| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! 11:09 - Jan 10 with 3071 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Probably the most exciting space-thing in my lifetime, just ahead of the Mars rover. Question for me is not about the stars it discovers when it reaches the L2 insertion, but will it discover alien life? Currently it looks like we'll be unable to travel far enough to discover it that way... so 'looking' might be our best bet? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 19:04 - Jan 10 with 973 views | Darth_Koont |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 14:12 - Jan 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yep, although if we don't colonise space we're likely to die on this planet (by "we" I mean all things on Earth). Not just for the fact that the sun is finite either... we'll likely have destroyed the planet long before that goes. |
We’re all going to die. Not just as individuals but as a species.
The question is what do we evolve into as a way of surviving. And why. I don’t think hauling around ourselves the galaxy as sacks of meat is a useful aim.
It would be nice to think evolution eventually leads to a god-like status and pure mathematical existence. Then we create a new universe. I think that’s the eternal cycle. |  |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 19:25 - Jan 10 with 952 views | Darth_Koont |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 17:05 - Jan 10 by Guthrum |
Tho if we're thinking of living in pods on other celestial bodies, we may as well build them here on Earth. It's cheaper, closer and quicker, so more can be saved.
Even the worst-case climate change scenarios predict considerably milder environments than those on the Moon or Mars. |
Indeed.
I think that idea took hold when Bush Jr (whose power, influence and money came from the fossil fuel industry) suggested that we could always colonise Mars. But it’s the single worst solution when we’re on Earth already. Terraforming Mars would cost unimaginably more money and even then it’s many, many generations in the future.
I think sci-fi has a lot to answer for. The suggestion that we could travel between worlds and colonise is nonsensical given the sheer scale. If it takes 20,000 years to reach our next nearest star (even 4.2 years if we could do it at the speed of light) it ain’t happening.
Maybe in a few centuries we can manipulate space and time to really explore our nearest solar systems but chances are that what we do in the next 10-30 years on Earth will define our continued existence as a species. | |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 20:12 - Jan 10 with 925 views | jeera |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 14:31 - Jan 10 by Guthrum |
Earth orbit bases make a lot more sense.
Less far to haul everything you need. Zero gravity allows different construction methods (no cranes needed). No issues with having to land and take off again.
For building stuff on the Moon, you'd need to launch pretty much everything from Earth and take it there. Mining and ore processing equipment tends to be very heavy. Then there is the matter of fuel (no organic hydrocarbons) and nights lasting the best part of 14 Earth days (no solar power). |
Well you've completely ruined my memories of Space 1999 for me. |  |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 20:19 - Jan 10 with 913 views | jeera |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 19:04 - Jan 10 by Darth_Koont |
We’re all going to die. Not just as individuals but as a species.
The question is what do we evolve into as a way of surviving. And why. I don’t think hauling around ourselves the galaxy as sacks of meat is a useful aim.
It would be nice to think evolution eventually leads to a god-like status and pure mathematical existence. Then we create a new universe. I think that’s the eternal cycle. |
Maybe if the Universe continues to curve in on itself, in another 40 billion years or so, people will practically be able to pop to the planet next door.
Possibly enabled by one of Johnson's descendants designing a seemingly unrealistic bridge. | |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 20:26 - Jan 10 with 905 views | Darth_Koont |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 20:19 - Jan 10 by jeera |
Maybe if the Universe continues to curve in on itself, in another 40 billion years or so, people will practically be able to pop to the planet next door.
Possibly enabled by one of Johnson's descendants designing a seemingly unrealistic bridge. |
Johnson is a twig on the evolutionary tree that’s going to bear no fruit. He’s destroying the Old Etonian establishment brand.
Jeez. He might actually be a force for good. | |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 21:15 - Jan 10 with 887 views | XYZ |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 19:25 - Jan 10 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
I think that idea took hold when Bush Jr (whose power, influence and money came from the fossil fuel industry) suggested that we could always colonise Mars. But it’s the single worst solution when we’re on Earth already. Terraforming Mars would cost unimaginably more money and even then it’s many, many generations in the future.
I think sci-fi has a lot to answer for. The suggestion that we could travel between worlds and colonise is nonsensical given the sheer scale. If it takes 20,000 years to reach our next nearest star (even 4.2 years if we could do it at the speed of light) it ain’t happening.
Maybe in a few centuries we can manipulate space and time to really explore our nearest solar systems but chances are that what we do in the next 10-30 years on Earth will define our continued existence as a species. |
Armando Iannucci has a lot to answer for.
Some serious misunderstanding of human biology and evolution going on here.
Earth made us; Earth owns us. |  | | |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 21:25 - Jan 10 with 873 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
I went to a talk about the search for exoplanets at Kielder observatory. They were very excited about JWST - it’s going to be a Gamechanger! | | | |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 21:49 - Jan 10 with 856 views | stonojnr |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 19:25 - Jan 10 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
I think that idea took hold when Bush Jr (whose power, influence and money came from the fossil fuel industry) suggested that we could always colonise Mars. But it’s the single worst solution when we’re on Earth already. Terraforming Mars would cost unimaginably more money and even then it’s many, many generations in the future.
