
It’s toto crying over the radio that the race should finish behind the safety car that bugs me. Merc gambled and tried to pressure masi to do that, unfortunately their run of very good luck came unstuck! |
They were right.
Lewis leading 54 laps and by 11 seconds was in a horrid position as first driver. Had they pitted him first. Redbull would have just stayed out. In all previous races.. the race finished behind the safety car... redbull would have won it.
As said earlier in the thread. 1 person had the power to choose who won the championship. There was nothing mercs could have done to change how it ended. Massy played God and his personal preference in winner won. Its literally as simple as that.
If not. Why no red flag. Why no 4 way battle last lap.
Why just Lewis v verstappen on 44 lap hards v 2 lap softs
1 reason. 'Drive to survive | |
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:48 - Dec 13 with 623 views | PhilTWTD |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:34 - Dec 13 by Herbivore |
The track was clear at least a lap sooner than they restarted the race so they didn't need to leave it as late as they did to instruct the cars to unlap themselves. That would have meant the race could still have restarted. Surprised to see people wanting a race to finish under the safety car to be honest, wouldn't have been a great ending to the season. |
But would have been one which would have been within the rules. If the track had been cleared and marshalls were back in place, then not sure why they didn't get the lapped cars unlapping themselves earlier, would assume that wasn't the case or there was further incompetence. | | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:53 - Dec 13 with 609 views | Herbivore |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:48 - Dec 13 by PhilTWTD |
But would have been one which would have been within the rules. If the track had been cleared and marshalls were back in place, then not sure why they didn't get the lapped cars unlapping themselves earlier, would assume that wasn't the case or there was further incompetence. |
It was pressure from Mercedes I imagine, both teams were in the ear of race control trying to influence them. It was a messy situation, I don't think any of the ways it could have played out would have felt entirely satisfactory. If they'd finished under a safety car when the track had been clear for 2 laps that wouldn't have been right either. | |
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:03 - Dec 13 with 585 views | chrismakin |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:53 - Dec 13 by Herbivore |
It was pressure from Mercedes I imagine, both teams were in the ear of race control trying to influence them. It was a messy situation, I don't think any of the ways it could have played out would have felt entirely satisfactory. If they'd finished under a safety car when the track had been clear for 2 laps that wouldn't have been right either. |
What would have been right was to follow exactly why has been done the last 8 times the safety car came out at the end of a race. The race ends behind safety car.
There would have been 0 complaints.
Lap 57 track clear. OK allow all lapped cars to overtake.. the safety car comes in a lap later as per all other races and to the rules. end of race.
Funny now. Situ happened last year and massy spoke of lapped cars in that situ and said any lapped cars meant all.
But now... when it suits. Any doesn't mean all....
[Post edited 13 Dec 2021 16:17]
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:04 - Dec 13 with 582 views | jonbull88 |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:41 - Dec 13 by chrismakin |
Another myth
The reasons why pitstops were amended was the confusion around automatic and manual signs showing the driver wen to get going again. There were over a handful of occasions where the cars were either being released too early and wheels not being put on correctly before being let go, and also cars being stuck due to red light failers.
The last straw was an pit guy being injured as the car went before it should have Gone. |
Another myth? It was merc that wanted the rule change. Red bull were the masters at sun 2 second stops, and how many issues did they have…0! It was merc and other teams that fluffed their stops and it was mercs way of getting rid of red bull advantage! | | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:04 - Dec 13 with 580 views | Herbivore |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:03 - Dec 13 by chrismakin |
What would have been right was to follow exactly why has been done the last 8 times the safety car came out at the end of a race. The race ends behind safety car.
There would have been 0 complaints.
Lap 57 track clear. OK allow all lapped cars to overtake.. the safety car comes in a lap later as per all other races and to the rules. end of race.
Funny now. Situ happened last year and massy spoke of lapped cars in that situ and said any lapped cars meant all.
But now... when it suits. Any doesn't mean all....
[Post edited 13 Dec 2021 16:17]
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Nah. | |
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:06 - Dec 13 with 581 views | Wickets |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 19:25 - Dec 12 by chrismakin |
Incorrect
Lap 54 you would have imagined that the race would end under safety car like many others had. Lewis couldn't have pitted first as verstappen would have stayed out.. had the race finished under safety car as it should have done.. then max would have won behind it.. so no Lewis couldn't have pitted.
The race director was the only person in a position to decide who won the championship.
Either the guy who had lead every lap for 54 laps and had an 11 second lead. Or the 2nd place driver who had fresh soft tyres on against a 44 lap old set of hards.
Massey as an individual screwed Lewis. There's not even a fineline.
So he wanted to restart the race... fine. Do it like others... keep lapped cars in their places. Verstappen restarts the race 11 seconds behind with 1 lap to go.
But no. He screwed him over. |
I was going to keep quiet as i'm no expert either but your post was my thought exactly . |  | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:07 - Dec 13 with 580 views | jonbull88 |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:03 - Dec 13 by chrismakin |
What would have been right was to follow exactly why has been done the last 8 times the safety car came out at the end of a race. The race ends behind safety car.
There would have been 0 complaints.
Lap 57 track clear. OK allow all lapped cars to overtake.. the safety car comes in a lap later as per all other races and to the rules. end of race.