I think sci-fi has a lot to answer for. The suggestion that we could travel between worlds and colonise is nonsensical given the sheer scale. If it takes 20,000 years to reach our next nearest star (even 4.2 years if we could do it at the speed of light) it ain’t happening.
Maybe in a few centuries we can manipulate space and time to really explore our nearest solar systems but chances are that what we do in the next 10-30 years on Earth will define our continued existence as a species. |
the ideas of colonising Mars have been around since before George Bush Jnr was even born, Werner von Braun wrote a thesis of it in the late 40s, Bush certainly didnt come up with anything that NASA hadnt been assessing for decades and had detailed plans for, before he got in the White House.
thats the reason popular culture in the 70s were showing Mars missions as viable things, its because it was the assumed immediate next step from Apollo, literally as man landed on the moon von Braun had already started work on designing the next rockets to go Mars, powered by nuclear engines, with the intention to send astronauts to the Mars surface in 1982 and have a Mars base setup by 1989.
Nixon canned the whole thing for budget, apart from the Space shuttle which had been designed to shift cargo between Earth and the Mars mission rockets so they didnt pay the launch weight cost of heavy lift taking it all up in one go, and it became this compromised cargo carrier to low earth orbit.
whilst I wouldnt necessarily bet your life savings on it, I do believe humans could be living on Mars within the next 30-40 years. | | | |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 08:52 - Jan 11 with 797 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 19:25 - Jan 10 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
I think that idea took hold when Bush Jr (whose power, influence and money came from the fossil fuel industry) suggested that we could always colonise Mars. But it’s the single worst solution when we’re on Earth already. Terraforming Mars would cost unimaginably more money and even then it’s many, many generations in the future.
I think sci-fi has a lot to answer for. The suggestion that we could travel between worlds and colonise is nonsensical given the sheer scale. If it takes 20,000 years to reach our next nearest star (even 4.2 years if we could do it at the speed of light) it ain’t happening.
Maybe in a few centuries we can manipulate space and time to really explore our nearest solar systems but chances are that what we do in the next 10-30 years on Earth will define our continued existence as a species. |
You've ridiculed the suggestion we could travel between worlds and then answered how it might be done in the same post!
Saying stuff can't be done based on what we know now is akin to saying "everything that can be invented has been invented."
Also, moving stuff to Mars isn't the end goal, it's a step in our learning. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 08:54 - Jan 11 with 797 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 17:05 - Jan 10 by Guthrum |
Tho if we're thinking of living in pods on other celestial bodies, we may as well build them here on Earth. It's cheaper, closer and quicker, so more can be saved.
Even the worst-case climate change scenarios predict considerably milder environments than those on the Moon or Mars. |
The Moon and Mars aren't the goal. The goal is to find an Earth-like planet. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 10:05 - Jan 11 with 763 views | abracaDOBRA_ |
I find this stuff really interesting but it blows my mind at the same time. Seen someone say its aim isnt to look for life, but it is. It will look at what exoplanets atmospheres are made of, plus will be able to see if any of these distant planets had water etc on them (probably all extinct now though).
Guess everyone knows of this, but this website is pretty cool. Gives you its whereabouts
https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html [Post edited 11 Jan 2022 10:08]
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 10:17 - Jan 11 with 756 views | Darth_Koont |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 08:52 - Jan 11 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You've ridiculed the suggestion we could travel between worlds and then answered how it might be done in the same post!
Saying stuff can't be done based on what we know now is akin to saying "everything that can be invented has been invented."
Also, moving stuff to Mars isn't the end goal, it's a step in our learning. |
I avoided saying it couldn’t be done on purpose. But if visiting even the closest stars within the next 50 years involves us travelling 100 million kmh (1/10 of the speed of light), or us inventing teleportation devices/time travel, then it’s way, way off in a very distant future.
It’s good to have them as dreams and a “Why not?”. But it’s theoretical and nothing to plan for without radically new technology.
And I fear the space colony fantasy doesn’t particularly help us address the very high probability that our existence is bound to the Earth for many centuries to come. | |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 10:23 - Jan 11 with 743 views | Keno |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 10:17 - Jan 11 by Darth_Koont |
I avoided saying it couldn’t be done on purpose. But if visiting even the closest stars within the next 50 years involves us travelling 100 million kmh (1/10 of the speed of light), or us inventing teleportation devices/time travel, then it’s way, way off in a very distant future.
It’s good to have them as dreams and a “Why not?”. But it’s theoretical and nothing to plan for without radically new technology.
And I fear the space colony fantasy doesn’t particularly help us address the very high probability that our existence is bound to the Earth for many centuries to come. |
A friend of mine claimed to have discovered a time travel device a few weeks ago, that took him back 30 years
Apparently he had just travelled through Diss |  |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 10:28 - Jan 11 with 741 views | StokieBlue |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 19:25 - Jan 10 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
I think that idea took hold when Bush Jr (whose power, influence and money came from the fossil fuel industry) suggested that we could always colonise Mars. But it’s the single worst solution when we’re on Earth already. Terraforming Mars would cost unimaginably more money and even then it’s many, many generations in the future.