Funny now. Situ happened last year and massy spoke of lapped cars in that situ and said any lapped cars meant all.
But now... when it suits. Any doesn't mean all....
[Post edited 13 Dec 2021 16:17]
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The rule also used was the safety car finishing rule. It was stated by I believe Croft on sky F1 that when they announce the cars coming in it must do so on that lap. | | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:08 - Dec 13 with 579 views | chrismakin |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:04 - Dec 13 by jonbull88 |
Another myth? It was merc that wanted the rule change. Red bull were the masters at sun 2 second stops, and how many issues did they have…0! It was merc and other teams that fluffed their stops and it was mercs way of getting rid of red bull advantage! |
Yes it's a myth
And redbull did fluff Pitstops at times too. | |
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:08 - Dec 13 with 577 views | tonybied |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 15:53 - Dec 13 by Herbivore |
It was pressure from Mercedes I imagine, both teams were in the ear of race control trying to influence them. It was a messy situation, I don't think any of the ways it could have played out would have felt entirely satisfactory. If they'd finished under a safety car when the track had been clear for 2 laps that wouldn't have been right either. |
As a couple of posters have mentioned already a red flag and restart would've been a much fairer way to end the race allowing all drivers a chance to improve/hold their position. The decision taken was either completely biased or massively incompetent. |  | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:12 - Dec 13 with 570 views | chrismakin |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:07 - Dec 13 by jonbull88 |
The rule also used was the safety car finishing rule. It was stated by I believe Croft on sky F1 that when they announce the cars coming in it must do so on that lap. |
This is why if merc do take it to court they would win.
Whilst technically once announced the safety car does indeed have to come in that lap.. however that in itself is a broken rule.. bringing in the safety car had to be done a lap after the lapped cars came in so the announcement shouldn't have been made.
The superseding stuff the stewards brought out doesn't hold anything. As there is no directive that shows what rules supercedes others.
I don't think merc will take it to court. I expect massy to resign as a sacking would show the fia agree he failed.
I also.expect the fia to donate generously behind the scenes. | |
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:34 - Dec 13 with 545 views | Herbivore |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:08 - Dec 13 by tonybied |
As a couple of posters have mentioned already a red flag and restart would've been a much fairer way to end the race allowing all drivers a chance to improve/hold their position. The decision taken was either completely biased or massively incompetent. |
I'm not at all convinced the incident warranted a red flag, so that also would have represented a manipulation of the rules. | |
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:42 - Dec 13 with 535 views | chrismakin |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:34 - Dec 13 by Herbivore |
I'm not at all convinced the incident warranted a red flag, so that also would have represented a manipulation of the rules. |
Funnily enough the rules state the race director can decide when to suspend the race. That's a rule that was available to him. But a red would have still put cars between Lewis and max. Unless they did a standing start. But it's masi so who knows. [Post edited 13 Dec 2021 16:44]
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:45 - Dec 13 with 531 views | bluejacko |
TBH before the race my other half said that she would not be surprised at all to see mad max take Hamilton out as nearly happened at turn 6 wasn’t it.
This season has been nothing but moaning and bitching between both teams and they have not done the sport any favours with their behaviour at all.
Result standing or changed it will still leave a sour taste. | | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:45 - Dec 13 with 532 views | Herbivore |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:42 - Dec 13 by chrismakin |
Funnily enough the rules state the race director can decide when to suspend the race. That's a rule that was available to him. But a red would have still put cars between Lewis and max. Unless they did a standing start. But it's masi so who knows. [Post edited 13 Dec 2021 16:44]
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The rules give the race director a lot of discretion generally, hence Mercedes' protest yesterday not coming to anything. | |
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| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 17:13 - Dec 13 with 512 views | tonybied |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 16:34 - Dec 13 by Herbivore |
I'm not at all convinced the incident warranted a red flag, so that also would have represented a manipulation of the rules. |
...but would've been the only fair way to go racing again if the FIA really wanted the race finishing under competitive conditions. What transpired was totally manufactured. Besides the race director has happily pulled out the red flag at plenty of occasions in the last 2 seasons that were not more serious than this crash.
I am a Lewis fan but I was more than happy to see Max win this championship fairly, Max clearly has the talent of a champion, he might cross the line fairly often but there's no denying he's the real deal. Lewis was a lot more feisty than he is now at Max's age and much as Lewis has I expect he will calm a little note he has a championship to his name. | | | |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 17:26 - Dec 13 with 502 views | jonbull88 |
| F1 Grand Prix - football analogy on 17:13 - Dec 13 by tonybied |
...but would've been the only fair way to go racing again if the FIA really wanted the race finishing under competitive conditions. What transpired was totally manufactured. Besides the race director has happily pulled out the red flag at plenty of occasions in the last 2 seasons that were not more serious than this crash.
I am a Lewis fan but I was more than happy to see Max win this championship fairly, Max clearly has the talent of a champion, he might cross the line fairly often but there's no denying he's the real deal. Lewis was a lot more feisty than he is now at Max's age and much as Lewis has I expect he will calm a little note he has a championship to his name. |
The problem with the red is it would be impossible to throw it straight away. Even if it only takes 30 seconds, many cars would have pitted for tyres and have lost track position already, giving an unfair advantage to other teams that think a safety car is sufficient and that the race would finish behind said car. | | | |
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