I think sci-fi has a lot to answer for. The suggestion that we could travel between worlds and colonise is nonsensical given the sheer scale. If it takes 20,000 years to reach our next nearest star (even 4.2 years if we could do it at the speed of light) it ain’t happening.
Maybe in a few centuries we can manipulate space and time to really explore our nearest solar systems but chances are that what we do in the next 10-30 years on Earth will define our continued existence as a species. |
Just a quick tangential point.
The real issue about going anywhere in a "reasonable" amount of time is that our drives aren't able to use constant acceleration. Moves to electrical based plasma drives coupled with reactors or solar sails allow constant acceleration and hugely decrease travel times.
Obviously it'll still take ages to get anywhere but it does become somewhat feasible within then next century or so.
As you say, we may have royally messed things up on Earth by then anyway, it's not some silver bullet around our problems.
SB |  | | |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 10:37 - Jan 11 with 737 views | Darth_Koont |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 21:49 - Jan 10 by stonojnr |
the ideas of colonising Mars have been around since before George Bush Jnr was even born, Werner von Braun wrote a thesis of it in the late 40s, Bush certainly didnt come up with anything that NASA hadnt been assessing for decades and had detailed plans for, before he got in the White House.
thats the reason popular culture in the 70s were showing Mars missions as viable things, its because it was the assumed immediate next step from Apollo, literally as man landed on the moon von Braun had already started work on designing the next rockets to go Mars, powered by nuclear engines, with the intention to send astronauts to the Mars surface in 1982 and have a Mars base setup by 1989.
Nixon canned the whole thing for budget, apart from the Space shuttle which had been designed to shift cargo between Earth and the Mars mission rockets so they didnt pay the launch weight cost of heavy lift taking it all up in one go, and it became this compromised cargo carrier to low earth orbit.
whilst I wouldnt necessarily bet your life savings on it, I do believe humans could be living on Mars within the next 30-40 years. |
Agreed. It’s been around but I was thinking more about when Bush seemed to lift it as a semi-official and semi-serious solution to environmental concerns on Earth.
I think you may well be right re: some form of manned Mars station in the next 30-40 years. But I don’t see any actual colonisation for centuries. And probably never as our priorities will likely change – it will become as pointless as colonising Antarctica or the ocean floor. | |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 10:54 - Jan 11 with 714 views | Darth_Koont |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 10:28 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
Just a quick tangential point.
The real issue about going anywhere in a "reasonable" amount of time is that our drives aren't able to use constant acceleration. Moves to electrical based plasma drives coupled with reactors or solar sails allow constant acceleration and hugely decrease travel times.
Obviously it'll still take ages to get anywhere but it does become somewhat feasible within then next century or so.
As you say, we may have royally messed things up on Earth by then anyway, it's not some silver bullet around our problems.
SB |
Oh absolutely. But we’re still talking 40-50 years to get to the nearest star even at those speeds.
We don’t know what breakthroughs we’re going to make but I think it’s always good to overestimate the time and the likelihood for these things happening. The natural conclusion after reaching the moon in 1969 was that we’d have a manned mission to Mars within a couple of decades. But even with phenomenal and unimaginable technology advances after that we’re only starting to address the challenges now.
I think the real wonder is the scale of space and the sheer “uniqueness” and value of our own tiny corner of it. Hopefully the JWST reinforces that rather than bringing space unnaturally close in our minds. That really would be looking through the wrong end of the telescope. | |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 14:36 - Jan 11 with 671 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 10:17 - Jan 11 by Darth_Koont |
I avoided saying it couldn’t be done on purpose. But if visiting even the closest stars within the next 50 years involves us travelling 100 million kmh (1/10 of the speed of light), or us inventing teleportation devices/time travel, then it’s way, way off in a very distant future.
It’s good to have them as dreams and a “Why not?”. But it’s theoretical and nothing to plan for without radically new technology.
And I fear the space colony fantasy doesn’t particularly help us address the very high probability that our existence is bound to the Earth for many centuries to come. |
Planning for it is what leads to radical new technology. Likewise with putting a base on Mars - as I said it's not the goal it's a step in our learning and development (just like flight/putting stuff in space/landing on the moon/Mars rover etc.)
I agree travel to other stars is probably a long way off, but I didn't actually put a time limit on it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 14:44 - Jan 11 with 657 views | footers |
What's the point of all this space malarkey when we haven't even solved the biggest mysteries on Earth, like where missing socks end up? Unless we're positing that there's a planet out there with them all on, in which case I could see the point. |  |
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| The James Webb Telescope is fully deployed! on 15:07 - Jan 11 with 646 views | Samuelowen88 |
A general comment related to a thread a few months ago. The whole, why do we do this argument. What's the every day benefit.
The accuracy required on the mirrors of Webb was so high, that they had to develop a new more accurate laser.
This is now being used to improve eye surgery.
There was a tweet from one of the NASA/ESA/Webb accounts that listed other everyday benefits, but I now cant' find it. |  |
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